ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[blackhill]

Thanks for explanation, there is certainly plenty of room at station.

 

[route:oxford]

That's is interesting considering I don't think any Hst's start/terminate at Perth.

When there are problems on the Highland Main Line, it's not uncommon for the Highland Chieftain to start at Perth. I believe it's always had the kit for overnight power.

The early morning commuter services from Dunblane, Bridge of Allan and Stirling to Glasgow & Edinburgh usually start at Perth. "Last Trains" Northbound from Edinburgh & Glasgow usually go to Perth.

It wouldn't surprise me if, even with electrification, if there is an HST Service from Dunblane & Bridge of Allan in the morning peak.

On another note although I look forward to there arrival ,it is only a little way forward to the standard we had a few years ago. A video has recently been posted on YouTube 'Perth in 1989' shows push/pull Glasgow-Aberdeen sets with 3-4 standard and 1-2 full length first class coaches and a coach with red banner I assume a buffet on these services.

If its the same vid I was watching it has a few reminders about how awful things were back in the 1980s. Many services through Stiring and Perth had loco-hauled coaches with slidey windows instead of air-conditioning. Not sure if they were Mk1 or Mk2 stock. Then there were the "Strathclyde Transport" heritage DMUs making turns up to Perth (and beyond) - bet that was fun.

Interestingly there was Push-Pull unit in the undernoted vid which had a sleeper in the consist. Did the Time Distort Matrix work with any Mk3 stock or would they have needed to run a wire through the Sleeper?

 

[The_Engineer]

Interestingly there was Push-Pull unit in the undernoted vid which had a sleeper in the consist. Did the Time Distort Matrix work with any Mk3 stock or would they have needed to run a wire through the Sleeper?

The TDM push-pull system used the RCH jumper so in principle would work with any coaching stock Mk.I to Mk.III.

 

[43096]

When there are problems on the Highland Main Line, it's not uncommon for the Highland Chieftain to start at Perth. I believe it's always had the kit for overnight power.

As far as I’m aware, whenever the Chieftain has terminated at or started from Perth, it has run empty stock to/from Craigentinny.

 

[GrimShady]

If its the same vid I was watching it has a few reminders about how awful things were back in the 1980s. Many services through Stiring and Perth had loco-hauled coaches with slidey windows instead of air-conditioning.

Interestingly there was Push-Pull unit in the undernoted vid which had a sleeper in the consist. Did the Time Distort Matrix work with any Mk3 stock or would they have needed to run a wire through the Sleeper?

Awful in what sense? Rolling stock then was a far better traveling environment the the plastic we have had to suffer since 1989.

The Sleeper coach was from the internal Aberdeen Scottish Sleeper service run from Queen Street I believe, they were part of parcel trains if memory serves.

 

[Stoney1979]

When there are problems on the Highland Main Line, it's not uncommon for the Highland Chieftain to start at Perth. I believe it's always had the kit for overnight power.

The early morning commuter services from Dunblane, Bridge of Allan and Stirling to Glasgow & Edinburgh usually start at Perth. "Last Trains" Northbound from Edinburgh & Glasgow usually go to Perth.

It wouldn't surprise me if, even with electrification, if there is an HST Service from Dunblane & Bridge of Allan in the morning peak.



If its the same vid I was watching it has a few reminders about how awful things were back in the 1980s. Many services through Stiring and Perth had loco-hauled coaches with slidey windows instead of air-conditioning. Not sure if they were Mk1 or Mk2 stock. Then there were the "Strathclyde Transport" heritage DMUs making turns up to Perth (and beyond) - bet that was fun.

Interestingly there was Push-Pull unit in the undernoted vid which had a sleeper in the consist. Did the Time Distort Matrix work with any Mk3 stock or would they have needed to run a wire through the Sleeper?

At risk of going off-topic here, however, briefly, I'd certainly agree that things really weren't great back in the 80s. I'd take an un-overcrowded 170 any day as compared to how things were in general back then. HSTs excluded, obviously.....

 

[deltic08]

Awful in what sense? Rolling stock then was a far better traveling environment the the plastic we have had to suffer since 1989.

The Sleeper coach was from the internal Aberdeen Scottish Sleeper service run from Queen Street I believe, they were part of parcel trains if memory serves.

There was a sleeper to/from Inverness too. Very useful if you had to be in Glasgow early or just for a good night sleep on a 7 day Scottish Rail Rover. Last used the last week of 37s on passenger duty.

