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Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in

Falcon1200

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Seems we have managed to find a 1100 departure South today to run a GBRf charter train.

To be fair, without looking, I'd expect a Charter to have a less optimal path than a service train. So may not be feasible to run a passenger service at that time.

Indeed, that charter (1Z35) is booked to stand at Moy for 5 minutes, Aviemore for 18, and Kingussie for 11. Plus there is other added time later in the journey, although that may be for other reasons than simply pathing.
 
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92002

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Indeed, that charter (1Z35) is booked to stand at Moy for 5 minutes, Aviemore for 18, and Kingussie for 11. Plus there is other added time later in the journey, although that may be for other reasons than simply pathing.
All part of the joys of using a single line section. Regularly happens to current service trains too.
 

BRX

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That charter train literally takes twice as long as a regular service train to get as far as Stirling. About 5 hours vs about 2.5.

The 12.48 departure from Inverness gets to Perth & Stirling before it does.
 

Starmill

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It was not possible to run any more services at that time without major invedtment work On track.
Erm, I don't think anyone has said that.

Indeed, that charter (1Z35) is booked to stand at Moy for 5 minutes, Aviemore for 18, and Kingussie for 11. Plus there is other added time later in the journey, although that may be for other reasons than simply pathing.
Precisely.
 

92002

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That charter train literally takes twice as long as a regular service train to get as far as Stirling. About 5 hours vs about 2.5.

The 12.48 departure from Inverness gets to Perth & Stirling before it does.
All part of the service to enjoy the scenery and a meal. Nobody is really in a hurry and will no doubt enjoy the service and ambiance.

More than can be said on the ScotRail 158 and 170s services with no buffet or trolley onbiard or bar service Alcohol is banned on all ScotRail services.
 

tbtc

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All part of the service to enjoy the scenery and a meal. Nobody is really in a hurry and will no doubt enjoy the service and ambiance

Feels like you’re projecting your own preferences here. Plenty of people in the Highlands want a competitive service to the Central Belt. Jobs depend on it. Add an hour to journey times and they’ll switch to the A9.

Ambiance sounds lovely but not being sat in the same passing loop for twenty minutes.
 

92002

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Feels like you’re projecting your own preferences here. Plenty of people in the Highlands want a competitive service to the Central Belt. Jobs depend on it. Add an hour to journey times and they’ll switch to the A9.

Ambiance sounds lovely but not being sat in the same passing loop for twenty minutes.
My own preference woukd be to have a catering service on an HST. The alternative Citylink bus even manages refreshments. Which probably is why passengers prefer to use it and avoid the train.
 

BRX

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All part of the service to enjoy the scenery and a meal. Nobody is really in a hurry and will no doubt enjoy the service and ambiance.

More than can be said on the ScotRail 158 and 170s services with no buffet or trolley onbiard or bar service Alcohol is banned on all ScotRail services.
I actually agree with you to some extent; in the summer you could have some "relief" trains that were slower but hopefully not overcrowded, which might be attractive to tourist travellers especially if they had proper catering on board. And some imaginative marketing could make it into a positive. However, this particular example, the slowness is so extreme that I think you'd find a limited number of people who'd tolerate it.
 

lachlan

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What is really needed is investment to dual the line to improve reliability. Every time I’ve taken the highland main line or the Aberdeen-Inverness line we’ve has extended waits to allow a train in the opposite direction to pass
 

Railperf

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On single line sections it's not unknown for trains ro cross.
Losing heaps of time. The smaller passing loops such as Kincraig don't seem to allow simultaneous entry from each direction. So that means both trains being brought to a halt before the loop. One train is then cleared to enter. The second train is then allowed to enter from opposite direction and then both trains are cleared to leave. It is such a long winded process that loses way too much time. The only places that allow simultaneous arrival seem to be Blair Atholl and Aviemore. The complete HML needs resignalling and loops lengthened to minimise or elimintae this issue.
Better still - make it double track as much of the way as possible.
Just travelled Bernina and Glacier routes in Switzerland - Tirano to Chur and Chur to Brig. All single route but fully electrified with dynamic passing loops. It is so efficient in comparison. No waiting in any loops. No time lost whatsoever.
 
