Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[NotATrainspott]

I thought as much.
Shame they can't have a separate E-G fleet

There effectively is. The 24 4-car sets are only intended for use on the E&G shuttle, with 3-car sets used on all other routes. Platform extensions for 8 car operation are only planned for the E&G shuttle stations. However, upon introduction the E&G services will be run by 3+4 car sets joined together as these works will not be complete in time. Plus, being able to test both types of unit in service from day 1 is a better idea than introducing all of one type first and then the other.

 

[Clansman]

There effectively is. The 24 4-car sets are only intended for use on the E&G shuttle, with 3-car sets used on all other routes. Platform extensions for 8 car operation are only planned for the E&G shuttle stations. However, upon introduction the E&G services will be run by 3+4 car sets joined together as these works will not be complete in time. Plus, being able to test both types of unit in service from day 1 is a better idea than introducing all of one type first and then the other.

What about North Berwick and Berwick Upon Tweed services? I understand that they will run 3+3 during the peaks but I highly doubt they will be confined to only 3 car seats outwith, as that would be a major downgrade in capacity compared to the current 380/1s used.

 

[NotATrainspott]

What about North Berwick and Berwick Upon Tweed services? I understand that they will run 3+3 during the peaks but I highly doubt they will be confined to only 3 car seats outwith, as that would be a major downgrade in capacity compared to the current 380/1s used.

I didn't mean that there would never be 6 car services; just that the 4-car trains will not be used on non-E&G services. Enough 4-car sets have been ordered for the E&G shuttle to run exclusively with 4-car sets, either singly or doubly. Of course, it's entirely possible that a 4-car set might someday end up substituting for a 3-car or vice-versa, but you won't find 3+4 or 4+4 car formations on anything but the E&G due to platform length issues.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

385102 begins testing tonight in an SPZ on the Gourock line. Great news.

A well known local enthusiast has posted a video of 385102 stabled at Gourock.

He is remarkably thorough - from about 0' 54" he walks the whole length of the 4 coaches, down one side and back up the other on the opposite platform, giving a very clear idea of what the features are. Steadicam footage it isn't, but it's well worth watching.

Well done Jeffray W.

 

[47802]

There effectively is. The 24 4-car sets are only intended for use on the E&G shuttle, with 3-car sets used on all other routes. Platform extensions for 8 car operation are only planned for the E&G shuttle stations. However, upon introduction the E&G services will be run by 3+4 car sets joined together as these works will not be complete in time. Plus, being able to test both types of unit in service from day 1 is a better idea than introducing all of one type first and then the other.

Well maybe they should have done without the corridor connection, got 8 car units for E&G services which could initially be 7 Car with an additional carriage added later.

 

[Class 170101]

That could have been possible. The Class 345s are being constructed this way. 7 car on the GEML to start with before being extended to 9 car operation once the core opens. (Liverpool Street Platforms 16 to 18 cannot fit a 9 car Class 345).

 

[Clansman]

Definitely would've preferred a fixed formation unit without an end gangway instead of 3 & 4 coach sets with gangways. Although I'm surprised a class 458 style gangway has never been thought out, as they retracted back into the face of the train thus not inhibiting the driver's view at all.

Hopefully, we'll see fixed formation gangway-less trains when the 318/320s are due for replacement.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Although I'm surprised a class 458 style gangway has never been thought out, as they retracted back into the face of the train thus not inhibiting the driver's view at all.

I thought I remember reading somewhere that SWTs had a lot of problems with that retractable design used on their pre-rebuild 458s

 

[deltic08]

they are planned to be used on at least 5 routes so a fixed formation would be no use for the likes of the Cathcart Circle or Shotts line.

That doesn't make sense. Even as 4-car sets they can't be used on other routes at the same time as being used on E&G so they could be dedicated 8-car sets

 

[Carntyne]

That doesn't make sense. Even as 4-car sets they can't be used on other routes at the same time as being used on E&G so they could be dedicated 8-car sets

I highly doubt the E&G will be an 8 car railway throughout the day. None of what TS has said states this. They won't use 8 cars when 4 will do.

 

[scotraildriver]

I didn't mean that there would never be 6 car services; just that the 4-car trains will not be used on non-E&G services. Enough 4-car sets have been ordered for the E&G shuttle to run exclusively with 4-car sets, either singly or doubly. Of course, it's entirely possible that a 4-car set might someday end up substituting for a 3-car or vice-versa, but you won't find 3+4 or 4+4 car formations on anything but the E&G due to platform length issues.

Running a 15 minute 8 car service on the E & G only requires 16 units. No chance there are 8 spares so the 4 cars must be planned for other routes too.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Running a 15 minute 8 car service on the E & G only requires 16 units. No chance there are 8 spares so the 4 cars must be planned for other routes too.

They're fitted with first class, unlike the 3-car sets. It's possible that they would end up on other routes but they would have to venture out alone, as non-E&G platforms aren't going to be longer than 6 carriages.

It's only now that new full-length fixed-formation units are being acquired for some London commuter units. ScotRail has a while to go yet before the advantages of fixed-formation sets outweighs the disadvantages. The only fixed-formation trains I could see being ordered within the next decade or two would be the replacements for the HSTs on long distance services.

 

[Clansman]

They're fitted with first class, unlike the 3-car sets. It's possible that they would end up on other routes but they would have to venture out alone, as non-E&G platforms aren't going to be longer than 6 carriages.

It's only now that new full-length fixed-formation units are being acquired for some London commuter units. ScotRail has a while to go yet before the advantages of fixed-formation sets outweighs the disadvantages. The only fixed-formation trains I could see being ordered within the next decade or two would be the replacements for the HSTs on long distance services.

