ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Highlandspring]

Funnily enough the refurbished set is about to do a driver training run to Haymarket as 2W44 1154 from Dundee yard, returning as 2W45 1338 from Haymarket.

 

[najaB]

Funnily enough the refurbished set is about to do a driver training run to Haymarket as 2W44 1154 from Dundee yard, returning as 2W45 1338 from Haymarket.

Was just about to post the same as looked out the office window and saw it leaving. I wonder if a forum member is driving?

 

[Highlandspring]

It was used because the other set needed fuel (for which it’s going to Perth this afternoon).

 

[dmkc]

Blimey; I suppose I should eat my hat then as I didn't expect to see that, let alone so soon!

In fairness it was very much speculative when i first suggested it. Am equally surprised lol

 

[scotrail170407]

Is the first Scotrail hst meant to be in service on October 8th? Also will it run Edinburgh- Aberdeen

 

[Sirius]

Read online that the LNER 1S03 Leeds to Aberdeen “failed” at Edinburgh today - was this a planned cancellation to return the Scotrail power car to Haymarket?

 

[gsnedders]

Read online that the LNER 1S03 Leeds to Aberdeen “failed” at Edinburgh today - was this a planned cancellation to return the Scotrail power car to Haymarket?

And presumably the fixed LNER power car was at Craigentinny? I presume LNER decided to just cancel it north of Edinburgh (and the return working) rather than pay for someone to drive their PC north and the ScotRail one back south?

 

[Callum Waring]

HST’s coming north. Presumably the ones talked about earlier.

 

[Highlandspring]

And presumably the fixed LNER power car was at Craigentinny? I presume LNER decided to just cancel it north of Edinburgh (and the return working) rather than pay for someone to drive their PC north and the ScotRail one back south?

It was a genuine failure, 43163 (the ScotRail one) lost all power.

 

[Highlandspring]

HST’s coming north. Presumably the ones talked about earlier.

43133 and 43136. Thanks for the enormous screenshot by the way.

 

[chuff chuff]

Usual slippage now looking at the 15th apparently.9:07 aberdeen to edinburgh will be one of it's runs.

 

[sprinterguy]

It was a genuine failure, 43163 (the ScotRail one) lost all power.

Whoops: Not the most auspicious of starts for the first time one of the refurbished power cars has been used in passenger service!

 

[dmkc]

Whoops: Not the most auspicious of starts for the first time one of the refurbished power cars has been used in passenger service!

I suppose when they considered any strategy for easing a PC back into regular service a full speed jaunt to the South wouldn't have been top of the list probably.
Bit unfortunate though.

 

[berwicksfinest]

Not the bit they were in. There's the compound bit around the corner near the river, these were on the sidings next to Ely North Junction.

Fingers crossed they don't get tagged!

Yep there's a nice new green compound around the Potters Sidings now, where the HST's are stored only the headshunt (and warehouses) not fenced off

 

[InOban]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scotrail-passengers-face-train-overhaul-delay-1-4807140

The boss is confirming that they will have to use unrefurbished sets because of the delays. No indication when the the next set is expected.

 

[Rail Blues]

On another thread there was a discussion as to why TOCs are going for new stock, much to Porterbrook's chagrin - this, the 442s, the 769s, all over budget/delayed or not fit for purpose. Might give a hint as to why more TOCs aren't going for the turds on the Rosco's books, however furiously the latter try and polish them.

 

[47271]

over budget/delayed or not fit for purpose. .

Like that hasn't happened with Scotrail new builds?

 

[Rail Blues]

Like that hasn't happened with Scotrail new builds?

Fair point, but every one of these recent attempts at re-using existing stock and making it suitable for the 21st century appears to have been an utter cock up and I'd forgotten about the self immoliating 230.

 

[Mingulay]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scotrail-passengers-face-train-overhaul-delay-1-4807140

The boss is confirming that they will have to use unrefurbished sets because of the delays. No indication when the the next set is expected.

I must look out my letter from Transport Scotland confirming the delivery of the refurbished trains was cast in stone as a contract was in place. Reaffirmed by Scotrail at a meeting I had in their offices. I suggested there was scope for delays. Assured no scope. Well well. !

Once again transport Scotland and or Scotrail management let us down. Ferries no better.

One would have taken as good management procedure That before any contract was in place wabtec were required to pilot a set refurb. See how long it takes. What problems they may find ? That too much common sense ?? Try before you buy !

