Cut the political chatter. Its off-topic. If anyone wants to talk about how hard done by/how much better (delete according to your political view) Scotland is then do so on a new thread in General Discusson.
The brief for the Intercity stock was very much neutral on exactly which option would be chosen leaving that choice up to the operator.
The expectation was very much that there were 4 likely options that would meet the brief:
The 170s however were unlikely to meet the bonus speed improvement criteria that were a preferred but not a required option for Intercity in the franchise spec, unless they were re-engined which would bring all sorts of emission compliance issues to be considered.
- 170s with internal re-organisation and vestibule doors to stop the passenger space opening directly onto the Highland Winter;
- Voyagers but with seat realignment and the toilet issues sorted;
- Refurbished HSTs;
- New DMU or Hybrid stock.
I'd certainly say its too early to suggest that refurbishment of HSTs was the wrong option compared to new stock. Equally I'd say its too early to suggest that Serco were wrong to suggest that new stock was the answer on the Caledonian Sleeper rather than refurbishment.
Both schemes have suffered delays but the judgment will need to be on the quality and reliability of the final product as both projects demonstrate that new or refurbished stock are equally capable of delayed introductions.
Doesn’t matter what Glasgow station it uses to arrive/depart for Waverley. It’s the Central connection and why it’s had electrification and new trains before anywhere else by NR/SR.
£120 million revamp and platform extension on Queen St Station will duty serve Central Line in the future if needs be. Planning.
Glasgow is like London for transport. Edinburgh stupidly went with trams instead of capacity and new SR stations, the tram line follows the railway at a much higher install cost.
Cut the political chatter. Its off-topic. If anyone wants to talk about how hard done by/how much better (delete according to your political view) Scotland is then do so on a new thread in General Discusson.
Central Scotland of three cities, when it’s in franchise agreement and name 7 cities, I’m not even gonna nit pik the landmark order should be in order when they can’t even see 4 cities and 3 cities isn’t fitting the 7 cities requirement lol
It’s a shame they destroyed the 7 marketing with a slap dash spilt of the graphic, it’s more shocking no one at A SR picked up on that for engine liverly.
Thanks for posting the link to that graphic. I'm trying to work out the landmarks. From what I can make out, and going from right to left:What are the seven cities in the logo, this is the image that's split across the two sides of the powercar:
http://www.davidgordonltd.co.uk/hom...LLIO-SCOTRAIL_HST-LIVERY-WIP_2018-01-23-2.jpg
From left to right is it Perth, Aberdeen, Dundee, Inverness, Edinburgh, Stirling, Glasgow?
I'n not understanding the point about Edinburgh/Glasgow being on the units, it wouldn't make sense to omit them when the HSTs will be going to those cities along with the other five.
Thanks for posting the link to that graphic. I'm trying to work out the landmarks. From what I can make out, and going from right to left:
- Clyde Arc and the Crane (Finnieston?) - Glasgow
- Wallace Monument - Stirling
- Edinburgh Castle, and I think it's the Royal Scots Greys monument - Edinburgh
- Inverness Castle and Flora McDonald statue - Inverness
- unsure what it's called, but it's in Dundee
- William Wallace Statue - Aberdeen
- Perth waterfront
Dundee is the war memorial at the top of The Law.
Thank you - I will amend my post accordingly.Dundee,war memorial on top of the Law.
Law Hill is tautological - Law means hill
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There’s a picture of the Law in the refurbished waiting room in Dundee, where they’ve labelled it the Law Hill.
I tweeted a picture of it, and mentioned Scotrail’s error. I got a tweet back citing Wikipedia, stating that the locals call it the Law Hill.
Suddenly I understood the concept ‘mansplaining’.
It will be interesting to be able to directly compare dwell times of refurbished and unrefurbished coaches; how much time do pwer doors actually save?
This. You took the words right off my keyboard, even before I'd read the rest of what comes below.
Where were they going to get the extra intermediate cars from for the four car versions?
Worth noting "Trolley based catering services and limited toilet facilities also result in a less than ideal level of passenger facilities on board the Class 170’s, when combined with the low level noise from the underslung engines and inherent interior vibration the Turbostar fleet offers a relatively poor level of passenger comfort and refinement"
The proposed first class upgrade isn't very inspiring Vs the GWR first class on HST.
Don't get me wrong, my eyebrows were raised very high when I found out that the SR franchise went for the HSTs. However, they have, and there are reasonably sound reasons behind it - for better or worse, as it has turned out. And that's that.
Everyone has a choice to make. Either get behind it - or sit and complain about what "might have been", which is quite a big waste of time and arguably not for this thread.
Hate to be that guy but a 4 car 755 has a fair bit more power on diesel than even a short HST, it should in fact be one of the fastest - if not, the accelerating diesel units on the network.
I don't believe so; the 3 car versions are only fitted with two engines (Producing 956kW/1280hp), the 4 car units have four (1912kW/2560hp).From what I read about the 755s, aren't the 3 car versions the (slightly) more powerful versions?
The various options which the bidders no doubt looked at were dictated by cost. Any completely new build would presumably have high lease costs, and the use is only going to be around 10/15 years, before electrification replaces the vast majority. Also, a new build - complete with testing and approvals etc, may well have not met the timetable for their introduction.
So refurbing existing stock, which could be quickly brought into service and improving performance would have seemed like a good idea. Abellio (and passengers and TS) have been let down by Wabtec, who have clearly over promised and under delivered.
The various options which the bidders no doubt looked at were dictated by cost. Any completely new build would presumably have high lease costs, and the use is only going to be around 10/15 years, before electrification replaces the vast majority.
So you’ve seen the contract have you? It might exclude delays due to additional work arising - we don’t know.Wabtec presumably promised they could deliver the refurbishment programe to the timescale ScotRail specified. The fact that they arnt doing so is contractually their fault.