Sail Rail BOJ?

[Tav77]

Could anybody help please?

If I wanted to book a sail rail London - Dublin, can I break my journey and stay overnight at Holyhead, or do I have to take the next available ferry when I get there?

Thanks in advance

 

[wintonian]

Due to changes this year all tickets follow the advance format even the so called 'standy by' tickets available on the day.

As such you will have reservations that you must keep to so no break of journey is allowed.

Sent from my HTC Desire S

 

[Tav77]

Thank you for such a swift reply

 

[All Line Rover]

Due to changes this year all tickets follow the advance format even the so called 'standy by' tickets available on the day.

As such you will have reservations that you must keep to so no break of journey is allowed.

Sent from my HTC Desire S

Do the walk-up SailRail fares get issued with reservations? As I thought reservations had to be made at least 2 hours in advance, and it would be silly for someone buying a "walk-up" fare to be expected to wait that long for their train?

 

[embers25]

Technically on the standby ticket there is a grey area as first it says "Reservation is compulsory for the ship leg, and tickets can be purchased
up to departure time of connecting train." but then further down says "Reservations are compulsory on all legs" so whether reservations are compulsory on the rail bit is debatable unless someone has already clarified this elsewhere?

 

[All Line Rover]

Technically on the standby ticket there is a grey area as first it says "Reservation is compulsory for the ship leg, and tickets can be purchased
up to departure time of connecting train." but then further down says "Reservations are compulsory on all legs" so whether reservations are compulsory on the rail bit is debatable unless someone has already clarified this elsewhere?

That's my question, you see. HOW can reservations be compulsory if the ticket can be bought minutes before departure? And if reservations aren't compulsory, does that mean you can take any train? And since it wouldn't be like an Advance ticket, where is BoJ expressly forbidden?

 

[wintonian]

That's my question, you see. HOW can reservations be compulsory if the ticket can be bought minutes before departure? And if reservations aren't compulsory, does that mean you can take any train? And since it wouldn't be like an Advance ticket, where is BoJ expressly forbidden?

This I think is the 60,000$ question, but that was my understanding.

BoJ I believe is now expressly forbidden in in restrictions 6L & 6J for Irish Ferries stand by fares and 6D & 6S for Stena stand by fares.

and no I don't believe the restrictions are in the public domain at present.

 

[embers25]

Break of journey has always been forbidden on these tickets although without compulsory reservations it was hard to enforce. Given no one seems to be able to sell these tickets at the moment it is currently all pretty academic.

 

[All Line Rover]

BoJ I believe is now expressly forbidden in in restrictions 6L & 6J for Irish Ferries stand by fares and 6D & 6S for Stena stand by fares.

and no I don't believe the restrictions are in the public domain at present.

But if the restrictions are not in the public domain (i.e. on NRE), they can't be enforced, especially since I can buy a SailRail ticket online and am told nothing about BoJ being forbidden!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Break of journey has always been forbidden on these tickets although without compulsory reservations it was hard to enforce. Given no one seems to be able to sell these tickets at the moment it is currently all pretty academic.

They can be purchased - if you persist. But it's a complete faff at the moment.

 

[Eire Sprinter]

At Holyhead there's usually a "window" of around half an hour between train arrival and the latest ferry check-in; it is perfectly in order to leave the station without formality (no barriers in any case) and go over to the town via the Celtic Gateway pedestrian bridge at the ferry terminal end of Platform 2. Useful if one needs to go to bank/P.O. briefly or wants a few items of food from the local supermarket - generally more reasonably priced than onboard the ferries. There's also a local tourist office apparently community run (since the one beside the ferry terminal closed over a year ago). Has a good array of local information including Ynys Mon bus timetable. Over the years I've had many a brief visit to the town centre and have found staff in the local shops and businesses invariably courteous and helpful.

 

[wintonian]

But if the restrictions are not in the public domain (i.e. on NRE), they can't be enforced, especially since I can buy a SailRail ticket online and am told nothing about BoJ being forbidden!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They can be purchased - if you persist. But it's a complete faff at the moment.

