Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in

[ld0595]

Now that we're in August, is there any indication that ASLEF still intend to instruct their drivers not to drive HSTs later this month?

 

[John Bishop]

Now that we're in August, is there any indication that ASLEF still intend to instruct their drivers not to drive HSTs later this month?

We haven’t heard a peep after the last update early July. The deadline is a week Saturday.

 

[92002]

Considering they have been safely in use for the last 50 years it would appear to be a case they may lose if the courts have to decide.

Moderator note: safety discussion continues at:

Are HSTs considered 'unsafe'?

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-hsts-4-years-in.239365/ Considering they have been safely in use for the last 50 years it would appear to be a case they may lose if the courts have to decide. The authors of the Stonehaven accident report may disagree...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[BRX]

I was on 1B84, the 1356 Aberdeen - Edinburgh, yesterday and the guard said that the set would have to be withdrawn on reaching Edinburgh because some of the toilets were unusable because their retention tanks were full.

This is probably isn't a rare event on the higher mileage diagrams, and I assume that it will be classed as an in service failure even though after a brief visit to the depot the set will be ready to go again.
It did make me wonder how much irratating shortcomings like this, which aren't really faults, have reduced the overall availability of the HSTs or the percentage of completed daily diagrams.

On longer distance diagrams is this problem unique to HSTs where space available in which to fit a tank had obviously governed its capacity?
For example, does a 156 going from Glasgow to Mallaig and back in the tourist season need a "toilet break"?

If it was happening regularly - then that would me more like a fault in the diagram planning, rather than a fault in the train.

Like you, I'm also curious about what the faults are that cause the HSTs to get pulled from service, or to be unavailable for their planned diagrams. Whether it's mainly a constellation of "small" things or not.

 

[InOban]

I came across a tweet showing that HA12 is back in service after a number of years out of action.

 

[InvHst]

I came across a tweet showing that HA12 is back in service after a number of years out of action.

May well have been me but yes HA12 back today after big exam

 

[hexagon789]

I came across a tweet showing that HA12 is back in service after a number of years out of action.

It was indeed.

Power cars - 43129 and 43037

Workings were - 1B70, 1A81 &1T50


Sunday 6th August

HA06 was doing 2+5 platform length testing at Inverness this afternoon in-between arrival from and returning to Glasgow.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

I came across a tweet showing that HA12 is back in service after a number of years out of action.

HA12 has never worked for ScotRail until now.

 

[hexagon789]

HA12 has never worked for ScotRail until now.

Hasn't it?

I thought it last worked on 23/03/21 when it operated 2L69 with power cars 43026 and 43144

 

[InvHst]

Hasn't it?

I thought it last worked on 23/03/21 when it operated 2L69 with power cars 43026 and 43144

I've definitely had HA12 had it 15th July 2020 operating the 1742 Edinburgh-Inverness I was onboard

 

[hexagon789]

I've definitely had HA12 had it 15th July 2020 operating the 1742 Edinburgh-Inverness I was onboard

I've checked my records, and it appears to have worked frequently enough pre-March '21.

 

[The exile]

I was on 1B84, the 1356 Aberdeen - Edinburgh, yesterday and the guard said that the set would have to be withdrawn on reaching Edinburgh because some of the toilets were unusable because their retention tanks were full.

On longer distance diagrams is this problem unique to HSTs where space available in which to fit a tank had obviously governed its capacity?
For example, does a 156 going from Glasgow to Mallaig and back in the tourist season need a "toilet break"?

If the Scotrail sets have had as many removed /locked out as their GWR counterparts have done, then it’s not surprising that the remaining ones can’t cope.

 

[jamieintercity]

So today is meant to be the last day of HSTs according to ASLEF but no news so far whether the HSTs be withdrawn or will continue in service from tomorrow for the foreseeable future

 

[chuff chuff]

So today is meant to be the last day of HSTs according to ASLEF but no news so far whether the HSTs be withdrawn or will continue in service from tomorrow for the foreseeable future

Was put out a couple of weeks ago that the date had been put back a week ago or two as it thought it would be insensitive to go on the anniversary.

 

[InvHst]

Was put out a couple of weeks ago that the date had been put back a week ago or two as it thought it would be insensitive to go on the anniversary.

Meeting on Wednesday according to press reports

 

[Davester50]

Are ScotRail paying the leases for the extra converted 5th cars that have languished in sidings for the last year or so?

 

[Goldromans]

HA06 was doing 2+5 platform length testing at Inverness this afternoon in-between arrival from and returning to Glasgow.

Is there a plan underway then for getting 2+5's in to Platforms 3 and 4 at Inverness? I know it's been discussed for a while know but didn't realise a solution had been decided on? Great news if so.

