ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

[GordonT]

Looks like they're struggling to even keep the reduced Sunday timetable running. Cancellations throughout the day to Neilston, Alloa, Fife Circle, Borders and E-G services.

According to the 2100hrs Radio Scotland news ScotRail have reported around 100 short notice cancellations today (Sunday) over and above the emergency timetable with around 50% of journeys operating compared to the full Sunday timetable in operation prior to the introduction of the emergency timetable.

 

[Ianigsy]

Nationalisation isn't the panacea people want it it be on here. You are locked in to public sector pay rises but the franchisees had to balance commercial interest and drivers were fundamental to their delivery which is why you never saw too much industrial action. Id be surprised you will see the restoration of any of these services for the foreseeable future now but just tweaks up to deal with bad gaps if and when additional resources become available.

Yes, you then end up with other public sector workers asking why teachers, nurses etc. - whose work arguably affects more of society- asking what rail workers do that’s so special.

 

[Carntyne]

Pulling the few trains running after TRNSMT finished, after it started today was a nice touch. Stranding thousands. It feels like senior management has just given up.

 

[Peter0124]

Pulling the few trains running after TRNSMT finished, after it started today was a nice touch. Stranding thousands. It feels like senior management has just given up.

I think it would've been better to have a later start today (say 12pm first train but normal night service) than an early finish

 

[GordonT]

I think it would've been better to have a later start today (say 12pm first train but normal night service) than an early finish

The difficulty is likely to be that covering the number of late turns currently scheduled is already proving to be mission impossible so the creation of a substantially higher number of late turns will simply be reflected in an even greater amount of cancellations under present circumstances.

 

[snookertam]

Trains would have finished before the end of TRNSMT even without the emergency timetable.

 

[Carntyne]

Trains would have finished before the end of TRNSMT even without the emergency timetable.

Advertised a limited number of trains after the event, then cancelled all of them. After the event had started.

 

[Cails27]

Pulling the few trains running after TRNSMT finished, after it started today was a nice touch. Stranding thousands. It feels like senior management has just given up.

Short of driving the train themselves I’m not sure what you’re expecting Senior Management to do.
If there is no driver then fair enough you might try and find someone else - the problem arises when trains have been cancelled all day. Trains get left on depots with nobody to take them out later on resulting in more cancellations.

 

[najaB]

Advertised a limited number of trains after the event, then cancelled all of them. After the event had started.

Though, it must be considered that the planners and management wouldn't have advertised trains that they didn't believe that they could run based on the staff that they thought they would have available. Problem is, when you're that close to the limits it doesn't take much for the whole thing to go to pot.

Without wanting to come across as favouring either side in the disagreement, if the union had given a little they probably could have covered the turns by allowing some drivers to work overtime or their rest day specifically to avoid chaos with lots of people unable to get home.

 

[snookertam]

To be fair, these are drivers themselves not wanting to work Sunday overtime shifts, which is not something the union necessarily have control over.

Not sure of the exact ins and outs of their deal, but allowing any group of workers the ability to determine their own availability on any given day in this way is a recipe for unreliability. Surely whoever signed off on such a deal must have realised that during that particular act of kicking the can down the road (of which there’s been many over the years, all intended to smooth over the dispute of the day).

There is a desire to bring Sunday into the working week, however I’m not sure drivers are going to be willing to vote for that no matter what they are offered in return.

 

[Cletus]

Just caught up with this thread.

I am planning to do the Inverness - Kyle Of Lochalsh - Mallaig - Glasgow trip on the 14th September which doesn't look like it is possible to meet the bus connections on Skye with the temporary timetable. Is it likely the service cuts would be continuing that far in the future?

 

[Llanigraham]

There is a desire to bring Sunday into the working week, however I’m not sure drivers are going to be willing to vote for that no matter what they are offered in return.

Really?
I thought it was the Unions and the staffs wish, subject to a suitable package, to bring Sundays into the working week but it is the Operators who are against it, as it will mean a bigger wage bill and more staff required.

 

[northscots]

Sundays as part of the working week is preferred by ASLEF but Scotrail don't have the drivers or the funds for it.

To be fair, these are drivers themselves not wanting to work Sunday overtime shifts, which is not something the union necessarily have control over.

Not sure of the exact ins and outs of their deal, but allowing any group of workers the ability to determine their own availability on any given day in this way is a recipe for unreliability. Surely whoever signed off on such a deal must have realised that during that particular act of kicking the can down the road (of which there’s been many over the years, all intended to smooth over the dispute of the day).

There is a desire to bring Sunday into the working week, however I’m not sure drivers are going to be willing to vote for that no matter what they are offered in return.

Sundays are overtime but it's mandatory overtime. They are rostered a set number each year. It's covering people that are on annual leave/sickness that's the issue when drivers aren't willing to do anything extra beyond their contractual obligation.

 

[ld0595]

Presumably ScotRail still have a duty of care despite the ongoing disruption? Were there any buses / taxis put on yesterday to get people home after the last few services of the day we're cancelled?

 

[Peter0124]

Even though Argyle Line and other services ended early, the Mount Florida-Newton rail replacement buses still ran, and people were routed that way from Central with a change (The last Cathcart Circle was 23:08). Would have taken over an hour though.

