ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[92002]

I'm fairly sure that grandfather rights apply to the vehicle, rather than the design, otherwise you'd just keep building vehicles to older designs. Also, you seem fairly sure that making the door opening wider is simple, but after all, bunging diesel engines under 769s or D78s, or even installing the sliding doors into mk3s should have been simple...

Grandfather rights apply to the vehicle, its design and operating on the railway. So a older design is not governed. Y current TSI needs.

 

[James James]

Are you using engineer in the sense of "person who comes and fixes things" or the "has an engineering degree" sense? Because the latter certainly still seems to plenty of brits in it out in industry, and plenty more in University.

The work being done probably requires neither the former nor the latter - the former would require lots of specific training to do the work required, the latter would require a lot of training in terms of being able to do hands-on work (I would know, I'm one of those with a degree - I'd be nigh on useless in terms of actually doing the mechanical work needed). It requires highly skilled metalworkers/fabricators/etc (who tend to have gone through a few years of vocational training), and the UK doesn't produce many of them.

 

[The_Engineer]

The work being done probably requires neither the former nor the latter - the former would require lots of specific training to do the work required, the latter would require a lot of training in terms of being able to do hands-on work (I would know, I'm one of those with a degree - I'd be nigh on useless in terms of actually doing the mechanical work needed). It requires highly skilled metalworkers/fabricators/etc (who tend to have gone through a few years of vocational training), and the UK doesn't produce many of them.

There's no doubt that WABTEC are short of suitably qualified and experienced mechanical fitters and fabricators - there's a great big notice on their factory (visible from the station) advertising for them. From my own experience with power operated train doors they are not easy beasts to fit to a brand new bodyshell. In a 30-40 year old bodyshell you will have many more risk areas to deal with. I do not envy them their task.

 

[BRX]

Hopelessly low res.

Try this link instead:-

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh_EEIiW4AULoGd.jpg:orig

Livery/paint job looks nice. The recessed doors spoil the mk3 look though. You can see they fit awkwardly into the slightly bevelled end shape of the body. I've always thought the original doorss on mk3s are quite a neat design, with the hinge part way round the corner.

 

[InOban]

The work being done probably requires neither the former nor the latter - the former would require lots of specific training to do the work required, the latter would require a lot of training in terms of being able to do hands-on work (I would know, I'm one of those with a degree - I'd be nigh on useless in terms of actually doing the mechanical work needed). It requires highly skilled metalworkers/fabricators/etc (who tend to have gone through a few years of vocational training), and the UK doesn't produce many of them.

I must apologise for using the word engineer without making it clear that I was referring to the skilled master craftsmen (or women) rather than the graduate professionals. It reflects badly on this country that the professional engineer does not have the same status as other professions such as architect. And that the engineering craftspeople are not recognised as fundamental to the real economy. They create long-term value for us all.

 

[Mag_seven]

Getting back on topic, it was really weird seeing the ex FGW coaches whilst going past Eastfield today!

 

[Highland37]

Back on topic, We know the programme is behind and there are coaches at Wabtec. Are these the first set of refurbished coaches or ones that show the programme is beyond the initial stages?

 

[Doomotron]

Livery/paint job looks nice. The recessed doors spoil the mk3 look though. You can see they fit awkwardly into the slightly bevelled end shape of the body. I've always thought the original doorss on mk3s are quite a neat design, with the hinge part way round the corner.

I think the GWR and SC HSTs should have had the Chiltern-style doors, I think they'd look much better.

 

[jopsuk]

I think the GWR and SC HSTs should have had the Chiltern-style doors, I think they'd look much better.

They would.

They would also, as has been explained many times, be much, much more expensive and at this point, probably be much further behind schedule.

 

[Northhighland]

They would.

They would also, as has been explained many times, be much, much more expensive and at this point, probably be much further behind schedule.

How can they be further behind given none have been delivered?

 

[jopsuk]

How can they be further behind given none have been delivered?

because clearly there is work in progress, and they would likely be less progress had they used the design used at Chiltern

 

[Northhighland]

because clearly there is work in progress, and they would likely be less progress had they used the design used at Chiltern

That would surely depend on the level of effort applied so your point is at the very best hypothetical.

 

[najaB]

That would surely depend on the level of effort applied so your point is at the very best hypothetical.

Of course it's hypothetical, but if one design takes 300 hours per coach and the other takes 450 then the latter will take longer - all other things being equal.