 

[jingsmonty]

Triangle at Gorgie opposite Haymarket depot in Edinburgh and a choice of 2 at Cowlairs in Glasgow, obviously Inverness as well. Nothing handy for Aberdeen though.

Nowhere to turn a full length HST in Inverness - the Ground Frame into Platform 5 can only take (just) a 2 car 158...

The sets must get turned somewhere - the Inverness HST training train has turned up in Perth in reverse formation.

 

[jingsmonty]

There was a sleeper to/from Inverness too. Very useful if you had to be in Glasgow early or just for a good night sleep on a 7 day Scottish Rail Rover. Last used the last week of 37s on passenger duty.

I believe there is a proposal (although I may be going off topic here - apologies) to have a later Northbound departure from Edinburgh...this may be when the full HST tibetable is introduced. I think the departure time was after 21.00, which would be handy. I've used the old overnight train to/from Inverness with a rail rover many years ago - seem to remember the GLasgow & Edinburgh portions being split at Stirling?

I can't see the overnight trains making a comeback, but later departures would be useful & may even be of assistance to the diagramming department, due to the lack of HST stabling space in Inverness.

 

[najaB]

The sets must get turned somewhere - the Inverness HST training train has turned up in Perth in reverse formation.

Most likely by an odd number of journeys around the Edinburgh Sub.

 

[Highlandspring]

Most likely by an odd number of journeys around the Edinburgh Sub.

Could be, but also a couple of the training runs for the Dundee and Haymarket based sets include a trip round the Fife Circle which results in them turning.

 

[BRX]

I believe there is a proposal (although I may be going off topic here - apologies) to have a later Northbound departure from Edinburgh...this may be when the full HST tibetable is introduced. I think the departure time was after 21.00, which would be handy. I've used the old overnight train to/from Inverness with a rail rover many years ago - seem to remember the GLasgow & Edinburgh portions being split at Stirling?

I can't see the overnight trains making a comeback, but later departures would be useful & may even be of assistance to the diagramming department, due to the lack of HST stabling space in Inverness.

Yes I believe there is/was a plan for an additional later service, would certainly be handy including for connections from further south. Eg. It would make it nearly possible to have a full working day in London and still get back to Inverness.

 

[jingsmonty]

Yes I believe there is/was a plan for an additional later service, would certainly be handy including for connections from further south. Eg. It would make it nearly possible to have a full working day in London and still get back to Inverness.

Agreed - 1935 is too early for the last train from the Central Belt to Inverness to be leaving...you can get from Aberdeen to Inverness at 2200!

A late (post 2100) departure North to Inverness could form an early morning departure (such as the current 0453 to Edinburgh via Aberdeen). Would save space at Inverness, as it would just be a case of it arriving, possibly being fuelled & sent on it's way.

 

[scotraildriver]

Could be, but also a couple of the training runs for the Dundee and Haymarket based sets include a trip round the Fife Circle which results in them turning.

The Eastfield backshift training train which runs to Inverness in the evening gets turned every day as it runs via Cumbernauld. The morning one runs via Queen St so stays the same way round.

 

[jingsmonty]

The Eastfield backshift training train which runs to Inverness in the evening gets turned every day as it runs via Cumbernauld. The morning one runs via Queen St so stays the same way round.

Ah, mystery solved - cheers for that!

 

[route101]

GNER ran some XMAS extras from Perth im sure .

 

[Northhighland]

Agreed - 1935 is too early for the last train from the Central Belt to Inverness to be leaving...you can get from Aberdeen to Inverness at 2200!

A late (post 2100) departure North to Inverness could form an early morning departure (such as the current 0453 to Edinburgh via Aberdeen). Would save space at Inverness, as it would just be a case of it arriving, possibly being fuelled & sent on it's way.

Remember going to a Scotland game at Hampden and getting a train back into Inverness in the early hours from Glasgow. When id that stop?

 

[JohnMcL7]

Agreed - 1935 is too early for the last train from the Central Belt to Inverness to be leaving...you can get from Aberdeen to Inverness at 2200!

A late (post 2100) departure North to Inverness could form an early morning departure (such as the current 0453 to Edinburgh via Aberdeen). Would save space at Inverness, as it would just be a case of it arriving, possibly being fuelled & sent on it's way.

That Aberdeen train seems more for locals ('local' up to Huntly anyway) to get home though rather than people getting to Inverness as the train is mostly empty by Elgin and last time I travelled on it, I was the only one left by Inverness.

