Season of Lent & religion

[STEVIEBOY1]

Hope this is not too controversial. As the Season of Lent is coming, I wonder if anyone on this forum does anything during this period. Fasting, giving something up etc. I know many people will give up sugar, sweets, chocolates etc, waking an hour or two earlier than normal etc. I am considering my options.

 

[najaB]

Used to as a child, but now I'm not Christian 'enough' to be bothered.

 

[DarloRich]

No. Mainly because it is pointless religious guff. Can you not give stuff up at other times of the year or is it only possible during silly religious festival times?

 

[najaB]

No. Mainly because it is pointless religious guff.

You know, it is possible to be gnostic without being disrespectful of others' beliefs.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Hope this is not too controversial. As the Season of Lent is coming, I wonder if anyone on this forum does anything during this period. Fasting, giving something up etc. I know many people will give up sugar, sweets, chocolates etc, waking an hour or two earlier than normal etc. I am considering my options.

Surely, you should know by now that this is the Internet. Everything is controversial

No. Mainly because it is pointless religious guff. Can you not give stuff up at other times of the year or is it only possible during silly religious festival times?

Would you also argue that things like BBC Children in Need Day, and Red Nose Day are pointless because you can just as easily give to charity on any day of the year?

I would have thought the rationale for of all these events - including Lent - is that very often, it's easier to modify your behaviour in order to do some good if you feel part of some specific event in which lots of people around you are doing the same thing, and there is lots of public encouragement to everyone to do likewise.

And 'pointless' is a bit of a matter of perspective. It might not be meaningful to you, but it is certainly going to be deeply meaningful to many people who do go to Church.

(To answer the original question by the way, I personally don't do anything for Lent, but I'd certainly respect all those who do).

 

[AlterEgo]

I don’t give up anything for Lent. In fact I’m not actually aware of when it starts.

 

[Bromley boy]

Nothing at all, I'm afraid. Dry January was difficult enough.

 

[DarloRich]

Would you also argue that things like BBC Children in Need Day, and Red Nose Day are pointless because you can just as easily give to charity on any day of the year?

As I do payroll giving to charities I support I do give money to charity every day of the year thanks

I would have thought the rationale for of all these events - including Lent - is that very often, it's easier to modify your behaviour in order to do some good if you feel part of some specific event in which lots of people around you are doing the same thing, and there is lots of public encouragement to everyone to do likewise.

And 'pointless' is a bit of a matter of perspective. It might not be meaningful to you, but it is certainly going to be deeply meaningful to many people who do go to Church.

(To answer the original question by the way, I personally don't do anything for Lent, but I'd certainly respect all those who do).

It is meaningless. It makes no change to anything. Do you think God, if he existed, would care if you or I gave up Chocolate or ale or soap for a month? Personally If I were God I would focus on the lessons learnt review investigating what went wrong with the process that led to people like Hitler existing but each to their own...............

You know, it is possible to be gnostic without being disrespectful of others' beliefs.

I am not in any way disrespecting anyone's beliefs. They are free to hold and practice them at any time and I support that right entirely. In exchange I expect my right to point out that religion is a pointless load of old nonsense based on mumbo jumbo to be equally respected. That is what a free society is all about.

PS I am not agnostic. I am an atheist.

 

[pemma]

I am not in any way disrespecting anyone's beliefs. They are free to hold and practice them at any time and I support that right entirely. In exchange I expect my right to point out that religion is a pointless load of old nonsense based on mumbo jumbo to be equally respected. That is what a free society is all about.

There are Christians who believe things written in the Bible are incorrect due to poor translation or being bias as all the accounts are from writers who believed strongly in God and/or Jesus. For instance, some believe 'Virgin Mary giving birth in a manger because there was no room at the inn' actually meant 'Unmarried woman Mary gave birth alongside the animals (belonging to Joseph's relatives) where it was warm because the (unheated) guest room of the house was occupied by other guests.'

 

[Hornet]

Used to do the season of Lent. Lent my mate a fiver. Never got it back. Taught me a lesson!

