Scotland - Framework out of the pandemic - 23rd February 2021

[kez19]

The leader of Dundee City Council is quoted as saying:-



I thought Moray was in, er, level 2.

But that doesn't scare people witless (or a word that sounds like witless) does it?

I find it ironic he is even quoting saying “thank god it’s not us”, maybe he should have kept quiet or people he heard saying it too but oh well..

 

[Journeyman]

Level 3 is associated with travel restrictions though, which are fairly annoying.

True, and I absolutely don't want those back. It wasn't a problem when we were all at 3, though.

 

[Butts]

Level 3 is associated with travel restrictions though, which are fairly annoying.

But unenforced so effectively pointless.

 

[duffers2324]

Plus to add effectively Nicola dropped the travel restrictions around the whole of Scotland, a week before she was supposed to on the 16th of April when we were ALL level 3 so allowed people to go around the country so whats the difference now?

 

[Journeyman]

Plus to add effectively Nicola dropped the travel restrictions around the whole of Scotland, a week before she was supposed to on the 16th of April when we were ALL level 3 so allowed people to go around the country so whats the difference now?

You're allowed to go anywhere within Level 3, but you're not supposed to travel from a Level 3 area to a Level 2, and vice-versa, so it's brought back a travel restriction.

 

[Butts]

You're allowed to go anywhere within Level 3, but you're not supposed to travel from a Level 3 area to a Level 2, and vice-versa, so it's brought back a travel restriction.

How is it being enforced ?

 

[Journeyman]

How is it being enforced ?

It's not. Note use of word "supposed". I don't think any of the current "don't go in/out of level 3" advice is anything other than guidance.

 

[Butts]

It's not. Note use of word "supposed". I don't think any of the current "don't go in/out of level 3" advice is anything other than guidance.

More to the point are the weegies responsible for all areas of Scotland being on Jerseys Amber/Red List (even the Islands) when most of England is Green.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I don't think any of the current "don't go in/out of level 3" advice is anything other than guidance.

It's law. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/344/schedule/4/part/4

Restrictions on leaving Level 3 area
13.—(1) A person who lives in a Level 3 area must not leave or remain away from that area.

There was a hullabaloo earlier this week after Glasgow-resident Patrick Harvie was spotted in a pub in Edinburgh, citing a breach of the level 3 travel restrictions.

 

[Journeyman]

It's law. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/344/schedule/4/part/4



There was a hullabaloo earlier this week after Glasgow-resident Patrick Harvie was spotted in a pub in Edinburgh, citing a breach of the level 3 travel restrictions.

Hadn't that changed when travel restrictions were lifted in April?

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Hadn't that changed when travel restrictions were lifted in April?

Yeah for like 10 days or something. Then got reverted

 

[takno]

There was a hullabaloo earlier this week after Glasgow-resident Patrick Harvie was spotted in a pub in Edinburgh, citing a breach of the level 3 travel restrictions.

He's allowed into Edinburgh for work. The hullabaloo was because they had 4 households in a single group, which you are absolutely not allowed to be caught doing.

 

[Journeyman]

He's allowed into Edinburgh for work. The hullabaloo was because they had 4 households in a single group, which you are absolutely not allowed to be caught doing.

Can I just congratulate you both on using the word "hullabaloo"? It's one of my favourites.

 

[greyman42]

He's allowed into Edinburgh for work. The hullabaloo was because they had 4 households in a single group, which you are absolutely not allowed to be caught doing.

So was anything done about this major transgression?

 

[Scotrail314209]

Glasgow to Ayr services have been packed today. Scotrail seem to think a 3 carriage train is adequate for a sunny bank holiday when people will inevitably flock down. One of my trains earlier was standing room only.

Mask wearing was mainly done by families and other adults, but they people weren’t wearing masks were either exempt or were worried it would ruin their fake tan.

 

[gnolife]

Glasgow to Ayr services have been packed today. Scotrail seem to think a 3 carriage train is adequate for a sunny bank holiday when people will inevitably flock down. One of my trains earlier was standing room only.

I've just had a 7 coach on the 1613 from Troon, which was carting fresh air, but tne 1318 from Johnstone was 3 coaches and absolutely rammed. People were left behind at Milliken Park, Dalry and Kilwinning

 

[Scotrail314209]

I've just had a 7 coach on the 1613 from Troon, which was carting fresh air, but tne 1318 from Johnstone was 3 coaches and absolutely rammed. People were left behind at Milliken Park, Dalry and Kilwinning

I’m on the 17:14 ex Ayr, which is 3 carriages and standing room only. I dread to think how bad it’s going to get at Troon and Irvine.

