ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Rail Blues]

Imminent I hear....

We've been here before.

 

[AndrewE]

Imminent I hear....

Can't tell if that is said jokingly... we have heard that (and similar words) lots of times!
- beaten to it!

 

[Highland37]

Can't tell if that is said jokingly... we have heard that (and similar words) lots of times!
- beaten to it!

I would never joke about this project. It's clearly going to plan and not in any way damaging confidence in rail travel in Scotland or causing more people to drive....

 

[deltic08]

Imminent I hear....

It was imminent 3rd week in January!!! Must be something serious to take 7 weeks, and counting, to sort.

 

[Highland37]

My other half went to Glasgow for the weekend. 170s all the way on the HML. Given that Scotrail have less 170s than they used to, it says something when every train they were on was a 170. 158 for me to Aberdeen last week and 170 back to Inverness from Edinburgh. This week I expect a 158 to Aberdeen again. Not much chance of an HST.

Have Kilmarnock even started the work they are meant to do yet?

 

[Far north 37]

Are the maintenance teams gaining confidence in looking after the HST fleet? I assume there is some mentoring from the GWR teams that used to look after them? Could also do with a period of no breakdowns.

Well inverness has maintained mark 3 coaches for a long time so doubt it will not to much of a problem for them.

 

[Rail Blues]

It was imminent 3rd week in January!!! Must be something serious to take 7 weeks, and counting, to sort.

At this point, i wonder if even the most resolute of advocates of this scheme still think it is a good idea?

 

[Goldromans]

Have Kilmarnock even started the work they are meant to do yet?

The official statement said that the first coaches would arrive at Kilmarnock in the second quarter of 2019. Just hope it won’t be June until the first ones arrive though...

 

[jingsmonty]

I got the 1739 Edinburgh-Inverness as an HST again on Friday night, the last time I got an HST on any Scotrail service was as long ago as 8 February.

That time the set rolled into Waverley from the depot, empty of passengers but full of litter. Exactly the same thing happened on Friday but with an added bit of negligence - old seat reservation labels still in place. I still don't understand why this service can start out with a clean 170 but a filthy HST. The thing felt it hadn't been touched for weeks, if the labels had 'GWR' printed on them and I'd found a long dead copy of the Bristol Evening Post on the seat then I wouldn't have been surprised.

We set off around ten minutes late because of the earlier problems at Newbridge and the ensuing dislocation at Waverley, fair enough.

There were plenty of apologies for lateness but no acknowledgement in any announcements that seat reservations didn't apply, so we were then treated to five minutes of chaos after the Haymarket stop while infrequent passengers with luggage debated their seats on the basis of their tickets and the incorrect labels. One Kirkcaldy commuter moved seat twice, and then gave up and spent the rest of the journey standing even though there were vacant seats in the coach. The overall experience was poor, at least on a 170 those having to stand would have been a bit more comfortable.

Do they think that running the unrefurbished sets means that they can get away with careless day to day operation until the refurbed fleet is complete? That's what it feels like on the basis of the few trips I've made where an HST has actually turned up.

It really isn't great, and it's low level stuff like this that reinforces the idea of a complete lack of confidence in the project overall.

As an aside on the reservations muddle, does anyone know to what train type Scotrail intercity reservations are made to at the moment - I'm assuming that it's still 170s?

If it's booked for an HST, the reservations will be for an HST. If a 170 (or worse, a 158) that turns up, there won't be any seat reservations (as well as being short formed).

I have to say, the basic cleanliness of HST coaches isn't an issue for sets departing from Inverness - the cleaning staff treat all types of train with the same high level of care.

 

[chuff chuff]

Well looks like one of the refurbished sets didn’t make it out,so far.

 

[jingsmonty]

0833 Edinburgh - Inverness is a 158 today, vice HST .

 

[Highland37]

...the cleaning staff treat all types of train with the same high level of care.

Hmm, it's a tangent, but I don't think that is a term I would use.

Sorry I didn't understand what you meant by "vice" above.

 

[gordonjahn]

Hmm, it's a tangent, but I don't think that is a term I would use.

Sorry I didn't understand what you meant by "vice" above.

The second definition in the dictionary:

vice
/ˈvʌɪsi/
preposition
preposition: vice

1. as a substitute for.
   "the letter was drafted by David Hunt, vice Bevin who was ill"

Origin

Latin, ablative of vic- ‘change’.

 

[Highland37]

Thanks. I wasn't familiar with that usage. It's a term which could be used often currently. Luckily we have ancient 158s to substitute for absent and even more ancient HSTs.

 

[gordonjahn]

Thanks. I wasn't familiar with that usage. It's a term which could be used often currently. Luckily we have ancient 158s to substitute for absent and even more ancient HSTs.