Thats an improvement then as last tome I tried I got nowhere.

At Holyhead there's usually a "window" of around half an hour between train arrival and the latest ferry check-in; it is perfectly in order to leave the station without formality (no barriers in any case) and go over to the town via the Celtic Gateway pedestrian bridge at the ferry terminal end of Platform 2. Useful if one needs to go to bank/P.O. briefly or wants a few items of food from the local supermarket - generally more reasonably priced than onboard the ferries. There's also a local tourist office apparently community run (since the one beside the ferry terminal closed over a year ago). Has a good array of local information including Ynys Mon bus timetable. Over the years I've had many a brief visit to the town centre and have found staff in the local shops and businesses invariably courteous and helpful.

No, leaving station premises counts as a BoJ, although at Holyhead it might not be that easy to enforce.

Sent from my HTC Desire S

 

[bkhtele]

Could anybody help please?

If I wanted to book a sail rail London - Dublin, can I break my journey and stay overnight at Holyhead, or do I have to take the next available ferry when I get there?

Thanks in advance

I did this Dublin to London last Nov sailed on 8pm Irish ferry and stayed at Holyhead trave lodge then took morning train to London. Much more civilized. I am sure it will work from London. I believe an overnight stop does not count as a BOJ. Think it would need to be an afternoon/evening journey to justufy this. I understand like you the standby ticket will allow this. Suggest you buy it in Euston.

 

[pkkelly]

This I think is the 60,000$ question, but that was my understanding.

BoJ I believe is now expressly forbidden in in restrictions 6L & 6J for Irish Ferries stand by fares and 6D & 6S for Stena stand by fares.

and no I don't believe the restrictions are in the public domain at present.

These are on the Avantix NFM11 CD. BoJ is indeed forbidden, and the previous phrase "Break of journey on rail leg only" has gone.

=====================

Restriction : 6S - 00984 - HOLYHD STENA SHP
Shipping Links Stena Line
Routes 984 & 985.
Ticket type SLD

Outward Travel

Valid on date on ticket.
Valid on Stena Line services
port to port only.
Reservations mandatory on the
ship.
No break of journey except for
connection purposes only.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.
Not valid on Stena Express or
Lynx services.

Return Travel

Valid on date on ticket only.
Valid on Stena Line services
port to port only.
Reservations mandatory on the
ship.
Break of journey permitted in
case of disruption on rail leg
only.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.
Not valid on Stena Express or
Lynx services.


============

Restriction : 6L - 00980 - HLYHD IRISHF CIV
Shipping Links Irish Ferries
Route 980
Ticket type SLD

Outward Travel

Valid on date on ticket.
Valid on Irish Ferriers
services port to port only.
Reservations mandatory on the
ship.
No break of journey except for
connection purposes only.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.
Not valid on Stena Express or
Lynx services.

Return Travel

Valid on date on ticket only.
Valid on Irish Ferries
services port to port only.
Reservations mandatory on the
ship.
Break of journey permitted in
case of disruption on rail leg
only.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.

=============

Restriction : 6D - 00983 - HLYHD STENA CIV
Shipping Links Stena Line
Route 983
Ticket type SLD

Outward Travel

Valid on date on ticket.
Valid on Stena Line services
port to port only.
Reservations mandatory on the
ship.
No break of journey except for
connection purposes only.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.

Return Travel

Valid on date on ticket only.
Valid on Stena Line services
port to port only.
Reservations mandatory on the
ship.
Break of journey permitted in
case of disruption on rail leg
only.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.

===========

Restriction : 6J - 01004 - HLYHD SWIFT CIV
Shipping Links Irish Ferries
Route 01004
Ticket type SLD

Outward Travel

Valid on date on ticket.
Valid on Irish Ferries
services port to port only.
Not valid without reservation
coupons.
No break of journey except for
connection purposes only.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.
Not valid on Stena Express or
Lynx services.