Surely Scotrail should’ve seen this coming? There was no warning on social media, nor did they specify a queueing system in Glasgow.

People were left behind at Troon, Barassie and Irvine due to the train being full.

 

[greyman42]

Mask wearing was mainly done by families and other adults, but they people weren’t wearing masks were either exempt or were worried it would ruin their fake tan.

Both good enough reasons for me.

 

[route101]

Glasgow out of level 3. Level 2 remains for now.

 

[duncanp]

I wonder how many people in Scotland actually know what the rules for gatherings are in the various levels, let alone stick to them.

And what is the Scottish government doing about enforcing these rules?

I can't see police or council officials going into a pub in Glasgow on Saturday and asking a group of six people to prove that they are only from 3 households.

Level 3

• you can meet in groups of up to 6 from 2 households in an indoor public place such as a café, pub or restaurant
• you can meet in groups of up to 6 from 6 households outdoors, in a private garden or a public place like a park or an outdoor area of a café

Level 2

• 6 people from 3 households in your home or theirs – and can stay overnight
• 6 people from 3 households in an indoor public place like a café, pub or restaurant
• 8 people from 8 households outdoors

Level 1

• of up to 6 people from 3 households in your home or theirs – and can stay overnight
• of up to 8 people from 3 households in an indoor public place like a café, pub or restaurant
• of up to 12 people from 12 households outdoors in your garden or a public place

Level 0

• of up to 8 people from 4 households in your home or theirs – and can stay overnight
• of up to 10 people from 4 households in an indoor public place like a café, pub or restaurant
• of up to 15 people from 15 households outdoors

Also I note the nightclubs are still closed at level 0 in Scotland.

What is Nicola Sturgeon's plans for reopening nightclubs, or is she prepared to see them all go to the wall?

 

[NorthOxonian]

Also I note the nightclubs are still closed at level 0 in Scotland.

Though at this point, that's purely academic - Stornoway and Kirkwall aren't exactly busy nightlife hubs.

I expect that when large mainland cities begin to hit level 0 (for example Aberdeen), the plans for reopening nightclubs should become clearer.

 

[kez19]

I wonder how many people in Scotland actually know what the rules for gatherings are in the various levels, let alone stick to them.

And what is the Scottish government doing about enforcing these rules?

I can't see police or council officials going into a pub in Glasgow on Saturday and asking a group of six people to prove that they are only from 3 households.

Level 3

• you can meet in groups of up to 6 from 2 households in an indoor public place such as a café, pub or restaurant
• you can meet in groups of up to 6 from 6 households outdoors, in a private garden or a public place like a park or an outdoor area of a café

Level 2

• 6 people from 3 households in your home or theirs – and can stay overnight
• 6 people from 3 households in an indoor public place like a café, pub or restaurant
• 8 people from 8 households outdoors

Level 1

• of up to 6 people from 3 households in your home or theirs – and can stay overnight
• of up to 8 people from 3 households in an indoor public place like a café, pub or restaurant
• of up to 12 people from 12 households outdoors in your garden or a public place

Level 0

• of up to 8 people from 4 households in your home or theirs – and can stay overnight
• of up to 10 people from 4 households in an indoor public place like a café, pub or restaurant
• of up to 15 people from 15 households outdoors

Also I note the nightclubs are still closed at level 0 in Scotland.

What is Nicola Sturgeon's plans for reopening nightclubs, or is she prepared to see them all go to the wall?

I have asked this to about the nightlife culture opening up but seems clear nothing has ever been mentioned, maybe in level -1 or -2?

 

[duncanp]

I have asked this to about the nightlife culture opening up but seems clear nothing has ever been mentioned, maybe in level -1 or -2?

If nightclubs open in England as planned on June 21st, and nothing bad happens, no doubt the data in Scotland will show that it is safe to reopen them North of the border as well.

Otherwise there will be an awfully large number of Scottish clubbers descending on Newcastle and Carlisle. (and Manchester, Liverpool. Blackpool ...etc etc)

 

[kez19]

If nightclubs open in England as planned on June 21st, and nothing bad happens, no doubt the data in Scotland will show that it is safe to reopen them North of the border as well.

Otherwise there will be an awfully large number of Scottish clubbers descending on Newcastle and Carlisle. (and Manchester, Liverpool. Blackpool ...etc etc)

Totally agree but you would think this would be part of the process but clearly not

 

[takno]

What is Nicola Sturgeon's plans for reopening nightclubs, or is she prepared to see them all go to the wall?

I get the impression that she finds the whole sector personally rather distasteful and would be fairly happy to see it go to the wall. Certainly there are no indications of any plans to actually exit the crisis, just to gradually work our way down to last summer's level of restrictions.

