Scotrail Train Driver Shift Patterns

[Ciel]

Hi.

Can anybody give me any idea of a train driver's shift patterns on Scotrail trains?

Just out of interest!

I'd like to be on the Glasgow to Ayr/Edinburgh route - could anyone tell me what they're like?

 

[class 9]

Each depot will have their own shift pattern, you needs to be more specific.

 

[reb0118]

Short 'n' sweet: crap.

 

[455driver]

Short 'n' sweet: crap.

Show me a depot that doesnt have crap shifts, whether its in Scotland, Wales or England!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Marylebone.

 

[455driver]

Marylebone.

Lucky baskets!

 

[theironroad]

Each depot defines its own crap turns.

What may be a crap turn to depot A could be a great turn to depot B.

Regards the op, I'd guess the some of the suburban Glasgow turns are pretty intense, whereas a return trip along the west highland line or Kyle line would be pretty good( in daylight anyway)....

 

[scotraildriver]

Indeed some are good some not so. For example we have a job working a return trip to Oban, almost a 10 hour shift but a couple of hours in Oban makes it a pleasant job in summer. In winter however it can be awful. We also have 10 hour jobs flying back and forward to Edinburgh, not so much fun and pretty intense. Good with the bad.......

 

[Ciel]

Indeed some are good some not so. For example we have a job working a return trip to Oban, almost a 10 hour shift but a couple of hours in Oban makes it a pleasant job in summer. In winter however it can be awful. We also have 10 hour jobs flying back and forward to Edinburgh, not so much fun and pretty intense. Good with the bad.......

Hi!

If you have 10 hour shifts, does that mean you work just 4 days a week?

I'd really like to be on the route of Glasgow to Ayr/Edinburgh. By any chance do you know what the shifts are like, and if possible any idea of when the next recruitment round might be?

 

[Greenback]

Days worked will normally average out to 4 days per week over a longer period. It may be 6 days one week and 3, 4 or 5 days in other weeks, as part of 13 weeks cycle with two weeks of Rest Days included somewhere, or there may be a week of Rest Days' every few weeks. The latter would mean that there are more days to be worked in the other two or three weeks. As has been said, all depots tend to do things a little differently.

 

[Ciel]

Days worked will normally average out to 4 days per week over a longer period. It may be 6 days one week and 3, 4 or 5 days in other weeks, as part of 13 weeks cycle with two weeks of Rest Days included somewhere, or there may be a week of Rest Days' every few weeks. The latter would mean that there are more days to be worked in the other two or three weeks. As has been said, all depots tend to do things a little differently.

I see.

Do you know if rotas and schedules are made some time in advance so drivers can plan their life and non-work events?

I'm a fire fighter and am working 2 days, then 2 nights, then 4 days off - I was hoping it would be somewhat the same. Clearly not.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, rotas are planned in advance, but they can change along with the timetable twice a year. Strenuous efforts will be made to minimise any changes, though, broadly speaking if the cycle is a week of earlies, then you will still have a week of earlies, the exact times and durations of the turns may be altered slightly, though.

There are strict rules about short notice changes. You can be asked to move from one turn to another, but you usually don't have to.

Please note, I don't know any of this from my own personal experience, just by knowing drivers and speaking to those in the grade. So I apologise in advance if I've got anything wrong!

 

[Ciel]

Yes, rotas are planned in advance, but they can change along with the timetable twice a year. Strenuous efforts will be made to minimise any changes, though, broadly speaking if the cycle is a week of earlies, then you will still have a week of earlies, the exact times and durations of the turns may be altered slightly, though.

There are strict rules about short notice changes. You can be asked to move from one turn to another, but you usually don't have to.

Please note, I don't know any of this from my own personal experience, just by knowing drivers and speaking to those in the grade. So I apologise in advance if I've got anything wrong!

No, no, that's fine! Thank you for the information.

I will be visiting my nearest depot some time soon, so I'll be asking them then.

 

[Greenback]

That's a good idea, get some information from those that are working there. You'll probably get a few different perspectives, but I imagine all will say there's good and bad, and you've got to take the rough with the smooth.

 

[Saltire]

I see.

Do you know if rotas and schedules are made some time in advance so drivers can plan their life and non-work events?

I'm a fire fighter and am working 2 days, then 2 nights, then 4 days off - I was hoping it would be somewhat the same. Clearly not.

Hi Ciel,
I think you'll find your shift pattern is 5 on then 3 days off, remember you've already worked at least 8 hours on your first rota day

A bit naive to plan what routes and shifts you would work, do you have any idea of the recruitment process, timescales and competition for positions? The railway is a very difficult industry to get into, the Driver grade I would imagine is the hardest - even harder than the Fire Service.

