Scotrail Full Alcohol Ban

[yorksrob]

They're generally terrible ciders though - glorified alcopops like Krapparberg. I've honestly only seen two or three pubs in Britain that have decent cider but no good beer, and they've tended to be rough places in Somerset!

I used to enjoy having the odd perry or cider in the Cider Tap (opposite the Euston Tap), however I think it's become more craft bere now !

 

[Purple Orange]

Seems we have a fair few Cider connoisseurs on the forum. Can anyone recommend any good ciders to try that are available in supermarkets in the north?

I’m a beer drinker and I enjoy tasting all various varieties. If it is brewed in Luton, I’m not interested. Quality over quantity is my take. I rarely touch cider on the basis that what I usually end up trying is not as good as a proper beer (whether it be English, German or Belgian).

 

[route101]

It’s hit and miss. TPE sold Cloudwater, who make some fantastic beers. I don’t know if they still do sell it, and even at roughly 3% it was far superior to a can of Stella or Carling! I also quite liked the ale Virgin used to sell - I think it was Bollington, so another small brewery. Not sure what Avanti sell these days.

Avanti had Wrekin Brewery in a gold can I got in first. Yes I remember TPE stocking Cloudwater. I think they stock for masses. I like craft and real ale, is that wrong? Don't tend to buy beer of trolley as its likely to be warm.

 

[Purple Orange]

Avanti had Wrekin Brewery in a gold can I got in first. Yes I remember TPE stocking Cloudwater. I think they stock for masses. I like craft and real ale, is that wrong? Don't tend to buy beer of trolley as its likely to be warm.

Nothing wrong with craft or real ale! In fact, surely Cloudwater is in that category too.

 

[alangla]

Bringing it back to the topic in hand, there’s nothing right about a can of Tennents that’s been sat on a trolley for 6 hours on a summer’s day. The CET tank contents are probably more palatable, hence why bringing your own from Sainsbury’s in the Buchanan Galleries is much more attractive.

 

[radamfi]

Scotland seemingly doesn't care how it looks. Hotels are already banned from serving residents the national drink with or after their evening meal.

Why have hotels banned Irn-Bru? Is it the excessive sugar content?

Edit: just seen someone posted the same joke earlier!

 

[flitwickbeds]

I do think though that if the journey time of the train is more than three hours, TOCs should make an effort to provide appropriate catering

The trouble with making a decision based on journey time (3 hours) is that it splits the catering operations up for a TOC. If we are talking about the on-board shop, it is far easier to have a standard product range than to pick and choose based on how far the train is travelling. Take the London-Birmingham services as an example. 1 tph will have alcohol sold on-board because it continues to Scotland, while the other two would not because they terminate in the West Midlands. Or if a unit is doing a Birmingham/Manchester to London service then at Euston it needs to be prepared for doing a stretch to Glasgow, thus requiring a bigger stock rotation.

You also then potentially include the journey split up by a big city where most people get off and a different set of people get on. For example the Bedford to Brighton journey time is over 2.5 hours, and I'm sure no-one would advocate for Thameslink to serve anything on board, let alone alcohol!

 

[yorksrob]

You also then potentially include the journey split up by a big city where most people get off and a different set of people get on. For example the Bedford to Brighton journey time is over 2.5 hours, and I'm sure no-one would advocate for Thameslink to serve anything on board, let alone alcohol!

Not so. London to Brighton has traditionally had buffet cars, pullman cars, buffet trolleys etc. No reason not to serve drinks and snacks on an important inter-urban express flow.

 

[Purple Orange]

Not so. London to Brighton has traditionally had buffet cars, pullman cars, buffet trolleys etc. No reason not to serve drinks and snacks on an important inter-urban express flow.

It was also traditional to wear bowler hats, the city was dominated by the established upper classes and working in to the wee hours was far less prevalent. Some things come to an end.

 

[yorksrob]

It was also traditional to wear bowler hats, the city was dominated by the established upper classes and working in to the wee hours was far less prevalent. Some things come to an end.

Bowler hats go out of fashion. A tipple doesn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bowler hats go out of fashion. A tipple doesn't.

Well, it sort of does. How often do people have liquid lunches these days, for instance?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Seems we have a fair few Cider connoisseurs on the forum. Can anyone recommend any good ciders to try that are available in supermarkets in the north?

Generally Waitrose and Booths will have good ranges. Morrisons has some very pleasant stuff, Sainsburys is ok and Tesco surprisingly poor.

Look for cider from the Three Counties (Herefordshire, Gloucestershire, Worcestershire) or the West Country (Somerset, Devon, Cornwall). Usually you'll find it in 500ml bottles but sometimes a 2L or 3L bag-in-a-box.

Avoid anything fizzy or with added (non-apple) fruit, or anything in a can or plastic bottle. If it's not from those two cider-producing areas be very wary, though there are those who like Aspalls (from Suffolk) or Kentish ciders which tend to have a sharp, pure taste. Anything claiming to be cider from London, Sweden or New Zealand will be bilge.

