ScotRail Industrial Relations issues (including conductor strike action)

[Robertj21a]

Interestingly though, Southern hired a bunch of new starters fresh from the railway to become OBSs and moved other staff from other grades to fill the role as many guards left refusing to accept the new contracts.

It was a very disruptive 18 months but each strike became progressively less dramatic. With ASLEF on the side with the DOO dispute, it soon became ineffective and the battle was lost. Southern now is rather reliable and it hasn’t had a significant long-term impact on passenger usage (Covid notwithstanding).

There are differences here of course (dispatch operation not changing) but similarities are that only the RMT Conductor grade are in dispute (other unions accepting a deal), it’s related to Conductor working practices, the TOC is training up contingency staff, and a prolonged strike is on the cards.

So the RMT needs to make sure they don’t overplay their hand or in the medium-term even more drastic arrangements are a very real possibility. And ultimately, passengers bear the brunt.

Well worth reminding others that the Southern OBS role seems to have been well received by passengers, and few problems ever since.

 

[mpthomson]

Did you travel much during lockdown?
Were all the trains that ran on a drastically reduced timetable, empty?

I did, on LNER and TPE and most of them were, if not empty, only one or two people per carriage. A huge reduction compared to normal.

 

[the sniper]

I was blown away remembering my spotters days and a freight train. 1 driver, 1 co-driver and one guard in the guards van plus signalers on shift in all the signal boxes. I came to the USA on business well before I lived here and it blew my mind. I huge freight train with 4 locos in multiple with one driver and no guard.

Erm, to this day, isn't it still the norm on all Class 1 Railroads to have an Engineer and Conductor? The US has actually been less successful than here in introducing DOO on the freight side, as much as they'd like to get away with it...

Let's not even talk about the manning of Amtrak services, they've done well over there!

 

[ComUtoR]

I agree with that.

However, the government isn't prioritising railways. The solution to that is changing government policy and voting against the Conservatives. Nothing much else is going to change it.

I'd suggest the railway has already had its fair share of taxpayers money - money that was handed out during the pandemic to allow the railway to run empty trains.

Budget 2021: key points at a glance

Rishi Sunak has announced his budget – here are the main points, with political analysis

www.theguardian.com

The government will invest £21bn on roads and £46bn on railways to improve journey times between cities.

Key budget announcements: Alcohol, fuel and tax changes revealed in chancellor's statement

Here are the key points from Chancellor Rishi Sunak's budget speech:

news.sky.com

£46bn investment in railways, with an integrated rail plan to be published soon

English City Regions to get £6.9 billion for transport funding

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503 A few of the media outlets are running this story this morning. It's interesting to see that of the local media outlets here on Merseyside, none I saw had a comment from the LCR mayor, I wonder how much they knew about the announcement. Steve...

www.railforums.co.uk

Kerching !

Plenty of taxpayers money to be spent.

 

[PaulMc7]

Budget 2021: key points at a glance

Rishi Sunak has announced his budget – here are the main points, with political analysis

www.theguardian.com

Key budget announcements: Alcohol, fuel and tax changes revealed in chancellor's statement

Here are the key points from Chancellor Rishi Sunak's budget speech:

news.sky.com

English City Regions to get £6.9 billion for transport funding

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503 A few of the media outlets are running this story this morning. It's interesting to see that of the local media outlets here on Merseyside, none I saw had a comment from the LCR mayor, I wonder how much they knew about the announcement. Steve...

www.railforums.co.uk

Kerching !

Plenty of taxpayers money to be spent.

That's all good and well but the Scottish budget will be far less. The most recent one for Transport Scotland was £1.3 billion which is plenty compared to what buses got. Practically 4 times the amount in fact.

 

[CaptainBen]

How is this implemented ?

Fairly easily.
1. Let the strike go ahead, but dangle a few carrots for those willing to work.
2. A few employees decide the carrots are worth it, and cross the picket lines.
3. (As per comments earlier on) those employees are likely to get bullied by other employees.
4. Catch some of the bullies in the act.
5. Suspension pending a gross misconduct hearing.
6. Instant dismissal, without notice or redundancy pay.

Remember the threshold for what constitutes bullying in the workplace is really quite low. Shouting something vaguely abusive from a picket line is probably enough; using the word "scab" is going to get you a P45 in 2021.

