GrimShady
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Didn't the 158s destined for the Pennine routes have an updated engine? Changing the transmission though would definitely create a new class or at the very least a sub class.
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ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion
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Didn't the 158s destined for the Pennine routes have an updated engine? Changing the transmission though would definitely create a new class or at the very least a sub class.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
This is no great surprise, as at low speeds the hydrodynamic transmission, while highly reliable, wastes rather a lot of energy by creating circular currents in and heating up transmission fluid rather than it going directly to the wheels like it does on a mechanical transmission.
jingsmonty
Member
I remember these 2 units kicking about with the higher powered engines when I was a conductor - they took longer to rev up, but were certainly noticeably quicker. Unfortunately, I seem to remember hearing that one of the engines caught fire...?
Again, the Class 170s are just not designed for long distance passenger work - they aren't bad trains, as such, just more suited to commuter type services.
The 'turbocharging the 170' idea (to steal a quote from HiTrans, I think) has come & gone. In fact, didn't this form the basis of FirstGroups last franchise bid, that Abellio won? Scotrail have chosen HST as the next step. I would agree, however, that the Stadler FLIRT looks like an interesting idea for the future - more so than a Hitachi Class 800 type. Indeed, I would like to see something like this replacing Class 158s, never mind the HST!
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
No, Transpennine units were fitted with the standard Cummins 350hp engine. Ten class 158s intended for use on the Welsh Marches, 158863 - 872, were (and still are) fitted with a higher power 400hp Cummins power unit.
It seems somewhat superfluous to speculate what the next Scotrail franchise might be operating in 2030 when the HSTs have yet to even enter service!
Highland37
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Makes perfect sense to speculate and discuss as it pushes the discussion ahead and focusses minds. With the current political chaos it is hard to forecast though as so much is a variable.
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
It makes no sense at all on a thread specifically about the introduction of the Scotrail HSTs, and barely any more sense in general to speculate on possible rolling stock policy over a decade down the line when no-one can even begin to predict what manufacturers might be offering, or even which manufacturers might be in the frame at that point. The HSTs will be with Scotrail for at least ten years, trying to second guess what's going to happen after that seems nonsensical.
Highland37
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I disagree but each to their own. Given the delays by Wabtec there is not much else that can be done. This entire thread is speculation as there are no trains in service yet.
The creaking on the LNER service is indeed bad but has/will this been addressed for the Scotrail HSTs?
The creaking on the LNER service is indeed bad but has/will this been addressed for the Scotrail HSTs?
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
It hasn't: The train specification, elements of the refurbishment, stock deliveries and training programme have all been discussed as they've come to light. There's no need to go off into unrelated speculation just because there hasn't been any further progress right this very second.
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Northhighland
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Understand your point and think you are making a valid point that what is plan B if Wabtec cannot deliver the required outputs. the fact we have not seen a second set would suggest that we wont get even a set a month. If it is 4 sets a year as it really looks like just now, there will need to be a plan B.
The lack of communication on this is ridiculous. Sooner or later an MSP will bring up the issue and it will be a wider debating point. Cant see where the mushroom media strategy will pay dividends.
I had a random thought the other night - would we ever see LNER nab one of the Spare SR 43s to cover for a tech failure potentially? Sure LNER have spares or would just move everyone onto the next service but thought did occur... would look a bit different for sure!
sprinterguy
Veteran Member
There'll only be a short window of opportunity while LNER and Scotrail will be operating HSTs simultaneously, and from separate depots. Never say never, as LNER have had a Crosscountry power car (43285) on hire three days this week, thanks to them being maintained at the same depot for the time being, but it seems quite unlikely.
Stoney1979
Member
Presumably this "#intershi*ty" is the training train.
https://twitter.com/GentlemanJamie/status/1040654311817138179/photo/1
https://twitter.com/GentlemanJamie/status/1040654311817138179/photo/1
Stoney1979
Member
Just a single reply to avoid going off topic but yes I also remember the demise of the Deltic and intro of the HST on the ECML - and the screaming Valenta, having to hold hands over my ears as the rear power car went by.
Are they complaining about the non-Scotrail livery? Maybe a snide comment that the FGW livery looks like graffiti? Seems like social media really are a curse, has anyone put "GentlemanJamie down yet?
I bet a lot of other people would be grateful to travel in it pending repainting: it's a lot better than a 2-car DMU!
CC 72100
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I'm pleased that this hobby is so mature sometimes.
Please enlighten us - maybe some of us are too mature! I assumed the twitterer was not railway-aware and was just looking for a way to be critical.
Stoney1979
Member
Difficult to know what the poster means by "clean up" and why (s)he bothered posting the comment.
Main point was that it appears to be pics of the training train, and provides a good comparison of how much the new SR livery smartens up the Mk3s - on the outside at least.
Main point was that it appears to be pics of the training train, and provides a good comparison of how much the new SR livery smartens up the Mk3s - on the outside at least.
Callum Waring
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Did anyone catch the refurbished set whilst it was sitting in one of the terminating platforms at Dundee?
Callum Waring
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Did anyone catch the refurbished set whilst it was sitting in one of the terminating platforms at Dundee?
Has it moved from the sidings? Been there a couple weeks now doing guard training.
jingsmonty
Member
Looking forward to seeing the inside of the refurbished set. It certainly looks 'the business' from the photos!
Highlandspring
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It was put on public display in platform 2 at Dundee to tie in with the opening of the V&A Museum on Friday 14th September, although the set wasn’t opened up. Here’s a photo of it (not mine) -
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ajrm1976/30832174768
Ah, okay. I thought from the timing of the post that it was in there this weekend.
I guess that'll be a rare sight, an HST in the bay platforms at Dundee.
The semi-fasts to Glasgow/Edinburgh will still be 170/158-operated, and even when there's a blockade between Dundee and Aberdeen they still tend to use 1 and 4 for (what will become) the "InterCity" services.
Which means the fact a 2+5 won't fit into P3 is almost certainly more academic than the potential issues at Inverness
The semi-fasts to Glasgow/Edinburgh will still be 170/158-operated, and even when there's a blockade between Dundee and Aberdeen they still tend to use 1 and 4 for (what will become) the "InterCity" services.
Which means the fact a 2+5 won't fit into P3 is almost certainly more academic than the potential issues at Inverness
Highlandspring
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These days perhaps but CrossCountry HSTs used to depart from platform 2 daily. I’ve seen a GNER 2+8 half in/half out of platform 3 after an error by the signaller and driver too....
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As did (do?) Voyagers.
jingsmonty
Member
The refurbished HST really does look good - I'm not 100% sure putting debranded unrefurbished slam door HSTs into service is the right thing to do, but I'm guessing Scotrail's hand has been forced by potentially more 170s going off lease?
Is this officially confirmed as going ahead?
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