Until I looked up that definition, I wasn't aware that this usage is pronounced vai-see and not as in "vice-president" - every day is a school day!

 

[Highlandspring]

The railway industry uses the word 'vice' in this way all the time. It's very much part of the railway vernacular.

 

[jingsmonty]

Hmm, it's a tangent, but I don't think that is a term I would use.

Sorry I didn't understand what you meant by "vice" above.

"Vice" = substituted for. Apologies, it's a common phrase on the railway, 'railspeak'!

 

[Northhighland]

Pretty poor situation with use of HST’s. Most passengers will be blissfully unaware though. However time is marching on if the HML has 158’s deputising for 4 coach HST’s over the summer then I feel the public backlash will be considerable.

It just seems so poorly managed.

 

[nat67]

It just seems so poorly managed.

mainly between ScotRail, Wabtec and the ROSCO's.

 

[jingsmonty]

Pretty poor situation with use of HST’s. Most passengers will be blissfully unaware though. However time is marching on if the HML has 158’s deputising for 4 coach HST’s over the summer then I feel the public backlash will be considerable.

It just seems so poorly managed.

A severe lack of rolling stock - to be honest, a 158 is barely sufficient just now, I shudder to think what summer will be like on the HML!

 

[nat67]

A severe lack of rolling stock - to be honest, a 158 is barely sufficient just now, I shudder to think what summer will be like on the HML!

Hot, sweaty, capped and cramped also under floor.

 

[Steven_G]

I thought 158's were a rarity for mainlines now.

Scotrail are sure doing a lot of juggling with rolling stock. 365's just gone back, 314's almost out of service, 158 and 170's reducing. I for one respect the guys doing all the scheduling.

Apologies for asking - can't find answer in quick scan of 221 pages but are we short of HST's sets in number (ignoring the unfurbished/refurbished split)?

 

[gsnedders]

Apologies for asking - can't find answer in quick scan of 221 pages but are we short of HST's sets in number (ignoring the unfurbished/refurbished split)?

Operationally, yes, we are short. ScotRail have in total the number of HSTs they should ultimately have—but some of those HSTs are currently having their coaches refurbished.

 

[Steven_G]

Operationally, yes, we are short. ScotRail have in total the number of HSTs they should ultimately have—but some of those HSTs are currently having their coaches refurbished.

Thanks. Refurbished in one way or other ie classic - making fit for purpose and full refurb - sliding doors etc?

 

[Esker-pades]

I thought 158's were a rarity for mainlines now.

Scotrail are sure doing a lot of juggling with rolling stock. 365's just gone back, 314's almost out of service, 158 and 170's reducing. I for one respect the guys doing all the scheduling.

They were. But, with the cascade of 170s and the serious lack of HSTs, they have had to be brought in short term.

 

[gsnedders]

Thanks. Refurbished in one way or other ie classic - making fit for purpose and full refurb - sliding doors etc?

I meant the full refurb. I think all the work that was going to be done on the classic sets has been done?

I forget the number, but IIRC Wabtec currently have three rakes of coaches, so we're at least three short.

 

[Highland37]

They were. But, with the cascade of 170s and the serious lack of HSTs, they have had to be brought in short term.

Is it short term though? For a short term, it's pretty long. People seem to be blindly hoping that Wabtec can do what they have failed to do so far - keep to a schedule.

 

[route:oxford]

The official statement said that the first coaches would arrive at Kilmarnock in the second quarter of 2019. Just hope it won’t be June until the first ones arrive though...

I don't think they could have been less specific if they tried.

The first Scottish Quarter starts 28th March

2nd - 28th June
3rd - 28th September
4th - 28th December

But... They might be referring to months 4,5 & 6 of the Scottish Government's & Transport Scotland's financial year.

Or... They could be referring to months 4,5 & 6 of the calendar year...

So that means anything between 1st April and 5th October. If everything goes to plan.

 

[DannyMich2018]

It was imminent 3rd week in January!!! Must be something serious to take 7 weeks, and counting, to sort.

It's beyond a joke now, only 2 refurbs have been delivered and only one has really seen any use, at this rate it will probably be 2021 or something till all 26 are done-I think even the most optimistic people have given up hope of any more refurbs coming any time soon.....it's also disgraceful that many 170s have now been sent south of the border despite the shortage of stock in Scotland

 

[Esker-pades]

Is it short term though? For a short term, it's pretty long. People seem to be blindly hoping that Wabtec can do what they have failed to do so far - keep to a schedule.

I should have put short term in quotation marks. It shouldn't be something that is a regular occurrence.