I'd suggest keeping an eye on this forum, loads of great information from loads of great knowledgeable folk, interspersed with a bit a bit of bull from others. You'll probably find any vacancy adverts will find themselves on here, but you can register with Abellio for alerts

 

[the sniper]

Days worked will normally average out to 4 days per week over a longer period. It may be 6 days one week and 3, 4 or 5 days in other weeks, as part of 13 weeks cycle with two weeks of Rest Days included somewhere, or there may be a week of Rest Days' every few weeks. The latter would mean that there are more days to be worked in the other two or three weeks. As has been said, all depots tend to do things a little differently.

Indeed. Places I know just have a 4 day week, with the two rest days moving back by two days each week over the course of three weeks. This is where Sundays are outside of the working week.

 

[Ciel]

Hi Ciel,
I think you'll find your shift pattern is 5 on then 3 days off, remember you've already worked at least 8 hours on your first rota day

A bit naive to plan what routes and shifts you would work, do you have any idea of the recruitment process, timescales and competition for positions? The railway is a very difficult industry to get into, the Driver grade I would imagine is the hardest - even harder than the Fire Service.

I'd suggest keeping an eye on this forum, loads of great information from loads of great knowledgeable folk, interspersed with a bit a bit of bull from others. You'll probably find any vacancy adverts will find themselves on here, but you can register with Abellio for alerts

Thanks for the information.

I have no way to plan my routes and shifts at the moment. I was just asking what shift patterns are like, since I have yet to speak to a train driver about this, and was hoping to do so on this site.

I don't really know where you're getting this comparison between difficulty to attain employment from. I've researched the recruitment process, and if the correct aptitude and preparation for the tests and interviews and group exercises are attained, then I really don't see there being an issue.

If you're basing your comparison on the ratio of applications against vacancies, then last year, there were 10 vacancies advertised in the London Fire Brigade, and there were just shy of 20,000 applications. That is 2000 applications per vacancy.

The selection process is also nothing to scoff at, though I think it's about on the same level of difficulty as the tests and rounds in the train driver application process.

My point is, you can't really say which is more difficult to get into, unless you've done both, and even then there's the matter of subjectivity.

 

[Saltire]

I wasn't meaning to scoff at either you or the recruitment process, so sorry if that's how I came across.

I'm surprised that LFB have recruited any Firefighters recently as Boris closed 10 stations last year....

Just so you know I have been through both the Fire Service and trainee train driver recruitment process, I've been a Firefighter just over 20 years and in 2014 I attempted to become a TTD, I successfully completed this process right through sift, company specific assessment, stage 1 & 2 psychometric tests (including MMI) then DM interview - told by the company that I had been successful at every stage however they didn't have or anticipate any vacancies in Scotland. I stated on the application and again at interview that due to family commitments I would be unable to relocate on a permanent basis, so that was the end of the line for me! (nationally they cut down their requirements too)

I think the point I'm making is that even if you are the bees knees and tick all the boxes other factors will have an influence on if or when you are successful.

As for which process offers more chance of success I'd say the jury's out, the fire service will certainly have equipped you with many skills that will help you in TTD recruitment but it certainly isn't a given.

Good luck for when you get the opportunity to apply

 

[380gk]

Depends what depot you're based at.
Glasgow - Ayr drivers have lots of different route knowledge and are based at lots of depots (Central, CK, shields and Ayr itself). On average you do a 35 hour week and will drive a mix of 380s, 314s (not Ayr) and 156s. The turns involve a mix of driver only and traditional conductor and driver working.
Glasgow - Edinburgh via carstairs and shorts are covered by Central, Edinburgh and Motherwell drivers. Ayr - Edinburgh via Glasgow trains all have change of drivers at Glasgow Central, no driver does the one train.

 

[Ciel]

I wasn't meaning to scoff at either you or the recruitment process, so sorry if that's how I came across.

I'm surprised that LFB have recruited any Firefighters recently as Boris closed 10 stations last year....

Just so you know I have been through both the Fire Service and trainee train driver recruitment process, I've been a Firefighter just over 20 years and in 2014 I attempted to become a TTD, I successfully completed this process right through sift, company specific assessment, stage 1 & 2 psychometric tests (including MMI) then DM interview - told by the company that I had been successful at every stage however they didn't have or anticipate any vacancies in Scotland. I stated on the application and again at interview that due to family commitments I would be unable to relocate on a permanent basis, so that was the end of the line for me! (nationally they cut down their requirements too)

I think the point I'm making is that even if you are the bees knees and tick all the boxes other factors will have an influence on if or when you are successful.

