Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[route101]

I don’t think anything. I just assumed it’s because the 334s were considered to be more modern than the 318s and 320s with the airline seats etc. It looked better when opening a new section of track with lots of publicity to have newer trains not ones from the late 80s/early 90s.

I always thought there was a reason because if not you would see them doing runs now and then

 

[snookertam]

Units running as passenger east of Airdrie need to have in cab CCTV to work the doors, as those stations have no platform CCTV. Hence 318s and 320s are ruled out. They operate ECS to and from Bathgate for stabling purposes, but that's it.

 

[route101]

Units running as passenger east of Airdrie need to have in cab CCTV to work the doors, as those stations have no platform CCTV. Hence 318s and 320s are ruled out. They operate ECS to and from Bathgate for stabling purposes, but that's it.

Thats it , thanks

 

[380101]

W

What prevents 320/318s doing the A to B?

The A-B requires units equipped with bodyside CCTV cameras for DOO. There are no platform monitors/mirrors beyond Airdrie so only suitable for the 334.

 

[InOban]

Higher max speed on the central section. They don't half motor between Airdrie and Bathgate.

 

[snookertam]

Higher max speed on the central section. They don't half motor between Airdrie and Bathgate.

318s and 320s have the same top maximum speed (320/4s are actually faster I believe). It's all to do with the platforms not having CCTV.

 

[InOban]

Thanks. BTW, were the platforms on the A-B built just to 6 coaches? For the future, the station boxes at QS low level and Charing Cross are longer, as they used to accommodate 6 + the engine.

 

[alangla]

East of Bathgate is 6x23m rather than the 6x20 that’s the norm at the Glasgow end. 6x158/170 was a normal peak time load after doubling but before the 334s arrived & the middle bit opened.
GLQ LL will accommodate 6x23m and did during the 2016 blockade.
How you’d extend tighter stations like High Street or Bellgrove beyond their current size is anyone’s guess, I’m not sure it could be done economically.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

East of Bathgate is 6x23m rather than the 6x20 that’s the norm at the Glasgow end. 6x158/170 was a normal peak time load after doubling but before the 334s arrived & the middle bit opened.
GLQ LL will accommodate 6x23m and did during the 2016 blockade.
How you’d extend tighter stations like High Street or Bellgrove beyond their current size is anyone’s guess, I’m not sure it could be done economically.

There was talk a few years ago of them building a 'new' High Street but nothing has ever came of it. I want to say that was mooted at the same time as that proposed Glssgow Crossrail which has never materialised either.

 

[Maude673]

There was talk a few years ago of them building a 'new' High Street but nothing has ever came of it. I want to say that was mooted at the same time as that proposed Glssgow Crossrail which has never materialised either.

This is still very much the ambition of GCC as part of the continued regeneration of college lands. It’s still in the new City Development Plan, whereas the Scot Gov/ transport Scotland asked that cross rail was removed so the land the chord was to be built on is now subject to development of housing. So one day maybe, if the money appears / found through developer contributions. Although I believe the focus has now shifted to improving busses. Possibly due to the railway being difficult to work with or political lobbying. I can only speculate.

 

[route101]

This is still very much the ambition of GCC as part of the continued regeneration of college lands. It’s still in the new City Development Plan, whereas the Scot Gov/ transport Scotland asked that cross rail was removed so the land the chord was to be built on is now subject to development of housing. So one day maybe, if the money appears / found through developer contributions. Although I believe the focus has now shifted to improving busses. Possibly due to the railway being difficult to work with or political lobbying. I can only speculate.

Thought that was where the high speed terminus would be .

 

[gingertom]

Thought that was where the high speed terminus would be .

HS2 keeps talking about Glasgow Central as the HS terminus, along with splitting & combining with Edinburgh trains at Carstairs for that matter- so last century!

 

[Altnabreac]

HS2 keeps talking about Glasgow Central as the HS terminus, along with splitting & combining with Edinburgh trains at Carstairs for that matter- so last century!

Glasgow Central is likely to be the terminus for at least the next two phases of High Speed Trains.

HS2 Limited initial plans to run 200m trains will just use the existing network so will have to use Glsgow Central.

High Speed Rail Scotland are looking at running 400m trains and at building some dedicated High Speed lines in Scotland. But again the current plans do not include building new termini at either Edinburgh or Glasgow. Work at Central would be needed to allow the 400m trains to operate though, probably involving building out over the Clyde on the old piers east of the existing bridge.

A further future phase of HS rail could theoretically involve a new build station at Collegelands as proposed by Glasgow City council but I think it’s unlikely the business case would be as good as the onward connections are significantly better at Central and are thus likely to exceed any potential regeneration benefits at Collegelands.

 

[Fincra5]

Glasgow Central is likely to be the terminus for at least the next two phases of High Speed Trains.

HS2 Limited initial plans to run 200m trains will just use the existing network so will have to use Glsgow Central.

High Speed Rail Scotland are looking at running 400m trains and at building some dedicated High Speed lines in Scotland. But again the current plans do not include building new termini at either Edinburgh or Glasgow. Work at Central would be needed to allow the 400m trains to operate though, probably involving building out over the Clyde on the old piers east of the existing bridge.

A further future phase of HS rail could theoretically involve a new build station at Collegelands as proposed by Glasgow City council but I think it’s unlikely the business case would be as good as the onward connections are significantly better at Central and are thus likely to exceed any potential regeneration benefits at Collegelands.

Using the old Piers would make sense, a bit like when London Blackfriars was rebuilt.