 

[jingsmonty]

because clearly there is work in progress, and they would likely be less progress had they used the design used at Chiltern

Exactly - the Chiltern style doors, whilst the do look neater, also took a lot of work as each coach is effectively hand built & every coach is slightly different. In effect, every individual coach requires an individual rebuild for the doors. The Scotrail/GWR door mod is simpler to fit, allowing a standard module to be fitted to each coach.

Wabtec really need to get the finger out & get these coaches sorted out! If the proposal to run 2 sets temporarily with slam door stock is correct, Wabtec should be paying for the staff training costs this will entail!

 

[Highlandspring]

If the proposal to run 2 sets temporarily with slam door stock is correct, Wabtec should be paying for the staff training costs this will entail!

I like how an internet ‘rumour’ has now become a ‘proposal’. Presumably the next stage is to refer to it as a ‘plan’?

 

[InOban]

Just like the 365s started as a rumour? Or bringing up some 153s to strengthen WHL services. - now being officially considered.?

 

[gingertom]

Just like the 365s started as a rumour? Or bringing up some 153s to strengthen WHL services. - now being officially considered.?

most rumours start from credible sources.

 

[scotraildriver]

The source of this "rumour" is a very credible and high up person in Scotrail. It Will happen if necessary.

 

[jingsmonty]

I like how an internet ‘rumour’ has now become a ‘proposal’. Presumably the next stage is to refer to it as a ‘plan’?

This is a definite proposal which some staff have been told about - not just an internet rumour

 

[Rail Blues]

most rumours start from credible sources.

Not really, some do, some don't. Some will be a misunderstanding or a result of Chinese whispers, people putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5 and some may be a result of a sad sack wanting to appear in the know or pretending to be a train driver. I'm not saying that this is what's happened in this case, but the Internet is chock full of guff and this site isn't immune to that.

 

[InOban]

A train left Craigentinny for Wabtec today at 11.30. currently passing through Newcastle. On RTT. Gone to collect the first rake?

 

[marks87]

A train left Craigentinny for Wabtec today at 11.30. currently passing through Newcastle. On RTT. Gone to collect the first rake?

There's an identical light engine schedule that was cancelled due to a brake problem:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R41147/2018/07/16/advanced

2x43s originally planned, but now they've got some Mk3s for company?

 

[Highlandspring]

This was 5E23 formed of XC powercars 43378 and 43304 sandwiching coach 42374.

 

[gingertom]

This was 5E23 formed of XC powercars 43378 and 43304 sandwiching coach 42374.

no sign of a return working on Real Times Trains yet (patience!)

 

[TheMuttley]

I recently heard that it had been suggested (as above) that Scotrail were planning to run slam-door HST stock, as a temporary measure. However, bizarrely, it was suggested that this would be between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central, which I found somewhat strange, given that they clearly have been running the training HSTs into Queen St, already. Thoughts?

 

[jopsuk]

I recently heard that it had been suggested (as above) that Scotrail were planning to run slam-door HST stock, as a temporary measure. However, bizarrely, it was suggested that this would be between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central, which I found somewhat strange, given that they clearly have been running the training HSTs into Queen St, already. Thoughts?

Thoughts? That someone's deeply confused. There's sufficient EMUs for the route via Motherwell and it would be very odd to use them via Shotts.

 

[najaB]

Thoughts? That someone's deeply confused. There's sufficient EMUs for the route via Motherwell and it would be very odd to use them via Shotts.

The only reason that someone might propose Central rather than Queen Street is that that someone thinks that there wouldn't be enough room to safely open the doors in the tunnel in the event of an evacuation.

Given that slam-door stock operated into Queen Street previously, this is a pile of...

 

[Indigo Soup]

Given that slam-door stock operated into Queen Street previously, this is a pile of...

And I believe has done so within the last few months - didn't the Fort William sleeper call at Queen Street High Level recently?

 

[marks87]

And I believe has done so within the last few months - didn't the Fort William sleeper call at Queen Street High Level recently?

The Lowland Sleeper left from Queen Street when there was engineering work at/near Central.

 

[380101]

I recently heard that it had been suggested (as above) that Scotrail were planning to run slam-door HST stock, as a temporary measure. However, bizarrely, it was suggested that this would be between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central, which I found somewhat strange, given that they clearly have been running the training HSTs into Queen St, already. Thoughts?

Potentially could be using them for extra trains during the open. They ran specials last time when it was at Gleneagles.