Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[stu77]

I think you're absolutely right. Ensure that they are ordered now.

If they ordered these 10 would it not be worth there while to order one that can run on the battery’s for testing for future possibilities.

 

[snookertam]

IMO they should be looking at the 10 add on units being inner suburban versions to operate from Glasgow Central. AT100 units for the Cathcart and Paisley Canal routes.

 

[mcmad]

what changes to the 3 car do you propose to make them inner suburban? They're not exactly intercity class just now!

 

[InOban]

Delivery has left.

 

[Clansman]

what changes to the 3 car do you propose to make them inner suburban? They're not exactly intercity class just now!

I disagree, I reckon they're the most suited MU ScotRail have at the minute, for Intercity journeys - if they were able to do them.

To make them suburban I'd guess you'd put in vinyl flooring, remove the luggage shelves, add a short row of longitudinal seating at each wall next to each door, and have facing seats at each window.

 

[alangla]

I still reckon the 707 is probably the ideal option for Cathcart. 5 cars with plenty of standing space, walk-through interior, sliding doors and hopefully decent commonality with the 380.

 

[800001]

Delivery has left.

385034

 

[SC318250]

385034

Is this confirmed by sight ?

Had wondered if another 2 would have come north

 

[adrock1976]

I still reckon the 707 is probably the ideal option for Cathcart. 5 cars with plenty of standing space, walk-through interior, sliding doors and hopefully decent commonality with the 380.

Although the following comment I am going to make is more of an infrastructure issue, being as the Cathcart route was electrified circa 1960 and with the overhead wires due to be replaced at some point in the future, this route is ideal as part of a second phase of a project for Glasgow to bring back trams.

Phase I can be Queen Street Station - Central Station - Broomielaw - Clyde Arc Bridge - Pacific Quay - Govan Cross (for Underground) - New Southern General Hospital - Braehead Centre - Renfrew Cross - Glasgow International Airport - Abbotsinch - Love Street - Paisley Gilmour Street.

All it requires to do the design, construction, and implementation is to get the people who done Manchester Metrolink provide the expertise being as they are the experts. That way, Glasgow's tram system will be built properly and in operation at the first time of asking.

 

[800001]

Is this confirmed by sight ?

Had wondered if another 2 would have come north

Reported on another group, seen by myself this evening with delivery panel fitted at factory.

 

[SC318250]

Thanks. I had updated the Scotrail wiki as expected tonight, so hence I was asking

Thanks again

 

[deltic08]

IMO they should be looking at the 10 add on units being inner suburban versions to operate from Glasgow Central. AT100 units for the Cathcart and Paisley Canal routes.

Whatever they are, they will be needed in a very short time to ease overcrowding somewhere.

As battery bimodes they could be employed on Glasgow/Edinburgh-Dunblanes extended to Perth stopping at Blackford and Gleneagles. When Perth is remodelled and electrified, try them on the Fife Circle and then gradually electrify that route with or without a wire over the bridge.

What is planned for the semi fasts to Berwick on Tweed?

 

[OmniCity999]

Whatever they are, they will be needed in a very short time to ease overcrowding somewhere.

As battery bimodes they could be employed on Glasgow/Edinburgh-Dunblanes extended to Perth stopping at Blackford and Gleneagles. When Perth is remodelled and electrified, try them on the Fife Circle and then gradually electrify that route with or without a wire over the bridge.

What is planned for the semi fasts to Berwick on Tweed?

In an entirely "money no object world" they could wire up Haymarket-Dalmemy and Fife and run them around there, dropping the pan when crossing the bridge. They'd be able to recharge around Fife if needed meaning EDB-Fife services could run as 7/8 car during the peaks and 3 or 6 car off peak.

Again in a "money is no object world" they could also wire up Fife to Stirling and central belt and Stirling-Perth and maybe even Dundee/avoiding or not even avoiding the Tay bridge. Allowing these units and in fact any units to be very flexible.

They could do this, but the probably wont.

 

[deltic08]

In an entirely "money no object world" they could wire up Haymarket-Dalmemy and Fife and run them around there, dropping the pan when crossing the bridge. They'd be able to recharge around Fife if needed meaning EDB-Fife services could run as 7/8 car during the peaks and 3 or 6 car off peak.

Again in a "money is no object world" they could also wire up Fife to Stirling and central belt and Stirling-Perth and maybe even Dundee/avoiding or not even avoiding the Tay bridge. Allowing these units and in fact any units to be very flexible.