 

[the sniper]

Fairly easily.
1. Let the strike go ahead, but dangle a few carrots for those willing to work.
2. A few employees decide the carrots are worth it, and cross the picket lines.
3. (As per comments earlier on) those employees are likely to get bullied by other employees.
4. Catch some of the bullies in the act.
5. Suspension pending a gross misconduct hearing.
6. Instant dismissal, without notice or redundancy pay.

Remember the threshold for what constitutes bullying in the workplace is really quite low. Shouting something vaguely abusive from a picket line is probably enough; using the word "scab" is going to get you a P45 in 2021.

And in a bizarre twist, the forum will now be disappointed by how little bullying there will actually be...

 

[PaulMc7]

And in a bizarre twist, the forum will now be disappointed by how little bullying there will actually be...

I doubt anyone will be disappointed with that to be honest. The less bullying in every industry the better.

 

[ComUtoR]

Fairly easily.
1. Let the strike go ahead, but dangle a few carrots for those willing to work.
2. A few employees decide the carrots are worth it, and cross the picket lines.
3. (As per comments earlier on) those employees are likely to get bullied by other employees.
4. Catch some of the bullies in the act.
5. Suspension pending a gross misconduct hearing.
6. Instant dismissal, without notice or redundancy pay.

Remember the threshold for what constitutes bullying in the workplace is really quite low. Shouting something vaguely abusive from a picket line is probably enough; using the word "scab" is going to get you a P45 in 2021.

Dealing with workplace bullying for sure but that isn't what the fire everyone and then hire new people is about.

 

[LoogaBarooga]

Fresh offer made, details not clear. Getting discussed tomorrow by exec committee. RMT asked for one year 2.5% backdated to April.

 

[PaulMc7]

BBC Scotland journalist Fiona Stalker has just posted the following on Twitter:

NEW : The @RMTunion says it’s received a fresh offer from @scotrail in a bid to avoid strike action due to take place over the COP 26 climate summit. The exact details are not known but the National Executive of the union - which represents mainly conductors and ticket examiners - will meet tomorrow to consider the offer. The RMT's General Secretary had written to Scotrail bosses earlier today asking for a one year 2.5% pay increase backdated to April 1st…plus a COP 26 payment for all Scotrail staff, and further pay and condition talks next April #Railstrike

 

[ainsworth74]

Fresh offer made, details not clear. Getting discussed tomorrow by exec committee. RMT asked for one year 2.5% backdated to April.

What happened to 4.9% and "guns" to their head?

 

[Mag_seven]

BBC Scotland journalist Fiona Stalker has just posted the following on Twitter:

NEW : The @RMTunion says it’s received a fresh offer from @scotrail in a bid to avoid strike action due to take place over the COP 26 climate summit. The exact details are not known but the National Executive of the union - which represents mainly conductors and ticket examiners - will meet tomorrow to consider the offer. The RMT's General Secretary had written to Scotrail bosses earlier today asking for a one year 2.5% pay increase backdated to April 1st…plus a COP 26 payment for all Scotrail staff, and further pay and condition talks next April #Railstrike

Given the urgency of this shouldn't the RMT meet tonight?

 

[PaulMc7]

Given the urgency of this shouldn't the RMT meet tonight?

You'd think they'd have the common sense to do that but as we've seen urgency isn't their strong point.

 

[ld0595]

STV news reporting that Scotrail and the RMT are now more optimistic of a deal. Suggesting that the working changes proposed are now off the table for the time being.

 

[Watershed]

The anti Trade Union and anti worker rants on this thread are disgraceful, most peculiar that people who presumably have an interest in the industry have such hatred for the employees within that industry!

There is a lot of common ground between people who like railways, and railway trade unions and employees. For example, both would support maintaining and increasing rail subsidies.

But that common ground quickly evaporates once you move to the thornier subject of how those subsidies are divided.

It should hardly come as a surprise that many people who like railways are against employees getting a disproportionate share of that subsidy. Because that ultimately means higher fares and taxes to support the same level of service - or, more likely, a reduced service given the same level of funding.

 

[6Z09]

What happened to 4.9% and "guns" to their head?

Was the 4.9% not a two year deal, actually 2.2% and 2.5% over two years with a ball of string attached !

