Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[me123]

Nith Valley line to be electrified then (p344 Table 3).

Seems like a sensible plan. Electric trains to all GSW trains in one go (aside from Stranraer runs), and a useful diversionary route for the WCML to boot. Not really surprised that the whole route is going under the wires, although certainly glad to see it in an official document.
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Anybody else notice the very last page of the franchise agreement is page number 666.

That's interesting. The last page of the book in front of me at the moment is 1508.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Probably the only way they can get any kind of noticeable speed increese without putting a 100mph DMU on who'se full abilitty will only be used for the last few miles.

 

[Chrism20]

Am I reading this correctly or have I got mixed up somewhere?

Page 120, section 27.2

On or before 1st December 2017, the Franchisee shall ensure that a Tourism Ambassador is present on each Scenic Train. The Franchisee shall procure that the Tourism Ambassador attends Visit Scotland’s Tourism for All training course
For the purposes of this Committed Obligation and Committed Obligation reference 27.2 below, a Scenic Train is any service running on West Highland Line, Kyle Line, Far North Line, Glasgow-Ayr-Stranraer Line, Glasgow- Kilmarnock-Carlisle Line and Borders Railway Line.
In the peak tourist season multi lingual students on placements will work with the Franchise Employees on the Scenic Train.

Is this ambassador simply going to be the guard who has been sent for an NVQ in tourism or is it going to be an additional member of staff? If it is an additional member of staff I wonder how much uptake there will be on the 0520 from Tweedbank on a December morning. I can understand them being on any service on the Far North/Kyle/WHL etc services but any service at all?

The next section goes on to detail the requirements of the scenic service which does sound pretty good and the cost has also been capped which is good.

 

[Altnabreac]

Am I reading this correctly or have I got mixed up somewhere?

Page 120, section 27.2



Is this ambassador simply going to be the guard who has been sent for an NVQ in tourism or is it going to be an additional member of staff? If it is an additional member of staff I wonder how much uptake there will be on the 0520 from Tweedbank on a December morning. I can understand them being on any service on the Far North/Kyle/WHL etc services but any service at all?

The next section goes on to detail the requirements of the scenic service which does sound pretty good and the cost has also been capped which is good.

I suspect it's more likely the trolley crews who'll be going on the Tourism SVQ.

 

[Chrism20]

I suspect it's more likely the trolley crews who'll be going on the Tourism SVQ.

Ah, I forgot about the catering staff - thanks!

I wasn't aware the Borders line was to have a trolley service, it's not specifically mentioned in the agreement anyway. Also food boxes are to be available to scenic passengers on all services except the Borders by the looks of it. Tablecloths and everything if you please.

 

[Blindtraveler]

A VT FC Weekend Snackbox with a mountain on the front maybe?

 

[Chrism20]

A VT FC Weekend Snackbox with a mountain on the front maybe?

Only the best of gear

7. Onboard catering which shall focus on local suppliers and feature the
best brands and primary produce from the best producers;
8. Scenic breakfast, lunch or dinner hamper (consisting of high quality boxed food) together with a guide for the customer’s journey which is pre-bookable. This Scenic Train catering package shall be available on Scenic Trains which use the West Highland Line, Kyle Line

 

[cf111]

Am I reading this correctly or have I got mixed up somewhere?

Page 120, section 27.2



Is this ambassador simply going to be the guard who has been sent for an NVQ in tourism or is it going to be an additional member of staff? If it is an additional member of staff I wonder how much uptake there will be on the 0520 from Tweedbank on a December morning. I can understand them being on any service on the Far North/Kyle/WHL etc services but any service at all?

The next section goes on to detail the requirements of the scenic service which does sound pretty good and the cost has also been capped which is good.

The early far north train would be interesting. "It's cold because the heating has just been turned on, you can't see anything outside because the sun won't come up until around Lairg and no you can't get a cup of tea because there's no trolley. Please do enjoy the lovely drawings we've printed on the tables though."

It's an interesting proposal certainly, and I do hope it does succeed, but my years in the frozen north have clearly left me too cynical for my own good.

 

[Altnabreac]

Ah, I forgot about the catering staff - thanks!

I wasn't aware the Borders line was to have a trolley service, it's not specifically mentioned in the agreement anyway. Also food boxes are to be available to scenic passengers on all services except the Borders by the looks of it. Tablecloths and everything if you please.

I think there are probably going to be 2 levels of Scenic train provision.

The full on singing dancing bells on version on the core lines of West Highland and Kyle which were the requested lines from TS in the ITT.

A slightly reduced version with less fancy catering, tablecloths etc on Borders, Dumfries, Stranraer and Far North line.

It's difficult from the ITT to work out exactly who'll do what when. I presume the easiest way to comply with the franchise requirement for tourism trained staff is to train all guards and catering staff on these routes to Tourism SVQ standard.

Then on non trolley services the Guard acts as the "Tourism Ambassador" while on existing trolley services it will be the catering staff.

Seems a sensible approach really to try and roll out the tourism success of the West Highland and Kyle lines to other areas while acknowledging that they aren't there yet.

 

[Chrism20]

Yes, it's certainly looking like that which is a shame. I'd prefer to see the scenic service advertised on selected services where the service could be delivered properly.