 

[tony_mac]

I don’t give up anything for Lent. In fact I’m not actually aware of when it starts.

you mean that you don't celebrate pancake day?

 

[GatwickDepress]

Being Muslim I don't celebrate Lent, but I do watch the wonderful"Cigarettes and Alcohol and Rollerblading" episode of Father Ted.

No. Mainly because it is pointless religious guff. Can you not give stuff up at other times of the year or is it only possible during silly religious festival times?

DynamicSpirit has a point; whenever religious stuff comes up you always act like a total prat about your atheism and views on religion. You come across as worse than most god-botherers.

 

[DarloRich]

DynamicSpirit has a point; whenever religious stuff comes up you always act like a total prat about your atheism and views on religion. You come across as worse than most god-botherers.

So it is OK to respect your religious views but not my non religious views - how does that work?

 

[GatwickDepress]

So it is OK to respect your religious views but not my non religious views - how does that work?

I respect your non-religious views. I didn't go "oh, so you're too immoral to believe in the true creator, you sinner", did I?

 

[DarloRich]

I respect your non-religious views. I didn't go "oh, so you're too immoral to believe in the true creator, you sinner", did I?

My point is you are very welcome to do so. I accept that is your belief and I support entirely your right to express that belief. While i may be direct in my presentation of my views I simply ask for the same support & acknowledgement in return.

PS if God judges me on this thread alone he must overlook a lot of poor conduct. I will just crack on with the gambling, smoking, drinking, out of wedlock fornication and creating false icons of Marco Gabbiadini

 

[Crossover]

'Virgin Mary giving birth in a manager because there was no room at the inn'

That's a new one on me

 

[Aussie_Rail]

I usually give up things like fast food, chocolate, alcohol that sort of thing. I think its nice to have a sort of detox period each year.

 

[najaB]

PS I am not agnostic. I am an atheist.

Atheism is just as 'bad' as theism.

 

[DarloRich]

Atheism is just as 'bad' as theism.

perhaps - but is it not worthy of the same respect and protection?

 

[AlterEgo]

you mean that you don't celebrate pancake day?

No, and I don’t know when it is.

 

[Bromley boy]

Atheism is just as 'bad' as theism.

I always struggle to understand aetheism. It’s paradoxically closer to a religious belief than agnosticism as the true aetheist, unable to prove a negative, must believe there is no divine being. That doesn’t seem any more or less rational than believing in a god, spiritualism, or whatever.

An agnostic on the other hand simply admits “I don’t know”.

 

[najaB]

perhaps - but is it not worthy of the same respect and protection?

It is. I fully support and respect your belief that there is no god, and I wouldn't call you stupid for believing that. The same respect that I'd give to people who do believe in a deity.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I am not in any way disrespecting anyone's beliefs. They are free to hold and practice them at any time and I support that right entirely.

But respecting other people's beliefs isn't just about allowing them to practice their beliefs. It's also about talking to and referring to people in a way that is respectful towards them. You claim to respect people's religious beliefs, but the phrases I've highlighted in bold below use language that looks inherently disrespectful. That contradicts your claim to respect religious people's beliefs:

No. Mainly because it is pointless religious guff. Can you not give stuff up at other times of the year or is it only possible during silly religious festival times?

I am not in any way disrespecting anyone's beliefs. They are free to hold and practice them at any time and I support that right entirely. In exchange I expect my right to point out that religion is a pointless load of old nonsense based on mumbo jumbo to be equally respected. That is what a free society is all about.

It's perfectly possible to say that you don't believe in God and don't therefore celebrate (or see any purpose in) Lent without using words like 'silly' or 'guff' or 'mumbo jumbo'.

(The second quote is also of somewhat dubious accuracy since the phrase 'point out' implies that something is an established fact, whereas what you claim to be pointing out is just your personal opinion).

I realise there can be a fine line where if you genuinely believe that someone else's opinions are silly, then it can be difficult to find language that expresses your views without coming across as disrespectful, but difficult isn't the same as impossible!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I always struggle to understand aetheism. It’s paradoxically closer to a religious belief than agnosticism as the true aetheist, unable to prove a negative, must believe there is no divine being. That doesn’t seem any more or less rational than believing in a god, spiritualism, or whatever.