They could do this, but the probably wont.

But they will eventually; that is the point of having battery bimodes. We don't know yet if the bridge can be wired or not due to the over line cross bracing.

 

[Craig2601]

First time on the 385s today, overall quite impressed and the seats are more than comfortable. However, the ride quality was pretty poor at some points in the journey, not sure if this is the case on all trains around Eastfield depot or just the 385.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I still reckon the 707 is probably the ideal option for Cathcart. 5 cars with plenty of standing space, walk-through interior, sliding doors and hopefully decent commonality with the 380.

I agree. Also the 707s are quite pleasing on the eye - no ugly designs. I’ve said it before but I really don’t think the 385s are a good replacement for the 314s on shorter routes. I’d say more standing room is required for sure and I’m not really sure whether longer carriages are what’s needed on the Cathcart Circle. I always thought the 318s and 320s would have been drafted in to cover for Cathcart Circle routes with the 321 conversations coming in.

 

[Stopper]

I’d say the 385s have the most standing room of any train in Scotland to be honest...they’re very spacious.

Class 707 is never gonna happen for Cathcart, not only will they be a bit of a micro-fleet and won’t be able to interchange with other services, they’re also 5-car which means no multiple working.

Obviously the 707s have lots of standing room but nobody should be complaining about having to take 385 on a route where 314s have operated for years.

 

[OmniCity999]

I’d say the 385s have the most standing room of any train in Scotland to be honest...they’re very spacious.

Class 707 is never gonna happen for Cathcart, not only will they be a bit of a micro-fleet and won’t be able to interchange with other services, they’re also 5-car which means no multiple working.

Obviously the 707s have lots of standing room but nobody should be complaining about having to take 385 on a route where 314s have operated for years.

If the 707's could be reformed to 8 car sets and 4 car sets they could potentially be useful for scotrail.

You could have solid 8 car running on the Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk Highs, they'd need first class installed if they dont already have it, and the 4 cars could run in multiple where required.

I feel as though we're going off topic, though.

 

[Esker-pades]

There is already a thread for class 707s on the Cathcart Circle:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...be-used-for-the-cathcart-circle-lines.177007/

 

[GrimShady]

First time on the 385s today, overall quite impressed and the seats are more than comfortable. However, the ride quality was pretty poor at some points in the journey, not sure if this is the case on all trains around Eastfield depot or just the 385.

I also think the ride quality is rather poor. 170s were superior in this regard along with the seats. 385s seem to rattle too in the driving coaches under acceleration and also quiet noisy. 380s on the same run were quiet but suffered from really bad ride quality and commuter style interior.

 

[snookertam]

what changes to the 3 car do you propose to make them inner suburban? They're not exactly intercity class just now!

Remove the tables, smaller seat backs, sections of longitudinal seating to provide extra standing space, less luggage space required, no carpets.

On the Cathcart and Canal routes passenger journeys are about 20 minutes at the most, no need for any of the comfort that you find on even the Argyle line or Inverclydes. The presence of the small tables on the 380s and 320s are actually a bit of a hindrance for passengers if anything.

But I'm probably nitpicking.

 

[Japan0913]

Remove the tables, smaller seat backs, sections of longitudinal seating to provide extra standing space, less luggage space required, no carpets.

On the Cathcart and Canal routes passenger journeys are about 20 minutes at the most, no need for any of the comfort that you find on even the Argyle line or Inverclydes. The presence of the small tables on the 380s and 320s are actually a bit of a hindrance for passengers if anything.

But I'm probably nitpicking.

It is a hitachi "AT100-METRO".
http://www.hitachirail-eu.com/products/our-trains/at100-metro

Technical outline
Train Configuration: 3 – 12 car
Speed Range: 75 – 100 mph
Max Acceleration: 1 m/s/s
Nominal Vehicle Length: 20m
Power Supply: Dual Voltage (25kVac / 650 – 750 Vdc / Battery)
Door Type / Positions: Sliding Plug / 1/3 2/3
Cab Design: Cab End Gangway
Interior: Bench seating, wide inter vehicle through gangway, LED Lighting throughout, passenger Wi-Fi provision

 

[Carntyne]

If the 707's could be reformed to 8 car sets and 4 car sets they could potentially be useful for scotrail.