Return Travel

Valid on date on ticket only.
Valid on Irish Ferries
services port to port only.
Reservations are compulsory on
the ship leg.
Break of journey permitted in
case of disruption on rail leg
only.
No unaccompanied children
under sixteen.

 

[Eire Sprinter]

Euston staff seem very conversant with this ticket type. I had a query late last year and the clerk was quickly able to deal with the matter and further told me that they were very familiar with these tickets.

Paddington should be well used to them too (given the through ticketing available to Rosslare Harbour). Interestingly London-Dublin overnight is possible via Rosslare Sunday to Friday nights ex London (inclusive) and Mondays to Fridays ex Dublin. Through SailRail ticketing is available from Irish Rail Dublin-Rosslare-Paddington.

Stena Line offer a complimentary bus from the ferryport in Dublin to both Connolly Station and Westmoreland St. (City centre). With Irish Ferries one has to fork out €2.50 single to travel on a bus they charter from Dublin Bus; pity the bus fare can't be included in the SailRail ticket price as an add-on.

 

[embers25]

How much is the Dublin-Rosslare-Paddington option when purchased in Ireland given it's not available the other way?

 

[Eire Sprinter]

Connolly-Paddington via Rosslare is €60 single to the best of my knowledge.

http://www.stenaline.ie/ferry/rail-and-sail/fishguard/

shows timings Paddington-Rosslare

The train to Dublin (Connolly) departs Rosslare Europort at 07.20 Mondays to Saturdays inclusive, arriving Connolly at 10.15.

In the reverse direction it departs Connolly at 16.37hrs Mon-Fri incl. arriving Rosslare Europort 19.25 hrs. Full timings here: http://www.irishrail.ie/media/11_DublinRosslareEuroport111.pdf

Rosslare - Dublin is a very scenic journey.

The ticket can be bought from the ticket office in Dublin Connolly.

 

[bkhtele]

Connolly-Paddington via Rosslare is €60 single to the best of my knowledge.

http://www.stenaline.ie/ferry/rail-and-sail/fishguard/

Rosslare - Dublin is a very scenic journey.

The ticket can be bought from the ticket office in Dublin Connolly.

Yes I agree with Eire Sprinter this is a lovely journey, I did it in reverse Swindon Rosslare to Dublin. The early morning mist rising in sunshire was fantastic. Great news you can still buy the ticket in Euros. They don't half make buying simple tickets difficult.

 

[lfc84]

Just continuing the discussions from above, but for a different route.

I would like to travel DGS-EUS, departing DGS at 1945. The ferry from Douglas is scheduled to arrive in Heysham at 2315 and there are no more trains.

I'm very familiar with the route. I am aware that if the 0845 departure was taken it would connect to the HHB-LAN service (at 1315 iirc).

There is of course an option at 1500 to go via LIV, but I would much prefer the 1945 due to not having to leave work early.

Is there any way at all that its possible to get the 1945, stay overnight in LAN (obviously at my own expense & cab to LAN) then continue the journey the following day.

Are the outbound ticket issued with date & reservation? I notice above there was some discussion about TOD and reservations.

Also, if purchasing an open return, would it be possible to arrive in LAN late evening, take a cab to HHB and board the ferry which departs at 0215. (Just curious on this latter bit. Dont really want to do it).

Thankyou

HHB = heysham port
LAN = lancaster
DGS = douglas (isle of man)
LIV = liverpool lime street
EUS = euston

 

[wintonian]

Just continuing the discussions from above, but for a different route.

I would like to travel DGS-EUS, departing DGS at 1945. The ferry from Douglas is scheduled to arrive in Heysham at 2315 and there are no more trains.

I'm very familiar with the route. I am aware that if the 0845 departure was taken it would connect to the HHB-LAN service (at 1315 iirc).

There is of course an option at 1500 to go via LIV, but I would much prefer the 1945 due to not having to leave work early.