Now that even Sridhar has declared herself bored of the whole thing I suspect that will change.

 

[duncanp]

I get the impression that she finds the whole sector personally rather distasteful and would be fairly happy to see it go to the wall. Certainly there are no indications of any plans to actually exit the crisis, just to gradually work our way down to last summer's level of restrictions.

Now that even Sridhar has declared herself bored of the whole thing I suspect that will change.

My friends in Scotland have said to me "...Sturgeon hates pubs..." (their words, not mine)

Certainly the way she has victimised the hospitality sector, making it a scapegoat for the number of COVID cases, gives the impression that she is not all that bothered about what happens to pubs, clubs, restaurants and all the associated jobs.

When I was in Edinburgh last summer, several pubs hadn't reopened due to the onerous social distancing rules placed on them by the Scottish government.

Even though pubs throughout Scotland can now open again indoors (from Saturday in Glasgow) I can't help thinking that quite a few more are going to stay shut permanently, especially given the uncertaintly about all the new "scariants", and whether restrictions will have to be tightened again.

That is not to say that governments in other parts of the UK haven't victimised the hospitality sector too.

But I do get the impression that Boris Johnson at least wants to help reopen nightclubs and the night time economy, with various trial events having taken place over the past few weeks. (which have been successful with very little virus transmission taking place)

I am not aware of any such trial events in Scotland, but am open to being corrected if some events have been held.

Nicola Sturgeon just gives the impression that she couldn't care less about the night time economy in Scotland, possibly because there is only one political objective which matters to her.

 

[Butts]

Falkirk quite rightly moves down to Level 1 with the new changes coming into effect on Saturday.

It's all nonsense with Stirling and Clackmannanshire adjoining us and in Level 2 - Border Controls required !!

 

[adrock1976]

Falkirk quite rightly moves down to Level 1 with the new changes coming into effect on Saturday.

It's all nonsense with Stirling and Clackmannanshire adjoining us and in Level 2 - Border Controls required !!

Don't forget another neighbouring council area to you as well - North Lanarkshire remains in Level 2 as well.

To the best of my knowledge, there has been very little Covid cases in the former Cumbernauld and Kilsyth District Council area. Most of the positive cases have been in Motherwell, Bellshill, Coatbridge, and Airdrie.

Both Cumbernauld and Kilsyth were never part of Lanarkshire at all. Until 1975 Kilsyth was part of Stirlingshire, with Cumbernauld being part of Dunbartonshire. Both then became part of the former Strathclyde Regional Council.

As was with the recent case of outbreaks in Glasgow, which was heavily in the G41 and G42 postcode areas, I started a thread in this section of the forum asking if restrictions should be based on postcode areas, and this recent outbreak suggests that it could have been done that way a while ago. But on the other hand, we are where we are at this moment in time.

Also, on a final point, I would like to see the end of the comments/updates/briefings from Jason Leitch, as he is not a qualified virologist. His qualification is actually in dentistry, of which he has said very little about dental care during the pandemic, and should stick to his day job of what he is actually qualified in.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Also, on a final point, I would like to see the end of the comments/updates/briefings from Jason Leitch, as he is not a qualified virologist. His qualification is actually in dentistry, of which he has said very little about dental care during the pandemic, and should stick to his day job of what he is actually qualified in.

Jason Leitch is the National Clinical Director for ScotGov -if someone in that role is not appropriate to give briefings then I'm not sure if anyone is.

Yes he originally qualified in dentistry and worked (and lectured) as a dental surgeon but he changed career in the mid 2000s obtaining a Masters in Public Heath from Harvard.
He's worked in various roles across public health, patient safety, heathcare quality assurance and improvement since then for ScotGov as well as advising several other governments
I would suggest that he very much is qualified and has the experience for the role he is in

 

[liam456]

Jason Leitch is the National Clinical Director for ScotGov -if someone in that role is not appropriate to give briefings then I'm not sure if anyone is.

Yes he originally qualified in dentistry and worked (and lectured) as a dental surgeon but he changed career in the mid 2000s obtaining a Masters in Public Heath from Harvard.
He's worked in various roles across public health, patient safety, heathcare quality assurance and improvement since then for ScotGov as well as advising several other governments
I would suggest that he very much is qualified and has the experience for the role he is in

I would agree here! People to laugh at are the Eric Feigl-Ding's of the world, little more than Twitter media grifters. Some of Indie SAGE you could maybe take their statements with a pinch of salt, but those with real power and the ears of the rulers do know what they're on about! (Even if sometimes we don't want to hear what they're saying!)