I could easily see 4+ car sets on the Berwick Upon Tweed services when they commence, but in regards to North Berwick then they'd most likely be 2 x 3 car sets on most services as having 3 car sets on that route would be a major downgrade in capacity.

In regards to fixed formation sets, Glasgow would benefit most (outwith the Intercity routes) of having such rolling stock. I forsee a mass Anglian style order of rolling stock to replace the 156s/318s/320s/334s (as well as displacing the 385s to Central Belt routes) of which a fixed formation sets consisting of 6 coaches would really benefit the whole network. It would make sense in the long run and would also make sense for the rolling stock to be 707/717s or any other Desiro City variant which would intertwine with the 380s on the maintenance front.

 

[Roast Veg]

It will likely be well beyond the 707 style by then, I know there were minor issues at siemens when the 350/3s were ordered because they didn't remember where the designs were (or something to that effect).

In regards tot he gangways, don't the 380s lean back a little? Kind of a balance between the 458/0s and not moving at all. Even if it only folded a little way it might provide a bit more visibility.

 

[xc170]

A well known local enthusiast has posted a video of 385102 stabled at Gourock.

He is remarkably thorough - from about 0' 54" he walks the whole length of the 4 coaches, down one side and back up the other on the opposite platform, giving a very clear idea of what the features are. Steadicam footage it isn't, but it's well worth watching.

Well done Jeffray W.

May be missing something obvious, but why on the driving cars that have been vinyl'd have the windows been covered with blue vinyl?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

In regards tot he gangways, don't the 380s lean back a little? Kind of a balance between the 458/0s and not moving at all. Even if it only folded a little way it might provide a bit more visibility.

Yep, the corridor connections retract on the 380s:

[youtube]QYR8_4LL0GU[/youtube]

Is it known yet if the corridor connections retract on the 385s? I've not yet seen any videos on youtube showing them either couple or uncouple

 

[D365]

It doesn't matter whether they fold back or not, they're still in the bleeding way.

 

[Domh245]

Is it known yet if the corridor connections retract on the 385s? I've not yet seen any videos on youtube showing them either couple or uncouple

They don't. There is nowhere that they can retract into for a start.

 

[380101]

May be missing something obvious, but why on the driving cars that have been vinyl'd have the windows been covered with blue vinyl?

No interior fitted on 385102 yet. Just ballast bags to simulate passenger loadings and lots of test apparatus on board.

 

[Clansman]

A video was posted today by Scorail about the beginning of testing of the 385s.

As stated by them on their Facebook page along with the video;

The long-awaited sequel to Trainspotting may be known as T2 – but to a team of railway engineers T2 means something completely different. T2’s also the working title for the first of our new fleet of 70 Class 385 trains.

Choose faster. Choose longer. Choose greener…

As we get ready for the new trains, testing of T2 is taking place overnight, so it doesn’t disrupt any of the 2,800 services that run each day in Scotland. The Class 385 fleet will begin to enter passenger service from September, delivering more seats, faster journeys and a much greener and cleaner travelling experience for you across the central belt.

Ian McConnell, programmes and transformation director for the ScotRail Alliance, said: “It’s fantastic to have the first of our new trains actually running on Scotland’s railway as this means we are one step closer to making them available to our customers.

But before we do that, we have to make sure each train is fully tested on the network. That means ensuring that it interacts properly with railway infrastructure such as signals and overhead lines, and that’s what the team is focussing on right now.

“The test train is not yet fitted with seats and tables so we’re using sandbags to represent the weight of these, as well as passengers. That means we are carrying out our tests in realistic conditions.

“Up next will be the second phase of testing, when the new fleet will be allowed to operate on the network alongside other trains. That is likely to begin in spring on two routes from Edinburgh, to North Berwick and to Glasgow via Falkirk High - so great opportunities for train spotting!”

The new trains are being built by Hitachi Rail Europe at its state of the art facility in County Durham.

[YOUTUBE]LzdA3vHnCj[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Chris125]

A video was posted todau by Scorail about the beginning of testing of the 385s.

As stated by them on their Facebook page along with the video;

If it's any help Youtube embeds only seem to work using the last part of the url (after the =) - <YOUTUBE>LzdA3vHnCj</YOUTUBE>


[YOUTUBE]LzdA3vHnCjc[/YOUTUBE]

 

[najaB]

A video was posted todau by Scorail about the beginning of testing of the 385s.

Thanks for posting. Did anyone else think that the train seemed interestingly quiet?

 

[J-2739]

Thanks for posting. Did anyone else think that the train seemed interestingly quiet?

It's okay, but also quite penetrating to the ears.

I really like seeing the 380s and the 385s next to each other. They look like a brother and sister.

 

[ld0595]

385001 was hauled to Mossend yesterday evening. A photo of it at Newcastle can be seen here (not my own!)

 

[absolutelymilk]

This thread has been very quiet recently, are there no more videos of testing or other news?

 

[SC318250]

67024 hauled 385102 back to Merchant park on Monday i think it was, and 385001 followed on Tuesday, with 67024

67024 then hauled 385102 back to Mossend on Thursday night, before something hauled it to Shields Saturday for a exam, then it was hauled to Gourock last night

The overheads at Queen Street were suppose to go live today.. whether they did is another story

Testing outwith possession between Edinburgh and Glasgow Queen Street/North Berwick suppose to start in spring

 

[D365]

I really like seeing the 380s and the 385s next to each other. They look like a brother and sister.

Well they are built to a very similar specification...

 

[Clansman]

https://anonw.com/2017/04/21/hitachi-class-385-trains-and-charging-stations/

Talk of the 385s getting batteries built into them apparently, not taking it literally though but it's an interesting revelation never the less.

 

[CosherB]

Complete speculation only. File it under 'wibble'.

 

[Clansman]

Complete speculation only. File it under 'wibble'.

Pretty much.