Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

[Mingulay]

As of today flyers being handed out to advise larbert Dunblane line closer for a week 14 22 October. Be a pain but fair enough.
The flyer in its list of benefits of electrification now sayingreduced journey time on “some” services. Is that a dilution of the original claims and headlines of this project. ? I remain sceptical that any peak service will be quicker if congestion continues.

New trains all welcome. More seats welcome. Faster trains. False promise and expectation?

 

[59CosG95]

As of today flyers being handed out to advise larbert Dunblane line closer for a week 14 22 October. Be a pain but fair enough.
The flyer in its list of benefits of electrification now sayingreduced journey time on “some” services. Is that a dilution of the original claims and headlines of this project. ? I remain sceptical that any peak service will be quicker if congestion continues.

New trains all welcome. More seats welcome. Faster trains. False promise and expectation?

Not necessarily a false promise; electric trains will be quicker off the mark than their diesel predecessors, so the Dunblane-Stirling-Edinburgh/Glasgow services will benefit most from them. The Alloa services I'm less sure about, as the linespeed is fairly low IIRC.

 

[Mingulay]

Not necessarily a false promise; electric trains will be quicker off the mark than their diesel predecessors, so the Dunblane-Stirling-Edinburgh/Glasgow services will benefit most from them. The Alloa services I'm less sure about, as the linespeed is fairly low IIRC.

I get that. But my point is they are now saying shorter journeys on some services. That was not the original claimed benefit. It was shorter journey times. So some offpeak services are quicker. Fine. But for most of us the important journeys are peak. So my concern is this is a rolling back of one of the benefits of the disruption and cost.

 

[deltic08]

I get that. But my point is they are now saying shorter journeys on some services. That was not the original claimed benefit. It was shorter journey times. So some offpeak services are quicker. Fine. But for most of us the important journeys are peak. So my concern is this is a rolling back of one of the benefits of the disruption and cost.

Trains will have been timed for 75 mph for class 156, not 158s or 170. Electrics are bound to accelerate faster to a higher speed where they can mostly on the E&G so times must be quicker, even from Alloa.

 

[Stopper]

Edinburgh-Dunblane service aren’t time for 156 (75 mph), they’re timed for 158 (90 mph) I’m sure.

 

[Mingulay]

Edinburgh-Dunblane service aren’t time for 156 (75 mph), they’re timed for 158 (90 mph) I’m sure.

Irrespective of what they are currently timed for , my point is they are now apparently back tracking on shorter journey times .

 

[fegguk]

As some of the services that go beyond Dunblane will still be diesel powered they can't say all services will be quicker and have to say some.

 

[Stopper]

Irrespective of what they are currently timed for , my point is they are now apparently back tracking on shorter journey times .

Where have you heard this? It wouldn’t shock me as the whole E-G, SDA, Cumbernauld post-385 timetabling has been a disaster so far from what I have heard.

 

[68000]

Irrespective of what they are currently timed for , my point is they are now apparently back tracking on shorter journey times .

Can you put a copy of the flyer up as a photo?

 

[mcmad]

Less than a months notice of a week long blockade is a joke. What happened to informed traveller.....

 

[gord]

Less than a months notice of a week long blockade is a joke. What happened to informed traveller.....

It's made a bit of a mess of a journey I had carefully planned for that week with advance tickets I bought back in July. Maybe during the works, something unforeseen has happened which has required this short notice closure? I hope that's what it is because it's pretty poor otherwise.

 

[385001]

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....on-means-changes-for-central-belt-travellers#

Thursday 20 Sep 2018

Stirling-Dunblane-Alloa electrification means changes for Central Belt travellers
Work to electrify the Stirling, Dunblane and Alloa lines ahead of the introduction of new electric trains will see the railway between Larbert and Dunblane close from Sunday October 14 to Monday October 22.

Engineering activity is being intensified ahead of the introduction of electric trains on the routes this December.

The project team will be working day and night to complete overhead line electrification (OLE) work including the installation of contact and catenary wires, associated electrical bonding works and cable ducting work on platforms at stations along the route.

During these works alternative service arrangements will be in place with buses replacing trains for some journeys. The lines will reopen for the start of morning services on Monday, October 22.

Once the new fleet of longer, faster and greener electric trains is introduced significant customer benefits will be realised including faster journeys, more seats, and better services to Glasgow and Edinburgh.

The work is being delivered by Network Rail as part of the Scottish Government's rolling programme of electrification.