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92002

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Losing heaps of time. The smaller passing loops such as Kincraig don't seem to allow simultaneous entry from each direction. So that means both trains being brought to a halt before the loop. One train is then cleared to enter. The second train is then allowed to enter from opposite direction and then both trains are cleared to leave. It is such a long winded process that loses way too much time. The only places that allow simultaneous arrival seem to be Blair Atholl and Aviemore. The complete HML needs resignalling and loops lengthened to minimise or elimintae this issue.
Better still - make it double track as much of the way as possible.
Just travelled Bernina and Glacier routes in Switzerland - Tirano to Chur and Chur to Brig. All single route but fully electrified with dynamic passing loops. It is so efficient in comparison. No waiting in any loops. No time lost whatsoever.
One slight problem with doubling the Highland Main Line is the cost and whether it can be justified on the return on the investment costs. With the numbers of passengers who use the trains that could be very doubtful.

It could of course mean higher fares to pay for the work chasing passrngers away.

The Scottish government is currently doing duelling of the A9. So where the cash for the railway is going to cone from coukd be interedting.

If this were Switzerland as you siggest that may be a lot easier. Where many more passrngers use the trains. Perhaps a cheaper solution could be dynamic loops, but they don't cone cheap either.
 

The Puddock

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Losing heaps of time. The smaller passing loops such as Kincraig don't seem to allow simultaneous entry from each direction. So that means both trains being brought to a halt before the loop. One train is then cleared to enter. The second train is then allowed to enter from opposite direction and then both trains are cleared to leave. It is such a long winded process that loses way too much time. The only places that allow simultaneous arrival seem to be Blair Atholl and Aviemore.
Pitlochry too since the 2019 resignalling.
 

Railperf

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One slight problem with doubling the Highland Main Line is the cost and whether it can be justified on the return on the investment costs. With the numbers of passengers who use the trains that could be very doubtful.

It could of course mean higher fares to pay for the work chasing passrngers away.

The Scottish government is currently doing duelling of the A9. So where the cash for the railway is going to cone from coukd be interedting.

If this were Switzerland as you siggest that may be a lot easier. Where many more passrngers use the trains. Perhaps a cheaper solution could be dynamic loops, but they don't cone cheap either.
You won't attract people to the HML if it remains - slow - unreliable - not enough seats and more convenient to take the car. So investment is needed. Four coach HST's seemed to be an improvement, but despite their potentially superior performance and the spending of money to improve reliability, the proposed faster timetable has not been launched, and HST's frequently swapped out with smaller DMU's. The DMU's can run at higher speeds in places. There's no news on any track work changes to take advantage of the HST's better acceleration and ability to hold higher speeds on the climbs.
We are talking about long term investment here. LAst time I went to Inverness I saw loads of new houses and apartments being built. People are being attracted to live in the Highlands. These people will want to travel for work and pleasure. They will have a choice. Travel on a 2-hourly (at times) non-improving rail service or drive their cars down an improving A9 and get onto the public transport network from places such as Perth/ Stirling, Glasgow or Edinburgh where frequency and journey times are as good as driving.
 

92002

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You won't attract people to the HML if it remains - slow - unreliable - not enough seats and more convenient to take the car. So investment is needed. Four coach HST's seemed to be an improvement, but despite their potentially superior performance and the spending of money to improve reliability, the proposed faster timetable has not been launched, and HST's frequently swapped out with smaller DMU's. The DMU's can run at higher speeds in places. There's no news on any track work changes to take advantage of the HST's better acceleration and ability to hold higher speeds on the climbs.
We are talking about long term investment here. LAst time I went to Inverness I saw loads of new houses and apartments being built. People are being attracted to live in the Highlands. These people will want to travel for work and pleasure. They will have a choice. Travel on a 2-hourly (at times) non-improving rail service or drive their cars down an improving A9 and get onto the public transport network from places such as Perth/ Stirling, Glasgow or Edinburgh where frequency and journey times are as good as driving.
One major probkem with the HSTs is their reliability. Out of 24 sets ScotRail struggle to turn out double figures on a daily basis.

At one time the Highland Main Line was seriously being looked at for complete closure. That day may yet come.
 