An agnostic on the other hand simply admits “I don’t know”.

We live in a World in which it appears to be impossible to function without taking at least some beliefs essentially on faith. For example, virtually all reasoning relies on an implicit assumption that the rules of logic somehow represent reality. That seems to me a very reasonable thing to believe, because using logic always seems to work very well in practice, but the assumption that logic represents reality is still something that we all put our faith in, without any means to prove it. (And that's assuming my memories of all the times I've used logic are correct - another belief that you have to take on faith).

Both of the statements 'there is a God' and 'there is no God' do though feel to me like they represent a much bigger leap of faith than something like 'logic represents reality and does work' or 'My memories are (mainly) real'. And I do agree with you that claiming there is no God seems to be just as big an act of faith as claiming there is a God. To be fair though, most religious people don't merely claim that there is a God, but go on to claim lots of supposed facts about that God (for example that the Bible is the Word of God). That all seems to me to be less reasonable, and an even bigger act of faith than merely believing in the existence/nonexistence of God).

 

[pemma]

Do you think God, if he existed, would care if you or I gave up Chocolate or ale or soap for a month?

It would surely depend how you do it. If you give up alcohol for a month and then use the money saved to other's benefits then yes I think if God existed he would recognise that as an act of generosity. If you give up chocolate for a month but use the money you save to buy other snacks instead then I'm not so sure.

The reason Sunday is considered a rest day in our country relates to Christianity, as is the reason the country has close to an annual shut down on 25th December. Do you also believe they are pointless?

 

[BlueFox]

And I do agree with you that claiming there is no God seems to be just as big an act of faith as claiming there is a God

I don't see why. If no one had invented the concept of gods, we'd all be atheists.


Are people agnostic when it comes to gods like Ra, Thor, Neptune etc, or is it acceptable to say we don't believe in them?

 

[Bromley boy]

Are people agnostic when it comes to gods like Ra, Thor, Neptune etc, or is it acceptable to say we don't believe in them?

Agnostics wouldn’t believe in them either.

It is a leap of faith to state that god as a concept doesn’t exist because you as an atheist cannot prove a negative.

 

[GB]

The reason Sunday is considered a rest day in our country relates to Christianity, as is the reason the country has close to an annual shut down on 25th December. Do you also believe they are pointless?

A day or two off work when 90% of the rest of the country is shut down can never be pointless.

 

[DarloRich]

It is. I fully support and respect your belief that there is no god, and I wouldn't call you stupid for believing that. The same respect that I'd give to people who do believe in a deity.

I have called no one with faith silly.

But respecting other people's beliefs isn't just about allowing them to practice their beliefs. It's also about talking to and referring to people in a way that is respectful towards them. You claim to respect people's religious beliefs, but the phrases I've highlighted in bold below use language that looks inherently disrespectful. That contradicts your claim to respect religious people's beliefs:

It's perfectly possible to say that you don't believe in God and don't therefore celebrate (or see any purpose in) Lent without using words like 'silly' or 'guff' or 'mumbo jumbo'.

(The second quote is also of somewhat dubious accuracy since the phrase 'point out' implies that something is an established fact, whereas what you claim to be pointing out is just your personal opinion).

I realise there can be a fine line where if you genuinely believe that someone else's opinions are silly, then it can be difficult to find language that expresses your views without coming across as disrespectful, but difficult isn't the same as impossible!

It seems you and others are unable to deal with direct criticism. I maintain, for the avoidance of doubt, that I have not attacked anyone for holding faith. That is their right. I attack the concept of faith in a deity no one has ever seen and who seems to have no direct impact on my life in general and one who seems happy to allow monstrous people to exist and behave as they choose.

 

[pemma]

A day or two off work when 90% of the rest of the country is shut down can never be pointless.

If most people no longer celebrate the birth of Jesus then Christmas could become just like May Day in the future, opposed to a special bank holiday where people can't be asked to work.