Is there any way at all that its possible to get the 1945, stay overnight in LAN (obviously at my own expense & cab to LAN) then continue the journey the following day.

Are the outbound ticket issued with date & reservation? I notice above there was some discussion about TOD and reservations.

Also, if purchasing an open return, would it be possible to arrive in LAN late evening, take a cab to HHB and board the ferry which departs at 0215. (Just curious on this latter bit. Dont really want to do it).

Thankyou

HHB = heysham port
LAN = lancaster
DGS = douglas (isle of man)
LIV = liverpool lime street
EUS = euston

This is a diffrent issue as there are diffrent tickets on this route that don't have the same restrictions.

As far as reservations go the manual states this:

Reservations are compulsory on all sailings. Those customers without Boat/Seacat reservations may not be able to travel.

So you do not need a reservation for the legs coverd by rail but in theory do for the ferry, whether this is enforced (like it never was on the Dublin route) I do not know.

Also note the additional restrictions of the Ecconamy Saver Return (ECR) which do not aply to the Low Saver Return (LSR):

Economy Return (ECR)

Valid on all days except all Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays between June and September inclusive.

I can see no reason why you can not do what you prpose as long as Lancaster is still on a valid route, which it is and has to be otherwise the jouirny would be impossible.

 

[lfc84]

Thanks for the quick reply.

You seem to be saying a break of journey is allowed or at least the restrictions are different.

Do you know if the date is printed on the ticket? If so, how would it be possible to take the train after an overnight stay (ie following day). If the date isnt printed is a break of journey allowed? Also, the 1945 sailing doesn't show on National Rail enquiries - is this because there's no services from HHB or is it because its a break of journey?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm still a bit confused.

 

[wintonian]

Thanks for the quick reply.

You seem to be saying a break of journey is allowed or at least the restrictions are different.

Do you know if the date is printed on the ticket? If so, how would it be possible to take the train after an overnight stay (ie following day). If the date isnt printed is a break of journey allowed? Also, the 1945 sailing doesn't show on National Rail enquiries - is this because there's no services from HHB or is it because its a break of journey?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm still a bit confused.

The tickets will have the date of the outward trip printed as the 'start date' and a date 1 month later as the 'valid until' date.

It may not show due to there not being any rail connection so it might be difficult to buy a through ticket for that sailing, but you may be able to as stopping off overnight is quite reasonable I would have thought.

Edit: I won't even show up for DGS - HHB so I'm assuming that it hasn't been put into the system as there are no trains from HHB

This makes me think that there is only the single service to/ from HHB that through rail tickets can be used on.

The through service operates via Heysham most days throughout the summer with additional fast Seacat services also operating most days, via Liverpool (Princes Landing Stage). Special connecting bus transfer between train and ship at Liverpool is not included in the through ticket price. Passengers should allow a minimum of 30 minutes by taxi or 45 minutes by bus to transfer to/from Liverpool Lime Street.

You could allways ring up Isle of Man Steam Packet Company and ask if they will accept through rail tickets on the later sailing.

 

[lfc84]

The tickets will have the date of the outward trip printed as the 'start date' and a date 1 month later as the 'valid until' date.

It may not show due to there not being any rail connection so it might be difficult to buy a through ticket for that sailing, but you may be able to as stopping off overnight is quite reasonable I would have thought.

Edit: I won't even show up for DGS - HHB so I'm assuming that it hasn't been put into the system as there are no trains from HHB

This makes me think that there is only the single service to/ from HHB that through rail tickets can be used on.


You could allways ring up Isle of Man Steam Packet Company and ask if they will accept through rail tickets on the later sailing.

DGS - HHB doesnt show up at all. The ferry departs every day at 0845. Even if you put "first train of the day" into the National Rail journey planner you cant get it to show up.

I spoke to them and said they said that we could get the ferry at 1945, but they said we couldnt stay overnight in LAncaster since it would be a break of journey and the rail company wouldnt allow it.

That's why my original post was worded in the manner in which it was.