 

[clc]

Collegelands is to be built on so there’s no prospect of a new station there: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...OmTBkVPRM&w=900&h=536&hl=en_GB&source=sh/x/im

 

[clc]

There was talk a few years ago of them building a 'new' High Street but nothing has ever came of it. I want to say that was mooted at the same time as that proposed Glssgow Crossrail which has never materialised either.

There are plans to redevelop High St station using City Deal money. I can’t find any details of what exactly is planned but a recent council report said it had moved to GRIP 4 stage and an application would also be submitted to the Rail Development Fund.

 

[jamieintercity]

Delivery has left the factory just before 9pm. I'd imagine its just a 385/0.

 

[800001]

Delivery has left the factory just before 9pm. I'd imagine its just a 385/0.

385037 left this evening.

 

[Defiance149]

385037 left this evening.

Do you know the loco please - 67004 again?

 

[Mingulay]

I was on a 4 car 385 to Dunblane the other night in First class but not designated First as is normal for services to Dunblane. It struck me how much of a token effort it is a a First class environment as distinct from Standard class. I like the trains so I'm happy with the environment in standard. But would I pay for a different coloured seat on a short journey and to be consume the same snack offering from a trolley that serves the whole train ? Nup! When I travel to London I will generally go 1st class given it's a long journey and it's a more notable upgrade in space and food service so worthwhile in the main , but for a commuter train? I would think a single class service with a trolley if you must is a perfectly acceptable offer on a short run. Personally I would ditch the trolley and reduce littering and mess. It's only 50 mins max.

I would have though single class train would have been more in keeping with the Scottish governments left of centre egalitarian leanings as well?

If you were going to offer a price point First class service on a 385 it really needs to be a whole carriage branded and fitted more plushly with a servery counter offering a decent cafe style fare ?

 

[marks87]

Isn't First class only really there for the same reason as on any other commuter train - to give a better chance of getting a seat in the peaks?

 

[Indigo Soup]

That, and Glasgow to Edinburgh is something more than an outer suburban route in terms of perceived importance, with quite a lot of 'inter-city' traffic - though certainly not of a length that justifies the First Class bells and whistles of a 'proper' inter-city service. The routes via Cumbernauld, Bathgate, and Shotts are very much Edinburgh suburban and Glasgow suburban services that happen to meet in the middle, and are treated accordingly.

Getting rid of First Class on the Edinburgh-Falkirk High-Glasgow route would probably be poorly received in both cities as being tantamount to reducing each to a suburb of the other, even if it is just a different colour of seat, more chance of sitting in it, and a nice slidey door to keep the riff-raff's noise down.

 

[InOban]

And a number of professionals are willing to pay to be able to work/talk in private..
Legal and financial services are very much integrated across the Central Belt.

 

[GrimShady]

And a number of professionals are willing to pay to be able to work/talk in private..
Legal and financial services are very much integrated across the Central Belt.

Including me.

 

[takno]

I was on a 4 car 385 to Dunblane the other night in First class but not designated First as is normal for services to Dunblane. It struck me how much of a token effort it is a a First class environment as distinct from Standard class. I like the trains so I'm happy with the environment in standard. But would I pay for a different coloured seat on a short journey and to be consume the same snack offering from a trolley that serves the whole train ? Nup! When I travel to London I will generally go 1st class given it's a long journey and it's a more notable upgrade in space and food service so worthwhile in the main , but for a commuter train? I would think a single class service with a trolley if you must is a perfectly acceptable offer on a short run. Personally I would ditch the trolley and reduce littering and mess. It's only 50 mins max.

I would have though single class train would have been more in keeping with the Scottish governments left of centre egalitarian leanings as well?

If you were going to offer a price point First class service on a 385 it really needs to be a whole carriage branded and fitted more plushly with a servery counter offering a decent cafe style fare ?

Why the cheap political statement? There's absolutely nothing about being very mildly left of centre that makes first class on the train unacceptable.

 

[Kite159]

At least First Class on the 385s have 2+1 seating, better than other commuter EMUs which has 2+2 seating, with just a little antimacassar on the same seats.

 

[Mingulay]

Why the cheap political statement? There's absolutely nothing about being very mildly left of centre that makes first class on the train unacceptable.

Was not meant to be provocative. Just thought that it was a progressive position to take that might find some resonance within government and the public . Not fussed either way other than for what you get in first for a short journey I would think it’s hardly worth the £ and it may be better to have more seats as all standard.

The greens are pretty left. They would like it I suspect.

 

[Mingulay]

And a number of professionals are willing to pay to be able to work/talk in private..
Legal and financial services are very much integrated across the Central Belt.

Well I put my self in that category of "professionals" . If any lawyer or Financial services professional was discussing his work in a train first or standard class he/she needs to take a long hard look at themselves. In fact in such a small area, you would be less private than in Standard class discussing your work and more likely to be overheard by someone who would be interested in your buisiness in First class . Not sure the Law Society would be impressed if a train was considered a suitable location for telephone discussions or reading work papers . I have overheard plenty of valuable intel from careless individuals on the train . If someone lays out his papers/ laptop in front of you its not always easy to avoid getting an insight even if your not intending to . I never do any work on a train and will avoid having anything other than social chat on a phone . A train is not a "private" place first class or otherwise.

 

[Mulson]

None of that is Scotrails problem. Thier only interest should be if the provision of first class is or is not providing additional revenue over that section being standard.

 

[gsnedders]

None of that is Scotrails problem. Thier only interest should be if the provision of first class is or is not providing additional revenue over that section being standard.

ScotRail doesn't even really have any concern about whether or not there is first class provision: they're contractually obliged to provide it unless they get dispensation from Transport Scotland for a variation, so they do.