 

[Starmill]

Budget 2021: key points at a glance

Rishi Sunak has announced his budget – here are the main points, with political analysis

www.theguardian.com

Key budget announcements: Alcohol, fuel and tax changes revealed in chancellor's statement

Here are the key points from Chancellor Rishi Sunak's budget speech:

news.sky.com

English City Regions to get £6.9 billion for transport funding

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59017503 A few of the media outlets are running this story this morning. It's interesting to see that of the local media outlets here on Merseyside, none I saw had a comment from the LCR mayor, I wonder how much they knew about the announcement. Steve...

www.railforums.co.uk

Kerching !

Plenty of taxpayers money to be spent.

That's a very, very small amount of money. A few pounds per member of ScotRail staff, non-consolidated.

 

[Fat Pav]

BBC Scotland journalist Fiona Stalker has just posted the following on Twitter:

STV news reporting that Scotrail and the RMT are now more optimistic of a deal. Suggesting that the working changes proposed are now off the table for the time being.

Interesting developments. I wonder what RMT will do? Hopefully a mutually acceptable decision to end this situation.

Will be a weight off of the mind when this is over.

Was the 4.9% not a two year deal, actually 2.2% and 2.5% over two years with a ball of string attached !

Yes. The conditions impacted the Conductor grades more than most and were deemed as not acceptable.

The feeling amongst the large majority of the staff is that the deal shouldn't have been accepted with the conditions attached.

 

[320320]

Given the urgency of this shouldn't the RMT meet tonight?

You'd think they'd have the common sense to do that but as we've seen urgency isn't their strong point.

Posts like these would have people thinking that the Scottish government weren’t even involved in this dispute.

 

[PaulMc7]

Posts like these would have people thinking that the Scottish government weren’t even involved in this dispute.

They are but the union couldn't even get them to the negotiation table for 6 months. A better union would have much earlier.

 

[kkong]

Was the 4.9% not a two year deal, actually 2.2% and 2.5% over two years with a ball of string attached !

Did you miss the bit where it was actually the RMT "demanding" a 4.9% one year deal with no productivity terms attached?

 

[the sniper]

Did you miss the bit where it was actually the RMT "demanding" a 4.9% one year deal with no productivity terms attached?

Maybe some people were paying too much attention.

 

[6Z09]

Did you miss the bit where it was actually the RMT "demanding" a 4.9% one year deal with no productivity terms attached?

It's what was on offer I am referring to.

 

[320320]

They are but the union couldn't even get them to the negotiation table for 6 months. A better union would have much earlier.

So the union are to blame for the Scottish governments refusal to make any serious attempt at sorting this mess out for 7 months. Passengers abandoned on a Sunday to save £40-£50 to cover the odd overtime shift only for them to start paying it again now.

Some people will go to extreme lengths absolve the government of any blame.

 

[PaulMc7]

So the union are to blame for the Scottish governments refusal to make any serious attempt at sorting this mess out for 7 months. Passengers abandoned on a Sunday to save £40-£50 to cover the odd overtime shift only for them to start paying it again now.

Some people will go to extreme lengths absolve the government of any blame.

Have I said the government have no blame? I haven't but as a union to get what you want you need to show urgency to get it and the union just didn't. On that front that's entirely on them. With this latest setup they could easily have went for that when this first started and it would have been much more realistic. I'd be raging with the union if I was in it because they could have done so much more for their members

 

[320320]

Have I said the government have no blame? I haven't but as a union to get what you want you need to show urgency to get it and the union just didn't. On that front that's entirely on them. With this latest setup they could easily have went for that when this first started and it would have been much more realistic. I'd be raging with the union if I was in it because they could have done so much more for their members

I must’ve missed you posting your displeasure at the Scottish government’s handling of this dispute

 

[PaulMc7]

I must’ve missed you posting your displeasure at the Scottish government’s handling of this dispute

I have mentioned it but with this forum being such a fast moving one it feels like a good while ago now. Criticised this government for a lot lately but as I say you deserve a much better union.

 

[320320]

I have mentioned it but with this forum being such a fast moving one it feels like a good while ago now. Criticised this government for a lot lately but as I say you deserve a much better union.

I wouldn’t be happy with them either if I was a member but the Scottish government have played a far bigger part in this dispute than they‘d admit.

 

[ainsworth74]

I wouldn’t be happy with them either if I was a member but the Scottish government have played a far bigger part in this dispute than they‘d admit.

They're enjoying the final days of traditional privatisation whereby governments get to blame operators whenever anything goes wrong and take the credit for anything that goes well. No matter how much of a role they've undoubtedly played in whatever farce is unfolding.

It was the main advantage of privatisation for governments of all colours!