But the replies above seem to be saying something different. The replies here seem to be saying I can indeed take the 1945 on a Friday evening (for example), stay overnight in Lancaster and finish the journey Saturday morning.

I would purchase an open return, which is cheaper than 2 singles. Do tickets have the ferry time or train times printed on them for the outbound leg?

I would be confident of getting on the 1945 ferry when i turn up at the sea terminal. Its the train the following day that is my concern.

Am I right in thinking that the ticket shows the "start date".


The Virgintrains site shows the following:

ECONOMY RETURN

TICKET TYPE
ECONOMY RETURN


DESCRIPTION
SailRail return ticket to Ireland.

TRAIN OPERATOR
Most Train Operating Companies

BOOKING DEADLINES
Walk-up ticket: can be purchased either in advance or on day of travel. Reservations are mandatory for ships.

DISCOUNTS
Child fares are 50% of the full fare - no further discounts are available. Any child under 16 will not be allowed to board the ferry if they are on their own. 17 â¿¿ 18 year olds can travel on their own only if they have a letter.

REFUNDS
Full refund minus a cancellation fee for a ticket that is wholly unused and returned complete, within 28 days of its expiry date.


CHANGES TO TRAVEL PLANS
If either date is to be changed, cancel and rebook.

CONDITIONS
The journey must be on the date on the ticket. Return journey must be made within one calendar month. Reservations are not essential but are recommended for longer journeys. Reservations are essential for ships. Reservations for trains are optional.

BREAK OF JOURNEY
Break of journey is not permitted in either direction.

AVAILABILITY
Available on most journey on any days. Please check that your ship is sailing before you travel.

VALIDITY
It is only available for travel on specific journeys serving these ports.

Route
ISLE OF MAN SPC

When it says journey must be on the date of ticket, doe this mean the ferry or the rail part and does this rule out what i want to do? There's also the boj?

Sorry, Im very confused

National rail journey planner links to this

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/servi...res/DGS/EUS/130312/2215/first/250312/0015/dep

NR seems to indicate BOJ is allowed

and the validity code link is broken...

Very, very confused....

 

[John @ home]

The tickets will have the date of the outward trip printed as the 'start date' and a date 1 month later as the 'valid until' date.

I think that is so for the return leg but not for the outward leg.

Origin: DOUGLAS IOM
Destination: LONDON TERMINALS
Route: + ISLE OF MAN SPC
ECR: ECONOMY RETURN
Adult £98.50
Standard Class Return

Restriction : 6N - VIRGIN ECONOMY TO ISLE OF MAN
OUTWARD TRAVEL: Valid only on date shown.
RETURN TRAVEL: Valid on date shown or within one calendar month.

 

[wintonian]

This dosn't real clrify much but take a look at this post by John @ home

My thoughts are that it break of jouirny should be valid as this part of the above post:

The Restriction quoted by First class does not mention break of journey. Therefore the National Rail Conditions of Carriage Condition 16 entitles a passenger to "start, or break and resume, a journey ... at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use".

However I can see what John @ home is getting at when he says:

Validity code 6N includes "OUTWARD TRAVEL Valid only on date shown", suggesting that resuming the journey on the second day may not be allowed.

To muddy the waters the manual says:

An ECR Return ticket is valid for outward and return travel on the date shown on the ticket and on any other day within one month providing appropriate reservations are also held.

So I see no reason why you can not ask for seat reservations for which ever trains you like as long as the ticket is valid by that route.

Anyone else like to share their thoughts?

 

[lfc84]

Validity Code 6N isnt listed: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OffPeak.pdf

 

[wintonian]

I think that is so for the return leg but not for the outward leg.

Now you say that and I have re-read the orgional question it seems they may well be on the outward leg, I assumed they were returning.

Apoligies for the confusion.

The out portion will be have the start date and return dates as the same date.

 

[lfc84]

wintonian, im not sure if you saw my reply a minute before yours.

