Scotrail Turbostars moving to Southern

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by hapt1n, 19 Oct 2014.

  1. hapt1n

    hapt1n Member

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    I've heard via a reliable source a number of Scotrail Turbostars are being moved to Southern

    Anybody know when and how many?
     
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  3. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    ask your source ;)

    Southern were after 14 coaches (7 units) and they hoped to get them by the end of 2015 but the last we heard was that was changed to "within the franchise period" and basically no one knew were they were gonna come from....

    AFAIK Platform extension surveys on the uckfield line have already started and construction was due to start summer 2015 according to the updated CP5.
     
  4. route:oxford

    route:oxford Established Member

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    If Southern are after 7 units (14 cars) and Scotrail Turbostars are all 3 car units...

    Is it likely that the 7 centre cars would remain with Scotrail and be used to strengthen retained turbostars to 4 car units?
     
  5. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    Instead of pratting about getting more diesel units just electrify the bloody route!
     
  6. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    well actually we were after 14 coaches.... i assumed the scotrail ones were 2 car but obviously im wrong...(to make 10 car services).
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Apparantly there is a Network Rail consultancy on electrifying the North Downs, Uckfield and Ashford line next year.

    Agree they should just do it. Its gonna be done eventually anyway, surely!
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2014
  7. ScotGG

    ScotGG Member

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    Exactly! Diesel units are required in so many places and none are being built, and Uckfield is a relatively easy third rail bit of in fill isn't it?
     
  8. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

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    I cant think of anywhere easier!
     
  9. XCTurbostar

    XCTurbostar Member

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    I'd be very surprised if this happens. Southern are not really at the bottom of the scale when it comes to being given modern rolling stock..

    I would have liked the Two Coach 170s from CrossCountry to be sent to Southern instead giving CrossCountry a fleet of entirely 3 Coach 170s.
    One can imagine a day..

    Thanks,
    Ross
     
  10. Altnabreac

    Altnabreac Established Member

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    Scotrail will have spare diesel units but not in the short term.

    The DMUs freed by this summer's electrification will be used for strengthening and to cover Borders rail when it opens next year.

    So you're looking at the first phase of Edinburgh - Glasgow electrification (Dec 2017), Introduction of HSTs on Scotrail Intercity routes (Dec 2018) or electrification to Dunblane/Alloa (Dec 2018).

    Basically there will be lots of spare Scotrail DMUs but not for 3-4 years.
     
  11. thealexweb

    thealexweb Member

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    If the lease is up the lease is up. Transpennine is losing its Turbostars against its will and its was already struggling desperately for rolling stock. In comparison, right now Scotrail has perhaps five DMUs that are surplus to capacity.
     
  12. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    Give 'em to LM, get rid of the 150s used on the Brum-Hereford and Bedford-Bletchley routes. And chuck some 153s away while they're at it. It's all good!
     
  13. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    23 miles of line i think. Expensive!!!!
     
  14. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    It's supposed to be a full rewrite of the 2009 'Electrification RUS' that is known to be due in 2015, with a revised set of priorities since the last one, given the amount of wiring already planned for in CP5 and into CP6. I think the routes you mention will only be a small part of the document.
     
  15. ScotGG

    ScotGG Member

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    Is it a bit cheaper as it's third rail?
     
  16. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    http://www.courier.co.uk/end-line-c...tory-23260449-detail/story.html#ixzz3Ga79lXLE

    very poorly written piece!
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    im not sure third rail is cheaper to install? Its cheaper to maintain though.

    Overhead AC has been mentioned ...probably just silly rumours though,

    although according to a network rail guy who travelled in my cab a few weeks ago, if third rail was installed, miles and miles of new fencing would have to be put up to conform to regulations!
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2014
  17. Chrisgr31

    Chrisgr31 Established Member

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    They could of course decide to electrify the Uckfield Line with overhead instead. Mind you it is quite handy having it diesel, its very easy to find the train at London Bridge and East Croydon!

    Network Rail advised me in a tweet recently that the platforms will be extended by Nov 2016 which implies that the new stock may arrive in December 2016. However I am not sure that the stock which had been found for that time period is available now.

    Whilst the Uckfield Line is a relative backwater I understand it is actually profitable and it would also reduce overcrowding on the BBL and Hastings line as well. Class 170s would of course be ideal as the current fleet is Class 171 so all that is required is a coupler change.
     
  18. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Veteran Member

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    Not really, OLE is very cheap to maintain as long as it is put up correctly.

    But with third rail, track and signalling maintenance gets a whole lot more expensive.
     
  19. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    It seems the scotrail 170s mentioned are off lease as of july 2015? Maybe wrong though.

    Yeh its profitable and usage has increased massively since the DEMUs were replaced.

    I know a few people from tunbridge wells and lewes areas use the uckfield line in the peak cos its cheaper.
     
    Last edited: 19 Oct 2014
  20. Chris125

    Chris125 Established Member

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    Last edited: 19 Oct 2014
  21. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    seems to be the only thing about it on the whole net so yeh may not be trustworthy.
     
  22. clc

    clc Member

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    All leases for trains operating ScotRail services in Scotland will terminate at the end of the current franchise with the exception of the class 380s which are covered by a Section 54 agreement.
     
  23. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    Ah ok, april 2015 then. Ta.
     
  24. Chrisgr31

    Chrisgr31 Established Member

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    They have been replacing a lot of the fencing on the Uckfield line recently, certainly just been doing between Crowboroughand Eridge and I am sure I have seen them elsewhere as well.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    However there are also still a lot of people from the Uckfield line catchment area that go via the BML or Hastings Lines because whilst its more expensive its a quicker service (not sure door to door necessarially is) but also there is a greater frequency of service.

    At a Meet the Manager session 2 years ago Southern did say what percentage of Uckfield Line catchment area passengers currently use the other options and it was a lot.

    I think it was Bald Rick who said that it is anticipated that when the trains are lengthened the overcrowding will soon be back.
     
  25. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    New security fencing is required with OHLE too.
    Installed last year across Chat Moss through open fields.
     
  26. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    20 miles of the stuff must be expensive!
     
  27. ScotGG

    ScotGG Member

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    We do go overboard in the UK which must push up costs on schemes to an extent some aren't done. I've used railways all over the world and none are obsessed with expensive (and ugly) fencing to the extent the UK is. I concede there is very often a need for fences but the UK goes overboard on the type used.
     
  28. starrymarkb

    starrymarkb Established Member

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    It's because UK law (dating back to the first railways) requires the track to be fenced, in other countries the law is the other way and if you have say animals that shouldn't be on the line it's your responsibility to fence them in. In the UK it's the railway's responsibility to fence them out.

    Oh and DB are currently obsessed with acoustic walls. Noise Pollution is a political issue in Germany so railways and Autobahns are getting HS1 style high acoustic walls.
     
    Last edited: 20 Oct 2014
  29. thelem

    thelem Member

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    I don't see why the trains being 3-coach would need to be a problem, if anything it gives a little extra flexibility, and by the time you get to 6-coaches it makes no difference anyway.

    --

    I imagine 20 miles of security fencing, which is installed away from the running lines, costs peanuts compared to 20 miles of OHLE or 3rd rail.
     
  30. SpacePhoenix

    SpacePhoenix Established Member

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    Would fencing be required anyway on any line (overhead, 3rd rail or diesel) if the average line speed is above a certain speed?
     
  31. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    A lot of security fencing has been installed in the last few years to reduce trespass. However there has always been a requirement to have a better standard of fencing on third rail lines - this was the a reason why third rail EMUs weren't fitted with enhanced obstacle deflectors after Polmont.
     

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