Westons is consistently good - some of the supermarket own-brand premium ranges are Westons. Supermarkets sometimes stock bottles from the medium-sized cider-makers such as Sheppy's, Gwynt y Ddraig or Orchard Pig, all excellent. The Aston Manor brands (e.g. Friels, Kingstone Press) aren't as good as they should be. Thatchers do a few good ciders but have been drifting towards the (better end of the) mass market with Gold and Haze. Oh, and the Co-op's own Tillington Hills is unexpectedly good!

 

[kje7812]

Seems we have a fair few Cider connoisseurs on the forum. Can anyone recommend any good ciders to try that are available in supermarkets in the north?

I agree with Doctor Fegg's selection, though depending how far north you go, you might end up getting some Thistly Cross of which I'd recommend Original, Traditional and Whisky Cask (that one can be a bit heavy so go carefully).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Generally Waitrose and Booths will have good ranges.

Interesting you say that as I've found Waitrose very poor for range of ciders - basically all the other supermarkets are much better.

 

[yorksrob]

Westons is consistently good - some of the supermarket own-brand premium ranges are Westons.

I do like their Perry !

 

[tbtc]

If there are rules, they need to be simple and appear fair to people, to avoid doubts. If there's going to be an alcohol ban on ScotRail services then it needs to be on all ScotRail services - the idea that you can trust Dundonians to behave themselves drinking on the hourly HST to Edinburgh but that they can't be trusted on the hourly 158 to Edinburgh seems asking for trouble.

I can see some merit in the "only allowed to drink booze that's sold on board", I suppose - it may make the trolley considerably more lucrative and encourage a better range of alcohol to be sold on board - plus you can easily restrict "supply" of booze by not passing the trolley down the train (if you can't do anything about the Great British Public's insatiable "demand" for alcohol).

Bowler hats go out of fashion. A tipple doesn't.

Well, it sort of does. How often do people have liquid lunches these days, for instance?

Exactly - it may be that in years to come people are surprised at the notion that some people felt they needed alcohol to make a train journey bearable (and inflict their behaviour on fellow passengers and rail staff) in the way that it seems crazy now that smoking was fine on trains (and even crazier that bus companies restricted smokers to rear seats, as if the smell wouldn't waft its way down the vehicle!).

I used to manage a couple of pints each lunchtime, but that was the culture at the time - just like smoking was back then - even frequenting Coopers at Leeds station in the pre-Wetherspoons days - but that was then - times change - as I said earlier in the thread I don't think you'd be allowing alcohol consumption on board trains if it wasn't already the case - we have a great focus on "safety" on threads here, Network Rail take safety very seriously... but then we permit people to get into a situation where they can be a danger to themselves and to rail staff and can create a hostile environment to other passengers.

 

[Purple Orange]

Thanks @Doctor Fegg for a very thorough post. I'll get a selection tomorrow. Cheers

 

[47271]

I've just come back to this thread as the original poster. I've marvelled at a few interesting twists and turns including beer and cider recommendations, but best of all the fury over 'trainspotters' romanticising luxury rail travel in the Highlands. I didn't see that one coming...

I'm relieved that there seems to be a reasonable consensus that consumption of alcohol sold on board is something worth holding on to.

 

[yorksrob]

If there are rules, they need to be simple and appear fair to people, to avoid doubts. If there's going to be an alcohol ban on ScotRail services then it needs to be on all ScotRail services - the idea that you can trust Dundonians to behave themselves drinking on the hourly HST to Edinburgh but that they can't be trusted on the hourly 158 to Edinburgh seems asking for trouble.

We have this situation all over the network where particular services are designated "dry". It's a nuisance in some cases, but better than banning everything everywhere !

 

[SuperNova]

We have this situation all over the network where particular services are designated "dry". It's a nuisance in some cases, but better than banning everything everywhere !

Dry trains can be a pain in the backside to police, but I think for certain trains and stations, it's really effective. York during Ebor festival for example.

Issue is, I know so many who use the railway because of alcohol. They want a drink and therefore can't drive. Gigs, football, days out, food festivals. Promoting dry trains and not allowing some who've had a few drinks and are a bit loud is turning revenue and people away from a railway that will desperately need these people back from 2021/22 onwards. What we need to see is more security for staff and passengers. Whether that is BTP or security contractors.

 

[yorksrob]

Dry trains can be a pain in the backside to police, but I think for certain trains and stations, it's really effective. York during Ebor festival for example.

Issue is, I know so many who use the railway because of alcohol. They want a drink and therefore can't drive. Gigs, football, days out, food festivals. Promoting dry trains and not allowing some who've had a few drinks and are a bit loud is turning revenue and people away from a railway that will desperately need these people back from 2021/22 onwards. What we need to see is more security for staff and passengers. Whether that is BTP or security contractors.