Validity Code 6N isnt listed: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OffPeak.pdf

Just to clarify: I am talking about the possiblity of doing the following on the outward leg.

DGS-HHB dep 1945 - arr 2315 then stay overnight in LAN. Take train following morning.

Thanks

 

[clagmonster]

The NRCoC state:
"For the purposes of this Condition and Condition 11, you will be treated as breaking your
journey if you leave a Train Company’s or Rail Service Company’s stations after you start
your journey other than:
(i) to join a train at another station, or
(ii) to stay in overnight accommodation when you cannot reasonably
complete your journey within one day, or
(iii) to follow any instructions given by a member of a Train Company’s staff."
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

When you leave Heysham Port station, you are doing so in order to join a train at Lancaster station, in accordance with clause (i). There are no further trains that day, so you can't complete your journey, therefore clause (ii) allows you to stay in overnight accomodation. Therefore, in the circumstances described, I don't believe there is any break of journey therefore it is irrelevent whether break of journey is prohibited or not.

 

[34D]

I'm slightly uneasy about the taxi to Lancaster. I'd feel happier saying overnight stay is perfectly valid if you were staying in a hotel in Heysham (assuming such a thing exists).

Above is just a personal opinion.

 

[John @ home]

Validity Code 6N isnt listed: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OffPeak.pdf

Relevant information in The Manual is:

Fares
Through Fares quoted are standard accommodation only. Passengers requiring First Class accommodation should purchase tickets to/from Heysham or Liverpool as required and re-book for the ship portion.

Fare Validities
Economy Return (ECR): Valid on all days except all Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays between June and September inclusive.
Low Saver (LSR): Valid on all days.
Passengers travelling outward and return in different periods to be charged the HIGHER price.

Period of Validity of Tickets
An SOS Single ticket is valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket providing appropriate reservations are also held.
An ECR Return ticket is valid for outward and return travel on the date shown on the ticket and on any other day within one month providing appropriate reservations are also held.

Railcard Discounts
Holders of 16-25, Senior, Disabled and Family & Friends Railcards can purchase, Low Saver (LSR) and Economy Return (ECR) tickets at special Railcard Discounted Prices. Standard Railcard discounts do not apply.
Holders of Family & Friends Railcards may be accompanied by up to 4 children aged from 5 and under 16 for a Throughout Rail/Ship fare of £20.00 return each.

Reservations
Reservations are compulsory on all sailings. Those customers without Boat/Seacat reservations may not be able to travel.

Child Fares
Children aged 5–15 years inclusive are charged 50% of the appropriate Adult fare.

Routeing
The through service operates via Heysham most days throughout the summer with additional fast Seacat services also operating most days, via Liverpool (Princes Landing Stage). Special connecting bus transfer between train and ship at Liverpool is not included in the through ticket price. Passengers should allow a minimum of 30 minutes by taxi or 45 minutes by bus to transfer to/from Liverpool Lime Street.

Tickets from stations in Zones D and E in England (Glos, Oxon, Bucks, Beds, Cambs, Norfolk & south of these) are available for travel via London as well as by any more direct route. The cross-London symbol ✠ must be shown on the ticket.

Ticketing
All tickets should be issued to Douglas loM H227 with the appropriate route: ISLE OF MAN SPC
Where passengers hold separate tickets for the ship, rail fares should be calculated to/from Heysham (NLC 2691) or Liverpool (NCL 0435).

The Period of Validity of a LSR ticket is not defined in The Manual. In NFM 11 CD it is "OUTWARD TRAVEL Valid only on date shown. RETURN TRAVEL. Valid on date shown or within one calendar month."

There is a discrepancy in the Period of Validity of a ECR ticket. In NFM 11 CD it is "OUTWARD TRAVEL Valid only on date shown. RETURN TRAVEL. Valid on date shown or within one calendar month." In The Manual it is more generous: "An ECR Return ticket is valid for outward and return travel on the date shown on the ticket and on any other day within one month providing appropriate reservations are also held."