 

[Rail Blues]

I was quite amused by the description of knackered stock with manual doors and in the livery of a previous Toc as 'operating in classic mode'

Next time my wife complains about the bed room still having the same crappy peeling woodchip wallpaper and threadbare carpet that it had when we moved in five years ago, I'll just tell her that it's in 'classic mode'

Wandering down the shop in my oldest jeans, a band t shirt from the 90s and a well worn hoody: I'm just operating in classic mode.

 

[jopsuk]

On another thread there was a discussion as to why TOCs are going for new stock, much to Porterbrook's chagrin - this, the 442s, the 769s, all over budget/delayed or not fit for purpose. Might give a hint as to why more TOCs aren't going for the turds on the Rosco's books, however furiously the latter try and polish them.

Don't forget the lengthy issues with the Renatus 321s and the abortive pilot to do the same with 317s

 

[swaldman]

To be fair, I'd consider most pre-refurb HST stock to still be an upgrade. Unless it's the GWR high-density layout, in which case, ugh. Do we know *which* GWR coaches they are?

 

[jingsmonty]

So has anyone traveled on the new sets?

Do they suffer from the screaching between coaches that has some members so concerned?

Any sign of bouncing or rattling on the HML?

I've travelled down on the training train when I was learning HSTs & I'd say the ride quality is superior to either a 158 or 170. Power car is a bit bouncier, mind you (not that that is relevant to the punters...!)..but, definetly, Mk3 rules over DMU on the HML for comfort.

I'd say the same about the LNER HST, although it's been a while since I travelled on it.

Incidentally, I've heard a rumour that LNER are planning to keep a large no. of their HSTs & refurbish them a la Scotrail, due to Azumas not having sufficient performance 'off the wires' - not strictly relevant to Scotrail, I know, but it says a lot to me that a brand new train can't effectively replace a so called '40 year old cast off'...just for those out there who keep trying to say that Scotrail should have gone for new trains...

 

[jingsmonty]

I thought all the GWR coaches had high density seating? The training train coaches do....
There is a lot of remarshalling required for the 'classic' sets, as they will all require to have a TGS coach - formation will be TGS, 2 other Standards & a 1st class. Don't think a buffet is planned (unless it's a trolley). I could be wrong though....don't think any 5+2 classic sets are being used.

To be fair, I'd consider most pre-refurb HST stock to still be an upgrade. Unless it's the GWR high-density layout, in which case, ugh. Do we know *which* GWR coaches they are?

This doesn't apply to the refurbished sets - I don't think they will be on separate diagrams either, will just be a case of turning up & seeing if it will be a 'refurb' or a 'classic' on the train.

 

[najaB]

Incidentally, I've heard a rumour that LNER are planning to keep a large no. of their HSTs & refurbish them a la Scotrail, due to Azumas not having sufficient performance 'off the wires'...

I'd take that with a pinch of salt - LNER has very little (no?) off the wire running at >100mph.

 

[Rail Blues]

I'd take that with a pinch of salt - LNER has very little (no?) off the wire running at >100mph.

Yep that sounds wibblish and I'd up the salt order to a skip load

 

[swaldman]

I thought all the GWR coaches had high density seating? The training train coaches do....

Unless things changed since I lived in GWR-land (2012ish), they had the "how many commuters can we pack in?" coaches for relatively short Bristol services, and versions with more tables for Plymouth and Penzance.

 

[route101]

I thought all the GWR coaches had high density seating? The training train coaches do....
There is a lot of remarshalling required for the 'classic' sets, as they will all require to have a TGS coach - formation will be TGS, 2 other Standards & a 1st class. Don't think a buffet is planned (unless it's a trolley). I could be wrong though....don't think any 5+2 classic sets are being used.


This doesn't apply to the refurbished sets - I don't think they will be on separate diagrams either, will just be a case of turning up & seeing if it will be a 'refurb' or a 'classic' on the train.

I thought they were getting a micro buffet .

 

[Stoney1979]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scotrail-passengers-face-train-overhaul-delay-1-4807140

The boss is confirming that they will have to use unrefurbished sets because of the delays. No indication when the the next set is expected.

Most interesting. So, that's the first real news on this for months, SR explicitly blaming Wabtec. They (SR) must have been forced into saying something for no other reason than time is running out. If the article is be believed, we can expect 9 "unrefurbisheds" coming along in Dec.

This must surely place a very heavy training and logistical burden on drivers and crews, given the short timescale involved?

 

[Stoney1979]

If it comes to pass that the unrefurished "40 year old English cast offs....second hand trains..." etc. etc. sets do come in it, will be fascinating to discover if the general public prefer them, or not, to a 158/170.....