As for which process offers more chance of success I'd say the jury's out, the fire service will certainly have equipped you with many skills that will help you in TTD recruitment but it certainly isn't a given.

Good luck for when you get the opportunity to apply

Regardless of how many stations are cut, they'll always need a new influx of fire fighters due to retirement and leave of the old ones.

It's okay. I was a bit defensive about my fire service...sorry about that.

Out of curiosity, why did you want to leave your role as a fire fighter to become a train driver? I'm thinking of doing the same, but with a FF being the job it is, I'm not sure if I'm making the wrong choice...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Depends what depot you're based at.
Glasgow - Ayr drivers have lots of different route knowledge and are based at lots of depots (Central, CK, shields and Ayr itself). On average you do a 35 hour week and will drive a mix of 380s, 314s (not Ayr) and 156s. The turns involve a mix of driver only and traditional conductor and driver working.
Glasgow - Edinburgh via carstairs and shorts are covered by Central, Edinburgh and Motherwell drivers. Ayr - Edinburgh via Glasgow trains all have change of drivers at Glasgow Central, no driver does the one train.

Ooo. That's interesting. I thought it'd be one train and that's it.

By any chance do you know which TOCs I should be looking at for the route? Scotrail alone, or others too?

 

[Saltire]

"Out of curiosity, why did you want to leave your role as a fire fighter to become a train driver? I'm thinking of doing the same, but with a FF being the job it is, I'm not sure if I'm making the wrong choice..."

I suppose the reasons for wanting to leave the fire service are probably similar to yours - the main one being I feel cheated with the pension, I've paid into the "old" scheme for over twenty years and had planned my financial future around retiring after 30 years service, in now find myself in the Tory governments austerity scheme with no protection, that means working an extra 9 years to get less at the end - simply not fair!
Another factor for me is that due to reductions in cover I've been forcibly transferred to a station further away from home, but thankfully it's a great watch and I've fitted in pretty well.
I actually still love the job but it's the politics and bull**** that go along with it that get me down.

 

[scotraildriver]

Days worked will normally average out to 4 days per week over a longer period. It may be 6 days one week and 3, 4 or 5 days in other weeks, as part of 13 weeks cycle with two weeks of Rest Days included somewhere, or there may be a week of Rest Days' every few weeks. The latter would mean that there are more days to be worked in the other two or three weeks. As has been said, all depots tend to do things a little differently.

This is wrong. With the exception of some rural depots the majority of Scotrail work a strict 4 day week. Days off are Mon/tue first week then wed/thu. Second week then Fri/sat third week. Back to Mon/tue then gives a long weekend every 3rd week. In addition there are roughly 2 rostered Sundays per month. So average job length is around 9.5 hours over 4 days.

 

[Greenback]

This is wrong. With the exception of some rural depots the majority of Scotrail work a strict 4 day week. Days off are Mon/tue first week then wed/thu. Second week then Fri/sat third week. Back to Mon/tue then gives a long weekend every 3rd week. In addition there are roughly 2 rostered Sundays per month. So average job length is around 9.5 hours over 4 days.

I'm happy to be corrected. I was basing my reply on ATW diagrams and rosters, which I've seen. I've never seen the Scotrail equivalents

 

[theironroad]

@greenback. While I can see you're trying to help, sometimes wrong info is worse than no info. The 'railway' is a very big beast and just like different depots in scotrail do different things, that generally happens in all toc depots. The toc I work for' has about 12 depots and most of those will have their own different rosters and way of doing things, all things agreed locally. As long as the depot way of doing things meets the contract requirements, ie 35 hr week, it may be a actual 4 day or average 4 day over a longer cycle. As scotrail driver says, rural depots in scotrail have their own tweaks as well.

There is no 1 blanket answer, hence why qualifieds are often asking for info online.

 

[craigybagel]

I'm happy to be corrected. I was basing my reply on ATW diagrams and rosters, which I've seen. I've never seen the Scotrail equivalents

Fwiw, that info is pretty out of days now for ATW as well. Almost all of the depots there are on the standard 4 day week pattern posted by scotrail driver - the big exception being the mainline side of Cardiff depot who are still holding on to their 5 day week and week of rest days.

Personally, I believe this is the kind of thing you should ask at interview so you can get the answer from the horses mouth. You might find the right answer online, but if it's a driver manager at an interview then they'll definitely know the right answer.

 

[Greenback]

I must confess that I didn't realise my information as so out of date. Thinking back, I suppose it must be a few years old now. Sorry.