Alanko

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That charter train literally takes twice as long as a regular service train to get as far as Stirling. About 5 hours vs about 2.5.

The 12.48 departure from Inverness gets to Perth & Stirling before it does.

It's a BLS tour, so shove them into a passing loop or bay platform to kill some time and they will all get their little pens out in fits of excitement!
 

185143

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It's a BLS tour, so shove them into a passing loop or bay platform to kill some time and they will all get their little pens out in fits of excitement!
You could probably add another vowel to that word without changing the meaning at all! :D

I'll get my coat before I get in trouble!
 

Ex-controller

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One major probkem with the HSTs is their reliability. Out of 24 sets ScotRail struggle to turn out double figures on a daily basis.

At one time the Highland Main Line was seriously being looked at for complete closure. That day may yet come.
No it won’t. Trying to work out if you’re trolling here.
 

Falcon1200

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At one time the Highland Main Line was seriously being looked at for complete closure. That day may yet come.

When was that? I worked for the railway, in Scotland, from 1984 to 2016 and am not aware of any plans, whatsoever, to close the Highland Main line. And before that, the nadir the route had reached in the 1960s was partly ameliorated by the redoubling of Blair Atholl/Dalwhinnie.

Think you will find the one who saved it was one Chris Green.

Nor do I recall any campaign by Chris Green (excellent manager though he was) being required to save the line.
 

louis97

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The smaller passing loops such as Kincraig don't seem to allow simultaneous entry from each direction. So that means both trains being brought to a halt before the loop. One train is then cleared to enter. The second train is then allowed to enter from opposite direction and then both trains are cleared to leave. It is such a long winded process that loses way too much time. The only places that allow simultaneous arrival seem to be Blair Atholl and Aviemore. The complete HML needs resignalling and loops lengthened to minimise or elimintae this issue.
Not necessary, if both trains are running on-time there is no reason for both to be brought to a stand. The train in the loop is timed to arrive early enough to be in clear for the other train to pass without stopping. If one train is late then whatever train will arrive first should go into the loop and the other one should not need to stop, assuming the delay to it is long enough. Of course in some circumstances where the delay is small you will end up with both trains needing to stop.
 

XAM2175

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We are talking about long term investment here. LAst time I went to Inverness I saw loads of new houses and apartments being built. People are being attracted to live in the Highlands. These people will want to travel for work and pleasure. They will have a choice. Travel on a 2-hourly (at times) non-improving rail service or drive their cars down an improving A9 and get onto the public transport network from places such as Perth/ Stirling, Glasgow or Edinburgh where frequency and journey times are as good as driving.
Long term investment is happening - it's the electrification of the line and the introduction of an entirely new fleet.
 

Ex-controller

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Think you will find the one who saved it was one Chris Green.
That might be the case (though I doubt it was ever that close to happening), but there’s the small issue of Inverness being by far the largest settlement in the Highlands and effectively being a gateway to the whole Far North and northwest mainland. Complete closure of what is an important transport artery from north to south would cause such a political stir anyone proposing it would be laughed out the room.
 

50002Superb

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Just coming back to this and back on topic.

What the current position with the ScotRail HST fleet as to:

1. Which are in working order
2. Which are stored permanently or awaiting parts (and where)
3. Which are currently being subjected to exams etc

Any information is greatly appreciated
 

hexagon789

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Just coming back to this and back on topic.

What the current position with the ScotRail HST fleet as to:

1. Which are in working order
2. Which are stored permanently or awaiting parts (and where)
3. Which are currently being subjected to exams etc

Any information is greatly appreciated
Unfortunately my usual source advised a couple months ago, that ScotRail were not wanting this precise information made public anymore.

Consequently, I no longer get updates beyond which sets are in service day-to-day (which you can get off RTT normally anyway).

My most recent info from 2 months ago is that four sets are stood down, leaving 21 for traffic as I advised previously.

The same two powers are still out of service at Haymarket - 128 & 169.

The fleet is otherwise the same as the previous update I gave; no further 2+5s have been made up.
 

43096

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Unfortunately my usual source advised a couple months ago, that ScotRail were not wanting this precise information made public anymore.
So they’re not at all embarrassed that 43128 has never turned a wheel in service for ScotRail after over 4 years?
 

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