 

[hexagon789]

Is there a plan underway then for getting 2+5's in to Platforms 3 and 4 at Inverness? I know it's been discussed for a while know but didn't realise a solution had been decided on? Great news if so.

It seems as though though may well be, there have been a couple of clearance test runs recently - so must be for something. They've all been with 2+5 sets.

 

[John Bishop]

Is there a plan underway then for getting 2+5's in to Platforms 3 and 4 at Inverness? I know it's been discussed for a while know but didn't realise a solution had been decided on? Great news if so.

Platforms 3 and 4 are now cleared for 5+2 HSTs. Whether we get any more sets made up to 5 car is another question, but given the loadings on the HML these days, it needs to be done as a matter of urgency.

 

[Goldromans]

Platforms 3 and 4 are now cleared for 5+2 HSTs. Whether we get any more sets made up to 5 car is another question

How did they get round the platform length issue? Great to hear though. It will definitely be interesting to see how many more 5-car sets appear, as I believe ScotRail's excuse had been difficulty diagraming them because of capacity at Inverness? Doesn't really fly anymore if that's no longer a problem.

 

[John Bishop]

How did they get round the platform length issue? Great to hear though. It will definitely be interesting to see how many more 5-car sets appear, as I believe ScotRail's excuse had been difficulty diagraming them because of capacity at Inverness? Doesn't really fly anymore if that's no longer a problem.

Added Car stop marker boards closer to the buffer ends and installed new, lower LED signals at the end of P3 and 4. They always did fit on but it was the signal sighting which was the issue.

 

[BRX]

The other silliness at Inverness (if I remember it right) is that the whole of platform 1 or 2 is occupied for the bulk of the day by the sleeper stock, because there's not anywhere else with a functioning suitable shore supply. Perhaps the technical wizardry that has made it possible to install some signs and new signals on p3/4 can also be employed to solve this issue.

 

[Stathern Jc]

Added Car stop marker boards closer to the buffer ends and installed new, lower LED signals at the end of P3 and 4. They always did fit on but it was the signal sighting which was the issue.

Thanks for that info.
Sounds oh so simple when you say it there compared with the earlier suggestions that changes to the signal positions would be necessary.
There could have been misinterpretations that it was the siting that needed to be changed when it could have been the height all along, but the significant costs that were referred to seem to make a height adjustment less likely to have been the plan?

 

[InvHst]

The other silliness at Inverness (if I remember it right) is that the whole of platform 1 or 2 is occupied for the bulk of the day by the sleeper stock, because there's not anywhere else with a functioning suitable shore supply. Perhaps the technical wizardry that has made it possible to install some signs and new signals on p3/4 can also be employed to solve this issue.

Sleeper used to use 1 all day. But the shore supply been broken for absolute ages so the sleeper now uses 2 all day

 

[fgwrich]

Sleeper used to use 1 all day. But the shore supply been broken for absolute ages so the sleeper now uses 2 all day

I’m surprised it isn’t shunted out to the depot and plugged into the ERS EGV Mk3 that’s up there. I mean, that’s what it came up at Christmas for!

 

[JModulo]

I’m surprised it isn’t shunted out to the depot and plugged into the ERS EGV Mk3 that’s up there. I mean, that’s what it came up at Christmas for!

Thats actually for when its usually sat for a few days, ie over Christmas etc to prevent the stock freezing.

 

[BRX]

Is there something especially technically difficult about just installing a shore supply, where that generator coach is? Or somewhere else, that isn't a station platform?

It seems very bizarre to me that given the problem of a station with limited capacity to accommodate longer trains, the apparently easier solution is to re-engineer shorter platforms, rather than release an already plenty-long-enough platform from its role as a siding.

 

[Killingworth]

Is there something especially technically difficult about just installing a shore supply, where that generator coach is? Or somewhere else, that isn't a station platform?

It seems very bizarre to me that given the problem of a station with limited capacity to accommodate longer trains, the apparently easier solution is to re-engineer shorter platforms, rather than release an already plenty-long-enough platform from its role as a siding.

Given how much was invested in these trains it certainly seems odd that the apparently obvious inability to operate 5 car trains to Inverness wasn't realised and so easily resolved 4 years ago.

 

[John Bishop]

Given how much was invested in these trains it certainly seems odd that the apparently obvious inability to operate 5 car trains to Inverness wasn't realised and so easily resolved 4 years ago.

Welcome to the railway!

 

[hexagon789]

Given how much was invested in these trains it certainly seems odd that the apparently obvious inability to operate 5 car trains to Inverness wasn't realised and so easily resolved 4 years ago.

I thought that it was the whole reason for the mix of four and five-car sets originally - therefore, it would have been known about?