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Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

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theironroad

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Honestly this forum drives me mad. I already said that all 156s have toilet tanks fitted, I drive them every day, it's blatantly obvious to traincrew as there are significant differences after the tanks were fitted yet people think they know better! There are NO 156s or 158s without CET tanks. None. Zero. Zilch.


Are you sure that's zero?

Are you sure you're sure?

:)
 
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Carlisle

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I can assure you as someone who does work with them, it is a big issue.
Agreed, but the thread suggests it’s little more than a technicality involving a very small number of trains exceeding a perceived deadline by a little bit. besides a decade ago weren’t the RMT campaigning against Southern introducing 313s because they didn’t have any toilets at all .:s
 
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43096

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Agreed, but the thread suggests it’s little more than a technicality involving a very small number of trains exceeding a perceived deadline by a little bit. besides a decade ago weren’t the RMT campaigning against Southern introducing 313s because they didn’t have any toilets at all .:s
Perhaps the RMT needs to be fitted with controlled emission tanks, so it catches all the effluent coming out of their PR department and before the rest of us get sprayed with it.
 

mcmad

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Agreed, but the thread suggests it’s little more than a technicality involving a very small number of trains exceeding a perceived deadline by a little bit. besides a decade ago weren’t the RMT campaigning against Southern introducing 313s because they didn’t have any toilets at all .:s
Given there is no date for even a second refurb set, I'm not sure how you can claim that it will only exceed the perceived deadline by a little bit. Given the current rate of delivery, and given the other TOC's also waiting for essentially the same product it could be a race to get them all delivered by the end of the franchise never mind end of 2019.

Also it might only be 9 sets (at the moment) but given the intensity of the services they will operate then its an order of magnitude above the LNER/XC/charter services that those defending the move point to.
 

Maxfly

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I suppose Scotland route banning 'red zone / warning working' a good few years ago does mean the likely hood of workers being sprayed by waste as the trains pass is lessened a great deal.
 

Highlandspring

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Yes, although it’s still entirely possible if you’re working on an adjacent line in a seperated green zone or on the lineside.
 

Mingulay

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Another shamboliic day courtesy of Scotrail best ever railway in the central belt

Scotrail App showing trains going that were never going Dunblane station staff in the dark. I think the only conclusion to draw is. Ignore the Scotrail app if there is any disruption , it makes matters worse.
 

absolutelymilk

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Anyone know at what point it will be decided whether Abellio have met the targets necessary for the three-year franchise extension from 2022 to 2025?
 

380101

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Anyone know at what point it will be decided whether Abellio have met the targets necessary for the three-year franchise extension from 2022 to 2025?

There isn't an extention from 2022 to 2025. Its a 10year franchise that has a break clause in it which can be activated by either Abellio or Transport Scotland in 2020 and there is then a 2 year withdrawal period.
 

Northhighland

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You wouldn't be getting very far in the Pentalina in this:

View attachment 51555

Here's a good ideological rant about Scottish Ferries: http://www.leithermagazine.com/2014/04/15/pays-ferryman-notes-scandal.html

In the case of Northlink they miss so many vital points, the Pentalina is smaller and nimbler because it has to be to operate between the points it does, the flip side of that is that by Pentland Firth standards she's a 'fair weather' craft. The Pentalina doesn't sail through storms, it can not stand in for a turn to Shetland and back, all factors on the design and specification of the Hamnavoe. The Scrabster Stromness route also connects in with public transport which is relevant to the many heated debates on here about the economics of the Far North Line.

Much is made about the shorter crossing from Gills Bay, the greater frequency is it's main benefit, the time saving only exists if the 30minutes saved on the boat isn't spent driving at either end. The claim that the Pentland Ferries has never had any public support misses out that the Gills Bay infrastructure was built by the Orkney Islands Council in the failed attempt to introduce a short sea crossing of around 30mins from Gills Bay to Burwick.

Building the Pentalina took longer than planned and half way through it's journey to Scotland it had to return to the shipyard.