Someone who has for instance travelled on the far north line and been treated to the full works would then end up disappointed on a watered down service to Tweedbank or Carlisle which defeats the purpose of the service.

 

[Chris125]

Nith Valley line to be electrified then (p344 Table 3).

Not necessarily:

"Table 3 covers routes that maybe added to the Scottish AC Electrified Network - included for information only and no clearance information is needed"

 

[insidetrack77]

Not sure if it has already been said but Abellio Scotrail will be offering delay repay on its services from day 1 of the franchise.

 

[Scotrail84]

Heard the new lecys for the E+G will be completely doo. Not the news a lot were hoping to hear.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thats a poor show. Short memorys at Holyrood it would seam. Get ready for a rerun of the A to B as staff quite rightly stick up for themselves and whilst I cant speek for everyone, I, as a passenger will support them!

 

[Steve childs]

Doo. Thats funny you say that as i saw a post somewhere that union guys had said something about no guards at qst. I imagine it meant queen street. What next i wonder. Abellio did say no compulsory redundancies. I know a few people not sleeping at several maintenance depots. It should not be like this going forward.

 

[Class83]

Heard the new lecys for the E+G will be completely doo. Not the news a lot were hoping to hear.

Will they have on-board staff for ticket sales/catering?

 

[jonnysr]

Heard the new lecys for the E+G will be completely doo. Not the news a lot were hoping to hear.

Can you elaborate? How can you know what a new unit will be like years before it enters service?? :roll:

 

[Steve childs]

Come to think of it i was told last week that the currant 170 are more or less DOO as the driver operates the door and they still have staff on board. Scaremongering. The Scotrail is full of it the now.

 

[ADRboy]

Can you elaborate? How can you know what a new unit will be like years before it enters service?? :roll:

DOO - Driver Only Operation

 

[cf111]

Come to think of it i was told last week that the currant 170 are more or less DOO as the driver operates the door and they still have staff on board. Scaremongering. The Scotrail is full of it the now.

As far as I know, the Guard operates the doors on every ScotRail DMU.

 

[najaB]

Come to think of it i was told last week that the currant 170 are more or less DOO as the driver operates the door and they still have staff on board. Scaremongering. The Scotrail is full of it the now.

There are door controls in the guard's panel and they have always operated the doors when I've watched them.

 

[380gk]

Can you elaborate? How can you know what a new unit will be like years before it enters service?? :roll:

Because abellio told staff that this week.

 

[Class 170101]

Come to think of it i was told last week that the currant 170 are more or less DOO as the driver operates the door and they still have staff on board. Scaremongering. The Scotrail is full of it the now.

Class 170s are capable of DOO. Were used as such between Ipswich and London (and still are between Ipswich and Colchester).

 

[Steve childs]

Thank you 170. Some of the staff "conductors" told us this week they were not allowed to operate the doors for safety reasons. Let's all hope Abellio stick to their promises.

 

[Scotrail84]

Will they have on-board staff for ticket sales/catering?

Yes, part of franchise agreement I think.

Can you elaborate? How can you know what a new unit will be like years before it enters service?? :roll:

Abellio claim this was already negotiated before they won the bid for the franchise.

Come to think of it i was told last week that the currant 170 are more or less DOO as the driver operates the door and they still have staff on board. Scaremongering. The Scotrail is full of it the now.

Absolute rubbish. No idea where that story/rumour has surfaced from. Load of pish mate. Don't listen to rumours.

As far as I know, the Guard operates the doors on every ScotRail DMU.

100% correct 156/158/170. EMU 380s.

There are door controls in the guard's panel and they have always operated the doors when I've watched them.

Panels in every coach and driving cabs.

Because abellio told staff that this week.

Yes. At the Q and A sessions.

Class 170s are capable of DOO. Were used as such between Ipswich and London (and still are between Ipswich and Colchester).

They are capable of doo yes. They do not operate doo on any service in Scotland other than ecs for the pedants.

Thank you 170. Some of the staff "conductors" told us this week they were not allowed to operate the doors for safety reasons. Let's all hope Abellio stick to their promises.

This only applies when operating the doors from the rear cab except when it's too busy you need special authorisation from the control to operate doors from there.

This is for a number of reasons. One being there is no step on the outside of the unit at the cab door, the other reasons I won't go into.

 

[Argosy]

Not necessarily:

"Table 3 covers routes that maybe added to the Scottish AC Electrified Network - included for information only and no clearance information is needed"

I was testing you there

What I was expecting in the document was Muirhouse South Jn to Kilmarnock not Muirhouse South Jn to Gretna !

 

[Steve childs]

That's cleared that up. Was the other reason something to do with a train driving off and leaving a member of staff behind on a remote platform. Lol

 

[SkinnyDave]

Assuming if main E&G line goes DOO the Dunblanes will go that way too when AT200s arrive

 

[Scotrail84]

That's cleared that up. Was the other reason something to do with a train driving off and leaving a member of staff behind on a remote platform. Lol

Are you being serious?

Assuming if main E&G line goes DOO the Dunblanes will go that way too when AT200s arrive

That's transport Scotland's plan I believe.

 

[SkinnyDave]

I am not hearing anything from RMT or Aslef on this yet unless they are waiting on changeover before kicking off