Paul Reilly, Network Rail programme manager, said: “This hugely challenging and complex project, which covers 50km of Scotland’s rail network, is another step towards building the best railway Scotland has ever had.

“With new electric trains being introduced in December, the project is reaching a crucial stage and our engineers will be working around-the-clock to finish these works on 22 October when the line will re-open for morning services.

“We are sorry for the inconvenience these works will cause to some passengers and residents and we are working hard to keep disruption to a minimum.”

Customers should leave extra time for travel, and plan journeys in advance. Further information is available at www.scotrail.co.uk/electrification as well as on the ScotRail app.

Routes affected by changes are:

Glasgow Queen St – Aberdeen services

Train services operate between Perth and Aberdeen, Buses replace trains between Falkirk Grahamston and Perth for intermediate stations in both directions.

Express buses operates between Glasgow Queen St and Perth with an hourly service also calling Stirling only.

Glasgow Queen St – Inverness services

Train services operate between Perth and Inverness. Buses replace trains between Falkirk Grahamston and Perth for intermediate stations in both directions.

Express bus also operates between Glasgow Queen St and Perth with an hourly service also calling Stirling only

Edinburgh – Dunblane / Perth services

Train services from Edinburgh operate between Edinburgh and Larbert.

Buses replace trains between Falkirk Grahamston and Dunblane / Perth, calling at all intermediate stations (note Falkirk Grahamston, Camelon and Larbert are served by both train and bus). Passenger travelling to stations north of Larbert, should change at Larbert

Train services to Edinburgh start from Falkirk Grahamston.

Buses replace trains between Perth / Dunblane and Falkirk Grahamston, calling at all intermediate stations.

Glasgow Queen St – Stirling/ Alloa / Dunblane services

Train services from Queen St operate between Glasgow Queen St and Falkirk Grahamston.

Buses replace trains between Falkirk Grahamston and Stirling / Alloa / Dunblane, calling all intermediate stations (except Camelon).

Train services to Queen St operate between Larbert (platform 2) and Queen Street. Passengers at stations north of Larbert going to Glasgow Queen St should change at Larbert onto a train service.

Buses replace trains between Dunblane / Alloa / Stirling and Falkirk Grahamston.

 

[InOban]

I think the boss has committed NR to completion in time for the December timetable...

 

[Mingulay]

I think the boss has committed NR to completion in time for the December timetable...

If it gets the job done I can live with the pain. Bit like Brexit. Seems to be endless these works , so get on with it get it finished and let’s see the benefits of the investment you promised us passengers. No more delays!

It’s the October school week I think so perhaps a sensible week to pick.

I have spare holidays so makes the decision for me to take them that week . Hope for good weather.

 

[gord]

If it gets the job done I can live with the pain. Bit like Brexit. Seems to be endless these works , so get on with it get it finished and let’s see the benefits of the investment you promised us passengers. No more delays!

It’s the October school week I think so perhaps a sensible week to pick.

I have spare holidays so makes the decision for me to take them that week . Hope for good weather.

Absolutely have no problem with that. Any improvement to the railway is a good thing. The problem is them announcing it after advance ticketing had opened. Something has gone wrong there. But there you go, it is what it is now and like you say, the long term benefits will be helpful.

 

[Mingulay]

Absolutely have no problem with that. Any improvement to the railway is a good thing. The problem is them announcing it after advance ticketing had opened. Something has gone wrong there. But there you go, it is what it is now and like you say, the long term benefits will be helpful.

Yes. It’s not good and you should be refunded and also compensated with a goodwill payment from network rail for your trouble. Since i note from the news the rail industry seems now to accept they get things wrong and are putting the passenger first now , so you will be in for a tidy sum I should think for their systemic failures.

 

[Stopper]

I don’t think anyone is doubting the reason is for the best...but that’s the second time recently the SDA area has had last minute closure announcements, just like the Sundays in Sept/Oct. It’s really quite annoying.

 

[mcmad]

I agree, given the disruption that was suffered for EGIP then SDA itself it feels like a long time ago you could turn up and get a train at the weekend or in the evening without having to check umpteen different emergency timetables to see what they were doing that night. the constant late notice of disruption is just the icing on the cake.

Edit. Also note that this is just an announcement of the closure, there is no detail of changes to services and/or bus replacement timetables.