You could have solid 8 car running on the Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk Highs, they'd need first class installed if they dont already have it, and the 4 cars could run in multiple where required.

I feel as though we're going off topic, though.

The E&G will already get 8 car running later this year, with the current 385 units. Just needs longer platforms at Queen Street first.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

It is a hitachi "AT100-METRO".
http://www.hitachirail-eu.com/products/our-trains/at100-metro

Technical outline
Train Configuration: 3 – 12 car
Speed Range: 75 – 100 mph
Max Acceleration: 1 m/s/s
Nominal Vehicle Length: 20m
Power Supply: Dual Voltage (25kVac / 650 – 750 Vdc / Battery)
Door Type / Positions: Sliding Plug / 1/3 2/3
Cab Design: Cab End Gangway
Interior: Bench seating, wide inter vehicle through gangway, LED Lighting throughout, passenger Wi-Fi provision

They would be 100% better going with something like this in comparison to the 385s for short haul routes.

 

[gingertom]

They would be 100% better going with something like this in comparison to the 385s for short haul routes.

we'd need a fleet of around 20 trains in fixed formation of 6x20m cars to cover the Milngavie and Helensburgh Central to Waverley diagrams.
Is there suitable work for the displaced 334s without them overheating and having to take regular cool down rests?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

we'd need a fleet of around 20 trains in fixed formation of 6x20m cars to cover the Milngavie and Helensburgh Central to Waverley diagrams.
Is there suitable work for the displaced 334s without them overheating and having to take regular cool down rests?

In all honesty I think the 334s work well on the A-B line, covering the odd working on the North Clyde and Argyle Line services too. I imagine the 334s will work these routes for the rest of their days unless of course there’s a massive change in passenger useage.

In the long term, however I think the A-B would suit longer units (23m). I think that’ll be the future of rail fleets anyway. I think gone are the days of standard sized trains. They could get some 4 cars in there I’d say. It’ll be interesting to see what they go for when the 318s and 320s go.

But anyway this is way off topic haha

 

[gingertom]

In all honesty I think the 334s work well on the A-B line, covering the odd working on the North Clyde and Argyle Line services too. I imagine the 334s will work these routes for the rest of their days unless of course there’s a massive change in passenger useage.

In the long term, however I think the A-B would suit longer units (23m). I think that’ll be the future of rail fleets anyway. I think gone are the days of standard sized trains. They could get some 4 cars in there I’d say. It’ll be interesting to see what they go for when the 318s and 320s go.

But anyway this is way off topic haha

I think it is on topic to discuss potential routes for the 385s.
If A-B was to get 385s then we're into platform length problems at some stations and extending the platforms to accommodate 6 car 385s of 138m could be expensive. SDO might work but would affect dwell times. You'd achieve a modest capacity increase by the use of a fixed formation 6-car sets of AT100 type 20m cars with the abolition of a pair of cabs. Would also help with revenue protection too. Or any other unit of 120m.

 

[snookertam]

I think 334s are fine where they are. I think the replacement units for the class 320s and 318s will be up next although probably not for around a decade and the idea of fixed six car units is a pretty good one. The only issue you need to deal with though is the dwells at Edinburgh Waverley or Glasgow Central HL where other traffic is competing for platform space. Not a huge issue though.

I wouldn't see 385s or any other 23m carriage units on the cross city routes being a goer without a lot of platform extensions taking place, which at some of the sub surface stations may be difficult - particularly Argyle Street. 385s I think are more suited to what would be considered 'regional' work or outer suburban. Only reason we will have them on the Cathcart routes is because they'll happen to be hanging around Central and something needs to replace the 314s...

 

[route101]

I think it is on topic to discuss potential routes for the 385s.
If A-B was to get 385s then we're into platform length problems at some stations and extending the platforms to accommodate 6 car 385s of 138m could be expensive. SDO might work but would affect dwell times. You'd achieve a modest capacity increase by the use of a fixed formation 6-car sets of AT100 type 20m cars with the abolition of a pair of cabs. Would also help with revenue protection too. Or any other unit of 120m.

W

What prevents 320/318s doing the A to B?

 

[JumpinTrainz]

W

What prevents 320/318s doing the A to B?

I don’t think anything. I just assumed it’s because the 334s were considered to be more modern than the 318s and 320s with the airline seats etc. It looked better when opening a new section of track with lots of publicity to have newer trains not ones from the late 80s/early 90s.