 

[Craig2601]

I believe there is a proposal (although I may be going off topic here - apologies) to have a later Northbound departure from Edinburgh...this may be when the full HST tibetable is introduced. I think the departure time was after 21.00, which would be handy. I've used the old overnight train to/from Inverness with a rail rover many years ago - seem to remember the GLasgow & Edinburgh portions being split at Stirling?

I can't see the overnight trains making a comeback, but later departures would be useful & may even be of assistance to the diagramming department, due to the lack of HST stabling space in Inverness.

Is there not a plan to use old Caledonian sleeper stock and have a sleeper service from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness/Thurso service?

 

[gsnedders]

Is there not a plan to use old Caledonian sleeper stock and have a sleeper service from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness/Thurso service?

Someone was suggesting it, yes. It seems currently dubious that the necessary subsidy for it to be feasible would be forthcoming.

 

[najaB]

Is there not a plan to use old Caledonian sleeper stock and have a sleeper service from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness/Thurso service?

There is a proposal (rather than a plan) which is discussed in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wick-sleeper.143068/

 

[InOban]

In the draft timetable the last train from Edinburgh will be at 21.01, are Inverness 00.23. S'bound it's at 20.25 are Edinburgh 23.58, but there's no Glasgow connection. For there, you'll need to leave at 19.01

 

[adrock1976]

Have power cars 43130 and 144 arrived in Scotland yet, or are they still with GWR?

 

[sbd]

I believe 130 maybe at ely papworth sidings
144 was paired with 186 last night at London Paddington

 

[jingsmonty]

That Aberdeen train seems more for locals ('local' up to Huntly anyway) to get home though rather than people getting to Inverness as the train is mostly empty by Elgin and last time I travelled on it, I was the only one left by Inverness.

The 1935 Edinburgh - Inverness is a direct (via Perth & Aviemore)...think you're getting mixed up with the slightly earlier train (1929 ish, I think) that runs via Aberdeen. Fair enough, it confuses staff, never mind passengers, having the 2 trains leaving close together.

 

[jingsmonty]

Is there not a plan to use old Caledonian sleeper stock and have a sleeper service from Glasgow/Edinburgh to Inverness/Thurso service?

I heard that rumour too - nice idea, but logistically difficult. Who will run it? Serco or Scotrail? No Scotrail drivers passed out on Locos (apart from HST drivers). Think we're going off topic, so I'll suggest having the former Mk3 sleeper coaches electical systems converted to run on 415v 3 phase (& alliance buckeye couplers fitted) & sandwiched between 2 HST power cars! Would save any shunting moves & you'd have drivers trained as well...could Wabtec handle converting even more Mk3s to power door/CET toilets though...!

 

[CJSwan]

The 1935 Edinburgh - Inverness is a direct (via Perth & Aviemore)...think you're getting mixed up with the slightly earlier train (1929 ish, I think) that runs via Aberdeen. Fair enough, it confuses staff, never mind passengers, having the 2 trains leaving close together.

The 19:35 is Edinburgh to Inverness via Dundee and Aberdeen, due in Inverness at 00:08.

The 19:42 is Edinburgh to Inverness via Perth, due in Inverness at 23:16.

Although tonight the 19:35 left AFTER the 19:42... Just to mix things up a bit

 

[route:oxford]

In the draft timetable the last train from Edinburgh will be at 21.01, are Inverness 00.23. S'bound it's at 20.25 are Edinburgh 23.58, but there's no Glasgow connection. For there, you'll need to leave at 19.01

That's really shabby!

At the moment the last service from Inverness to Glasgow is 20:15. The timetable change will bring forward the last service to Glasgow forward by 74 minutes?

 

[jingsmonty]

The 19:35 is Edinburgh to Inverness via Dundee and Aberdeen, due in Inverness at 00:08.

The 19:42 is Edinburgh to Inverness via Perth, due in Inverness at 23:16.

Although tonight the 19:35 left AFTER the 19:42... Just to mix things up a bit

Apologies....the timetable has changed since I last used it!

 

[marks87]

The 19:35 is Edinburgh to Inverness via Dundee and Aberdeen, due in Inverness at 00:08.

The 19:42 is Edinburgh to Inverness via Perth, due in Inverness at 23:16.

Although tonight the 19:35 left AFTER the 19:42... Just to mix things up a bit

There must be an argument in favour of the 19.35 being advertised at Edinburgh and Haymarket as Nairn?

I know that false destinations have their critics on here, but surely this is a situation where it’s entirely logical.