 

[clc]

The Transport Minister’s comments to parliament sound promising for East Kilbride and Barrhead:

• Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP):
  To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with Transport Scotland, Network Rail and ScotRail regarding the East Kilbride to Glasgow rail line. (S5O-02363)
  
  
• The Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity (Michael Matheson):
  The Scottish Government has prioritised the East Kilbride and Barrhead routes for enhancement as part of the control period 6 project funding. The first part of the improvement is to run longer trains with more seats for passengers along both routes. The work necessary to deliver that is being pursued urgently, and we expect to make a positive announcement soon.
  
  Transport Scotland, Network Rail and ScotRail are working together closely to develop plans that will deliver better resilience, more capacity, reduced emissions and major passenger benefits during the coming years. Detailed work has already commenced to assess the most economic means of delivering those outcomes.
  
  Linda Fabiani:
  In his meetings with the ScotRail Alliance and Transport Scotland, will the cabinet secretary stress the inadequacy of the single-track line and the importance of upgrading this commuter line to help the Government with its aspirations regarding low emissions and carbon reduction? As a commuter corridor for Glasgow, the East Kilbride line is crucial.
  
  
• Michael Matheson:
  I recognise the concerns that the member has raised and note that she has raised them recently on behalf of her constituents.
  
  Part of the purpose for which we are carrying out the work that is being done at the moment is to look at how we can improve resilience and capacity on the existing network, particularly on the East Kilbride and Barrhead lines, with the objective of providing more seats and greater reliability. As part of CP6, we are looking at the infrastructure arrangements that are in place and where strategic investments can be made to support greater use of our railways and greater resilience and reliability within them, and, alongside that, to provide people with a positive alternative to driving into town centres in places such as East Kilbride and Glasgow.
  
  The points that the member has raised are not lost on me and they are being considered as part of the work that is being done at the moment.
  
  http://www.parliament.scot/parliame...x?r=11673&i=105736&c=2111777&s=Infrastructure
  
  

 

[route:oxford]

As of today flyers being handed out to advise larbert Dunblane line closer for a week 14 22 October. Be a pain but fair enough.
The flyer in its list of benefits of electrification now sayingreduced journey time on “some” services. Is that a dilution of the original claims and headlines of this project. ? I remain sceptical that any peak service will be quicker if congestion continues.

New trains all welcome. More seats welcome. Faster trains. False promise and expectation?

I'm sceptical that a electric unit will be slower than a 170 out of BofA towards Dunblane...

Where will the peak services come from though? In the morning the peak services mostly start at Perth - so I'm guessing that they will be HSTs in early course.

 

[Southsider]

The Transport Minister’s comments to parliament sound promising for East Kilbride and Barrhead:

• Linda Fabiani (East Kilbride) (SNP):
  To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with Transport Scotland, Network Rail and ScotRail regarding the East Kilbride to Glasgow rail line. (S5O-02363)
  
  
• The Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity (Michael Matheson):
  The Scottish Government has prioritised the East Kilbride and Barrhead routes for enhancement as part of the control period 6 project funding. The first part of the improvement is to run longer trains with more seats for passengers along both routes. The work necessary to deliver that is being pursued urgently, and we expect to make a positive announcement soon.
  
  Transport Scotland, Network Rail and ScotRail are working together closely to develop plans that will deliver better resilience, more capacity, reduced emissions and major passenger benefits during the coming years. Detailed work has already commenced to assess the most economic means of delivering those outcomes.
  
  Linda Fabiani:
  In his meetings with the ScotRail Alliance and Transport Scotland, will the cabinet secretary stress the inadequacy of the single-track line and the importance of upgrading this commuter line to help the Government with its aspirations regarding low emissions and carbon reduction? As a commuter corridor for Glasgow, the East Kilbride line is crucial.
  
  
• Michael Matheson:
  I recognise the concerns that the member has raised and note that she has raised them recently on behalf of her constituents.
  
  Part of the purpose for which we are carrying out the work that is being done at the moment is to look at how we can improve resilience and capacity on the existing network, particularly on the East Kilbride and Barrhead lines, with the objective of providing more seats and greater reliability. As part of CP6, we are looking at the infrastructure arrangements that are in place and where strategic investments can be made to support greater use of our railways and greater resilience and reliability within them, and, alongside that, to provide people with a positive alternative to driving into town centres in places such as East Kilbride and Glasgow.
  