Yes, I agree very much.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

Banning all alcohol consumption is yet another example where the rest of us in Scotland have to pay for the behavior of the Fitba gypes in the central belt ruining it.

My worst railway experience was getting caught between Rangers and Celtic fans in Queen Street one night, when both sides started throwing cans at each other over the barriers.

Would happily ban football fans from trains too

If there are rules, they need to be simple and appear fair to people, to avoid doubts. If there's going to be an alcohol ban on ScotRail services then it needs to be on all ScotRail services - the idea that you can trust Dundonians to behave themselves drinking on the hourly HST to Edinburgh but that they can't be trusted on the hourly 158 to Edinburgh seems asking for trouble.

I can see some merit in the "only allowed to drink booze that's sold on board", I suppose - it may make the trolley considerably more lucrative and encourage a better range of alcohol to be sold on board - plus you can easily restrict "supply" of booze by not passing the trolley down the train (if you can't do anything about the Great British Public's insatiable "demand" for alcohol).





Exactly - it may be that in years to come people are surprised at the notion that some people felt they needed alcohol to make a train journey bearable (and inflict their behaviour on fellow passengers and rail staff) in the way that it seems crazy now that smoking was fine on trains (and even crazier that bus companies restricted smokers to rear seats, as if the smell wouldn't waft its way down the vehicle!).

I used to manage a couple of pints each lunchtime, but that was the culture at the time - just like smoking was back then - even frequenting Coopers at Leeds station in the pre-Wetherspoons days - but that was then - times change - as I said earlier in the thread I don't think you'd be allowing alcohol consumption on board trains if it wasn't already the case - we have a great focus on "safety" on threads here, Network Rail take safety very seriously... but then we permit people to get into a situation where they can be a danger to themselves and to rail staff and can create a hostile environment to other passengers.

I agree with this 110%. There's a consensus among most of the public that drunks imposing their behaviour on the public isn't really acceptable. While no-one is suggesting that drunks shouldn't be allowed to board, I think more restrictions on drinking inboard are long overdue.

 

[willgreen]

Would happily ban football fans from trains too

At all times, or only on match days?

 

[SuperNova]

My worst railway experience was getting caught between Rangers and Celtic fans in Queen Street one night, when both sides started throwing cans at each other over the barriers.

Would happily ban football fans from trains too

More revenue down the pan...

 

[dcsprior]

The last time I was on a train here in Scotland I was travelling with my bandmates from Shawfair (Eskbank in their case) to Glasgow Queen Street. It was around lunchtime and we had 2 beers each. None of us caused any trouble.

On the way back, delayed sitting at Newcrighall waiting for the police to come as a result of some idiot who was drunk before boarding.

Only one of these would've been impacted by a ban on consuming alcohol on board, and it would've been the wrong one. I know this is one anecdote, but I suspect that most drinking on board does not lead to problems and most drink-related issues onboard are caused by was was consumed prior to boarding.

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

More revenue down the pan...

Maybe we could charge them full price to ride in freight wagons? With the amount of damage they can cause and the cost of extra police and security I doubt the railway makes a profit...

 

[Millisle]

My worst railway experience was getting caught between Rangers and Celtic fans in Queen Street one night, when both sides started throwing cans at each other over the barriers.

Would happily ban football fans from trains too


I agree with this 110%. There's a consensus among most of the public that drunks imposing their behaviour on the public isn't really acceptable. While no-one is suggesting that drunks shouldn't be allowed to board, I think more restrictions on drinking inboard are long overdue.

Drunks are not allowed to board, legally. I took pleasure in seeing one denied boarding at Carlisle recently by BTP after his condition was noted to them by railway staff. Railway Byelaw 4.

 

[willgreen]

Maybe we could charge them full price to ride in freight wagons? With the amount of damage they can cause and the cost of extra police and security I doubt the railway makes a profit...

Football fans, except in a tiny minority of cases, do not cause damage to rolling stock. This is a stereotype rooted in the 1980s. Football fans are not hooligans anymore.

 

[yorksrob]

My worst railway experience was getting caught between Rangers and Celtic fans in Queen Street one night, when both sides started throwing cans at each other over the barriers.

Would happily ban football fans from trains too


I agree with this 110%. There's a consensus among most of the public that drunks imposing their behaviour on the public isn't really acceptable. While no-one is suggesting that drunks shouldn't be allowed to board, I think more restrictions on drinking inboard are long overdue.

You've got that the wrong way round. It would be more effective to stop rowdy drunks getting on board in the first place.

 

[paul1609]

If the choice of ale at a pub's rubbish, I can go to another one. On the train, you'd be stuck with whatever the TOC wanted to put on their trolley.

That said, some TOC's have decent offerings:

GW - St Austell Brewery
Great Anglia - Adnams
South Eastern used to do Shepherd Neame when they still had trolleys.
South West Railway had the badger brewery if I recall.

If you think Shepherd Neame is a decent offering I can see why you were excited to Yorkshire.
(Whitstable Bay isn't too bad as a purchase of last resort)