The mentality and attitude towards rural connectivity and communities is so poor in the UK compared to much of the rest of Europe, certainly when you look at the more enlightened attitudes in Nordic countries. It has improved somewhat with the return of the Scottish Parliament, but if this was a Nordic country we'd not be having this debate because either the railway or A9 or more likely both would already extend to Kirkwall.

Much of your post is inaccurate and very misleading. The picture you show of the Hamnavoe heading to Orkney shows it heading in through the Firth using much of the Gills - St Margarets Hope route, in poor weather it has to take the much longer route via Scapa Flow into Stromness, mirroring much of the Pentalina route, which tells its own story.

Pentland Ferries are currently building a replacement for the very successful Pentalina. The MV Alfred will be on the route for next summer offering increased capacity for both passengers and freight to meet seasonal demand. There is no need to increase capacity on the Northlink route. Nor is there a need to book ahead at any time of the year. There will probably be need next year though to increase the subsidy yet again to Northlink as passengers take advantage of the increased capacity offered via Pentland Ferries.

The infrastructure at Gills Bay was not provided by Orkney Islands Council. The ill conceived and poorly delivered service they tried to introduce utilised infrastructure that wasn't fit for purpose, that is why it failed. The terminals now in place In Gills and orkney were built and are constantly being improved by Pentland Ferries. With not a single penny of support from the taxpayer and considerable obstruction from officialdom at every single step of the way.

Gills bay does have a connecting bus service to Wick and Inverness. Your point about driving times is pertinent, most people visiting Orkney will be going to Kirkwall, not Stromness. Journey time to Kirkwall from Inverness via Gills is about an 90 minutes quicker than via Scrabster. Hence why the Gills service carries more passengers and more freight, at no cost to the taxpayer.

Your point around the delays to Pentalina entering service are also mistaken, yes the ship was delayed due to contaminated fuel supplies loaded en-route. However again this was fixed with no taxpayer support. The vessel has run very reliably on the route it was specifically designed for. It is interesting that taxpayers fork out a subsidy of around £140 per passenger on the North link Ferry. If that subsidy were available to Pentland Ferries the owner has stated he would not charge for the service at all.

Northlink ferry last year had the pretty much the same reliability figures as the Short sea route, Pentalina runs as many days as the Hamnavoe. It also does with a much smaller crew, (less than half) and a third of the fuel costs. Some would argue that is much more efficient and is what happens when you design the correct vessel for a route, not an over-specified ship that requires a massive crew and drinks diesel. Passengers seem to be voting with their feet, as are freight companies. Pentalina is full all summer long and busy over the winter. I am sure the new vessel will continue to expand tourism in Orkney and increase the local economy. Pentalina has proved a very suitable vessel for this route, she is certainly not a "fair weather vessel".

It is possible that you could see Pentalina in Lerwick, that is a potential summer route being considered. A welcome boost to the Shetland economy if it happens. Hamnavoe has made very few trips to Lerwick in its operational life. Certainly wouldn't be value for money for its build cost, £28m. Pentalina cost £7.5m. We paid for Hamnavoe, we paid nothing at all for Pentalina.

As to Calmac, Ferguson may be building their ships, but they are built to a Calmac design. Goodness knows what that debacle is costing the taxpayer as everything about Calmac finances are shrouded in secrecy and no-one actually knows how much they cost the taxpayer. They have recently frequently run vessels on routes that are not suitable, with severely reduced capacity due to breakdowns. You don't have to search far on Google to find serious complaints about the services Calmac provide.

The Pentland Firth routes are clear indication of why governments shouldn't run ferries.
 

Steamysandy

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I refer to the previous post which is so biased as to be unreal.
Northlink is not government operated - it is run by Serco who took it over under franchise.They also operate the Caledonian Sleeper train at the present time.
If the Hamnavoe is so irrelevant,why is there always a huge row when it is taken off for maintenance?
I live at the other end of Scotland but I watch the goings on.
Serco to take over ScotRail anyone?
 

mde

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Serco to take over ScotRail anyone?
I doubt they'd touch it with a barge pole. ScotRail is much more heavily scrutinised than Caley Sleeper, so, Serco's meticulous attempts at running things with every possible cost cut would not go unnoticed.
 