  The points that the member has raised are not lost on me and they are being considered as part of the work that is being done at the moment.
  
  http://www.parliament.scot/parliame...x?r=11673&i=105736&c=2111777&s=Infrastructure
  

Interesting and would appear to imply that plans are more advanced than has been understood on here; to make that statement in parliament suggests there must be something to support it. Whilst it doesn't specifically mention electrification it does seem likely in relation to emission reductions etc. Could longer trains mean 170s in the interim if enough are released from other routes? Their layout is better suited to commuter lines such as these than the end door 156s.

 

[InOban]

One can assume that since the question came not just from an SNP member, but one who has in the past been a Minister, that is was 'planted', ie she was asked to ask the question.

 

[Sirius]

One can assume that since the question came not just from an SNP member, but one who has in the past been a Minister, that is was 'planted', ie she was asked to ask the question.

The cynicism!

My favourites are “does the Minister agree with me that... (our policy good, opposition policy bad)”.

 

[Southsider]

One can assume that since the question came not just from an SNP member, but one who has in the past been a Minister, that is was 'planted', ie she was asked to ask the question.

Planted or not, does that affect the substance of the reply?

 

[InOban]

Not at all. I was merely pointing out how parliaments work, both in Edinburgh and London.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The fact that a certain amount of long term planning goes on quietly without much fanfare does not surprise me. Surveys etc. on which route would be best and which would be easiest to electrify etc. still it is pleasing to get some actual acknowledgement that this is indeed the case.

 

[Class 170101]

I agree, given the disruption that was suffered for EGIP then SDA itself it feels like a long time ago you could turn up and get a train at the weekend or in the evening without having to check umpteen different emergency timetables to see what they were doing that night. the constant late notice of disruption is just the icing on the cake.

Edit. Also note that this is just an announcement of the closure, there is no detail of changes to services and/or bus replacement timetables.

Have a look at Realtime Trains it seems to be there. Aberdeen and Inverness get services to Queen Street at the weekends it looks like using previous service plans running via Falkirk High, Kirkcaldy and Ladybank. During the week its a bus from Perth to Glasgow presumably due to train crew capacity constraints.

More interestingly during the week it looks like the Glasgow to Alloa service is diverted to Falkirk Grahamston where it then forms a separate but continuing service to Edinburgh. However in the opposite direction it seems to be an Edinburgh to Larbet service which then goes to Glasgow. Not sure why the eastbound service to Grahamston hasn't been replicated westbound.

 

[gord]

Have a look at Realtime Trains it seems to be there. Aberdeen and Inverness get services to Queen Street at the weekends it looks like using previous service plans running via Falkirk High, Kirkcaldy and Ladybank. During the week its a bus from Perth to Glasgow presumably due to train crew capacity constraints.

More interestingly during the week it looks like the Glasgow to Alloa service is diverted to Falkirk Grahamston where it then forms a separate but continuing service to Edinburgh. However in the opposite direction it seems to be an Edinburgh to Larbet service which then goes to Glasgow. Not sure why the eastbound service to Grahamston hasn't been replicated westbound.

Still nothing on the timetables about the Caledonian Sleeper and the Highland Chieftain. Both still showing as routed through Stirling that week, and stopping at the stations through the closed section. Although I see on Real Train times that their pathing is shown on the diversion route on the weekends each side of the week. Not sure what the delay is in sorting a new path for them. LNER seemed confident that they will be running to Inverness during the closure when I tweeted them. They should benefit from further electrification when their new bi-mode trains come in anyway. Caledonian Sleeper will just carry on with the same loco change at Edinburgh I should imagine though after the work is finished.

 

[benbristow]

Interesting and would appear to imply that plans are more advanced than has been understood on here; to make that statement in parliament suggests there must be something to support it. Whilst it doesn't specifically mention electrification it does seem likely in relation to emission reductions etc. Could longer trains mean 170s in the interim if enough are released from other routes? Their layout is better suited to commuter lines such as these than the end door 156s.

I'd love to see 170's on the East Kilbride route. Much nicer trains - I'm not really fan of the noisy and inconsistent (every carriage seems to be from a different era) 156s. I tweeted Scotrail but they're sticking with the 156's for now.

 

[gsnedders]

I'd love to see 170's on the East Kilbride route. Much nicer trains - I'm not really fan of the noisy and inconsistent (every carriage seems to be from a different era) 156s. I tweeted Scotrail but they're sticking with the 156's for now.

Also the 2/3rds doors would actually be a good fit for the line!