 

[Tractor2018]

Allowing any group of workers the ability to determine their own availability on any given day in this way is a recipe for unreliability.

Are you serious?

Allowing a worker to decide his availability on a rest day? Who would've thought.

 

[Scotrail84]

To be fair, these are drivers themselves not wanting to work Sunday overtime shifts, which is not something the union necessarily have control over.

Not sure of the exact ins and outs of their deal, but allowing any group of workers the ability to determine their own availability on any given day in this way is a recipe for unreliability. Surely whoever signed off on such a deal must have realised that during that particular act of kicking the can down the road (of which there’s been many over the years, all intended to smooth over the dispute of the day).

There is a desire to bring Sunday into the working week, however I’m not sure drivers are going to be willing to vote for that no matter what they are offered in return.

Thats been talked about for years but it will take a massive pay rise for all grades who have Sundays as overtime to get them agree to it.

 

[najaB]

Thats been talked about for years but it will take a massive pay rise for all grades who have Sundays as overtime to get them agree to it.

Have they changed the terms for new staff as a start?

 

[scotraildriver]

Thats been talked about for years but it will take a massive pay rise for all grades who have Sundays as overtime to get them agree to it.

But you will get more days off to make up for the Sundays. ASLEF want rid of overtime, including enforced Sunday overtime. You won't get a massive pay to compensate for losing Sunday overtime AND additional days off. Just won't happen.

 

[Scotrail84]

But you will get more days off to make up for the Sundays. ASLEF want rid of overtime, including enforced Sunday overtime. You won't get a massive pay to compensate for losing Sunday overtime AND additional days off. Just won't happen.

I think theres a deal with TFW guards that will see their pay jump up to 46k or thereabouts by including Sundays in their working weeks. I don't have anymore details though. Perhaps someone on here can put me right if this is way off being accurate.

Have they changed the terms for new staff as a start?

No, new entrants still come in under the old conditions. Sunday working as overtime.

 

[Class83]

But you will get more days off to make up for the Sundays. ASLEF want rid of overtime, including enforced Sunday overtime. You won't get a massive pay to compensate for losing Sunday overtime AND additional days off. Just won't happen.

Surely the maths would be current base salary plus amount for working compulsory Sunday 'overtime' work out the annual amount.

Then

1: If average hours are increased to include Sundays, then that is the baseline salary.
2: If average hours are kept constant then pro rata back, this number should still be slightly higher than current base as it will include some of the unsocial hours element from the Sundays.

Though 1 needs more drivers, 2 needs even more drivers training, though I remain of the view that overtime should only really be used for things like extra services put on for the Edinburgh Festival, sports events, music events rather than running the normal published timetable, unless there is an unusual amount of sick absence.

 

[najaB]

…though I remain of the view that overtime should only really be used for things like extra services put on for the Edinburgh Festival, sports events, music events rather than running the normal published timetable, unless there is an unusual amount of sick absence.

In theory, I agree. However it isn't that uncommon or unreasonable for organisations to also depend on overtime to cover peak holiday seasons as well.

 

[Essan]

Thats been talked about for years but it will take a massive pay rise for all grades who have Sundays as overtime to get them agree to it.

This should have been sorted out when trains started running on Sundays.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I notice that Scotrail's website shows a full service on the Kyle line the day I want to travel (Aug 12th). Is this optimism, or tardiness in updating the website?

 

[northscots]

I notice that Scotrail's website shows a full service on the Kyle line the day I want to travel (Aug 12th). Is this optimism, or tardiness in updating the website?

Timetables being updated frequently. They're currently only accurate as far as this Friday. Look at tomorrow and that will give you an idea of what's running but it could all change again very quickly.

 

[Bill57p9]

Just caught up with this thread.

I am planning to do the Inverness - Kyle Of Lochalsh - Mallaig - Glasgow trip on the 14th September which doesn't look like it is possible to meet the bus connections on Skye with the temporary timetable. Is it likely the service cuts would be continuing that far in the future?

I am in similar position having booked advance tickets to London for the following weekend connecting from Glasgow & South Western trains that now don't exist in the temporary timetable.

Anything can happen in the next 2 months, so my advice (and my personal plan) is wait and see.

 

[snookertam]

But you will get more days off to make up for the Sundays. ASLEF want rid of overtime, including enforced Sunday overtime. You won't get a massive pay to compensate for losing Sunday overtime AND additional days off. Just won't happen.

Drivers will knock that back then. We’re going to be in this position for a long time. I don’t see the drivers accepting any deal to bring Sundays into the working week.

 

[Starmill]

Drivers will knock that back then. We’re going to be in this position for a long time. I don’t see the drivers accepting any deal to bring Sundays into the working week.

Everyone said that TfW operational staff wouldn't accept a deal on that basis as well, until they did.

 

[chuff chuff]

Everyone said that TfW operational staff wouldn't accept a deal on that basis as well, until they did.

Did the TfW deal not include what looked like good increases in pay.
Sadly some my colleagues on scotrails eyes lit up when scotrail wanted to talk about sunday part of the working, some can't see passed the money unfortunately despite handing back so much in tax.

 

[Iamanoob]

Regarding Sunday as part of the working week, aren't some workers contracted to 13 Sundays per year, so any rise in pay coud be just for those 13 Sundays?