Northhighland

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I refer to the previous post which is so biased as to be unreal.
Northlink is not government operated - it is run by Serco who took it over under franchise.They also operate the Caledonian Sleeper train at the present time.
If the Hamnavoe is so irrelevant,why is there always a huge row when it is taken off for maintenance?
I live at the other end of Scotland but I watch the goings on.
Serco to take over ScotRail anyone?
Serco run the service they are contracted to by government. However prilovides the crew is largely irrelevant, it still costs the taxpayer )£140 for every passenger that boards the ship. Huge row over naintenance? Where?
 

Northhighland

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Serco on Caledonian sleeper has been no great improvement. It’s ok but no much different. Not much better.

Running the whole network. Please no. Their track record shows they are poor, no better than Abellio.
 

Steamysandy

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Serco run the service they are contracted to by government. However prilovides the crew is largely irrelevant, it still costs the taxpayer )£140 for every passenger that boards the ship. Huge row over naintenance? Where?
Over the last few years every time the Hamnavoe goes for maintenance,a freight ship is substituted and there are regularly questions about why a freight ship is used not only in the Orcadian but also at Hollywood.
It's interesting that I can see a likeness between the Hamnavoe and a ship used on the New Zealand inter Island ferry( which was bought from Stena Line) but can you tell me where there are any ships like Pentalina?
Incidentally I have a very good connection with sea facing connections in Stromness
 

haggishunter

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It is possible that you could see Pentalina in Lerwick, that is a potential summer route being considered.
Oh so more cherry picking of what profit can be scrapped off, while leaving a bigger subsidy to maintain the year round resilient lifeline services that the Island Communities need. You state government should have no role in ferry provision, so are you planning to round up the inhabitants of most of the Scottish islands.

Your post rubbishing my post was mostly stuff and nonsense. As mentioned in other threads the attitude towards rural connectivity in Scandinavia (both physical and electronic) is light years ahead of the UK - devolution is making some progress to address it, but we are so far behind and too many critical powers in terms of telecommunications are reserved to Westminster. I work with some rural businesses who more and more are struggling to carry out basic business functions because of complete lack of rural connectivity.
 

najaB

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I wasn't aware Westminster run the entire worlds telephone systems? :rolleyes:
They don't. Which is why you can't plug BT-spec phones into US phone jacks. You can, however plug any BT-spec phone into any Oftel-licenced PSTN provider's NTE and get dialtone. And there's a single, UK-wide numbering plan, no (well few) radio frequency clashes, etc.
 

NotATrainspott

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They don't. Which is why you can't plug BT-spec phones into US phone jacks. You can, however plug any BT-spec phone into any Oftel-licenced PSTN provider's NTE and get dialtone. And there's a single, UK-wide numbering plan, no (well few) radio frequency clashes, etc.

There's a difference between the technological and the economic side of telecoms regulation. No one is seriously suggesting you use devolved powers to run telephones at a different voltage or fibre optics at a different wavelength. But, things like implementing a single state-run national infrastructure monopoly and moving all operators to tenant status (like MVNOs) would definitely be a worthwhile job. You need something like that if you want to guarantee nationwide coverage and parity of service. Since Westminster is not interested, it's the thing that the Scottish government could implement themselves if they had all the necessary powers. Just having the ability to subsidise the existing structures isn't an answer if those structures are inherently inefficient at providing service.
 

najaB

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But, things like implementing a single state-run national infrastructure monopoly and moving all operators to tenant status (like MVNOs) would definitely be a worthwhile job.
While that is a good idea for ensuring rural connectivity, it's a poor idea where urban/suburban areas are concerned. Competition between network providers has driven innovation and lowered prices (for the most part) where the population density is high enough to support multiple networks (cf cable operators v BT).
 

InOban

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Cable operators? There's only one independent - Virgin. Everyone else uses the BT/Openreach infrastructure.
 

yorkie

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