Senior Rail Staff and their avoidance of justice

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319321

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You may remember me from a thread- about c2c disputing the validity of my Travelcard from Rochford to Zones 1-6. This matter was (at least I thought) in my favour a few months ago, and I will get round to uploading the case and negotiations eventually, unfortunatly depression makes me dopey.

I have been following up some aspects of this case over the weekend, and found out that two member of staff involved have not only kept their jobs despite their (in my opinion) criminal incompetence, but THEY HAVE BEEN PROMOTED!!!

This has made me so angry. These two senior railway professionals, who lack the knowledge that is expected of the lay passenger in order to avoid criminal sanctions and penalties, have been promoted. I would have liked to have seen them sacked, but to see them promotoed is just rubbing salt in the wound. I feel like all the commitments that c2c gave me in their letter apologising for their conduct about lessons having been learned is worth nothing.

What kind of lesson is it teaching other members of staff about having respect for passengers, for the Railway Byelaws and the National Rail Conditions of Carriage if people who treat passengers as they treated me can not only remain in their jobs, but be promoted? The original ticket inspector who accused me of fraud and travelling with an invalid ticket is still in her joib as far as I am aware, but I have not checked in recent months. These people are getting away with crime, and in an industry that is supposed to be well regulated and supervised by the government.

I am now looking at all the options available to me, including reopening the case in court as c2c are not keeping their part of the settlement.

Mod - Previous thread here
 
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Chew Chew

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The reality is that their promotion has absolutely nothing to do with you and you need to understand and accept that.
 

najaB

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I am now looking at all the options available to me, including reopening the case in court as c2c are not keeping their part of the settlement.
I must say that I'm very surprised that the settlement included a ban on the career progression of the individuals concerned.
 

Camden

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I would be interested to hear what "settlement" the OP received.
 

Hadders

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I remember your case and I did feel you had a strong case. I'd be interested to k ow the outcome.

As for individual members of staff you have no place demanding a particular course of action is taken. That is a confidential matter between the company and its members of staff.

Your case was a complex one and reasons to award or not to award a promotion can't (and won't) be based on what happened because of one complex case.

You need to let go and move on.
 

AntoniC

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Promotion bans do exist in the Civil Service where I work, but they are always for a set period of time, they are never indefinite.

Looks like they served their bans and got promoted, which as others have said, has got nothing to do with you.
 

LordCreed

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Having just spent the past hour reading your previous thread and the sixty page attachment, it's certainly a complex and interesting case.

I'm going to ignore the question regarding ticket validity and compensation for the purposes of this reply, as I don't feel they are relevant to this specific thread.

From what I can tell, both ATOC and c2c feel that the ticket was invalid, and therefore the staff, both at the gateline and in the office, were correct.

Why would any company punish staff whom they feel acted rightfully?

Now, whilst I personally would have taken the NRE journey plan to have been valid, I can understand why staff would be suspicious of a ticket they've not seen before and of a rather convoluted route. From what I can tell they weren't happy with the ticket, so they made you purchase a new one and then said you could complain to c2c if you believed this was unjust.

In this case, the staff took the best course of action that they believed at the time. Whilst they might need some retraining on ticket acceptance, calling for them to be fired and making threats as per your sixty page document is bang out of order.

At the end of the day, ticket examiners and gateline staff make mistakes, the tickets are so convoluted that it's no surprise that they get it wrong on the odd occasion - hence why appeal processes exist. What shouldn't happen is the same mistakes time and time over.

I honestly feel that if you've been compensated and the case closed, then it should be dropped.
 

319321

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From what I can tell, both ATOC and c2c feel that the ticket was invalid, and therefore the staff, both at the gateline and in the office, were correct.

Why would any company punish staff whom they feel acted rightfully?

Because the original ticket inspectors were wrong and they committed a crime under the railway byelaws by inconveniencing a person on or about the railway - they made me miss the train that I had intended to catch.

In a meeting I held with the then Customer Experience Manager of NXET Trains, he assured me that lessons would be learned that that staff would in future be competent for their role and that lying would not be tolerated.

I did not need to show them a ticket. NXET Trains admitted that my ticket was valid in their defence in the case (in fact, in the first paragraph).

The case was never really about the money, it was about me being able to feel safe when travelling by train.

Now, whilst I personally would have taken the NRE journey plan to have been valid, I can understand why staff would be suspicious of a ticket they've not seen before and of a rather convoluted route. From what I can tell they weren't happy with the ticket, so they made you purchase a new one and then said you could complain to c2c if you believed this was unjust.

Passengers who make mistakes are prosecuted under the railway byelaws, and the only reason that the original ticket inspectors did not face a prosecution is because it took so damn long for them to realise that they had made a mistake that they were protected by the six month prosecution rule.

 
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headshot119

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I think you need to let this one go. It's not realistic to expect people not to be promoted because of one incident.
 

319321

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Even when they are committing crimes against their passengers? In my job, if I had committed a crime against a customer I would have expected to be sacked on the spot for gross misconduct. Clearly a different world view prevails in the railway industry.
 

Bletchleyite

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Even when they are committing crimes against their passengers? In my job, if I had committed a crime against a customer I would have expected to be sacked on the spot for gross misconduct. Clearly a different world view prevails in the railway industry.

The Byelaws cloud what is really going on - many industries inconvenience their customers to a far greater extent than the railway - but only on the railway is that enshrined in some kind of law, largely for historical rather than practical reasons.
 

Hadders

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Even when they are committing crimes against their passengers? In my job, if I had committed a crime against a customer I would have expected to be sacked on the spot for gross misconduct. Clearly a different world view prevails in the railway industry.

I don't work, and never have worked, in the rail industry. I don't and won't stick up for staff when they've done something wrong but the fault usually lies with the industry itself rather than any one individual. All this talk of crimes against passengers will get you nowhere and could see you losing goodwill you have gained.

I'll repeat what I said earlier and what many others have said: let go and move on.
 

najaB

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There's no point in discussing the rights and wrongs of the original case.
 

Chew Chew

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Even when they are committing crimes against their passengers? In my job, if I had committed a crime against a customer I would have expected to be sacked on the spot for gross misconduct. Clearly a different world view prevails in the railway industry.

Being sacked on the spot when outwith any sort of probation period doesn't really exist in the real world.

Investigations and contact with the appropriate HR people will happen before any decision is taken on the employment of someone as if you don't follow the correct protocol the employer could end up in a lot of trouble.

You've said before that you are autistic. Do you think that this may be hampering you from being able to draw a line and moving on?
 

matt_world2004

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I know how these things can eat you on the inside op,How sometimes you can have no control over the feelings of a get and helplessness at being treated badly. If it makes you feel better and you take c2c as a commuter with a travel card. Buy a paper travel card,Request a travel card survey from Tfl next February and just omit any travel on c2c from the Survey. The travel card survey is used to allocate revenue from travel card sales to the various companies so Just say you got the district line instead. Also do not buy any tickets from c2c ticket offices or ticket machines to stop them getting their retailer bonus.
 

snail

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Because the original ticket inspectors were wrong and they committed a crime under the railway byelaws by inconveniencing a person on or about the railway - they made me miss the train that I had intended to catch.
Without dragging us back to the original thread where is there anything about that in the Byelaws? They are about the conduct of persons on the railway with few, if any, applying specifically to railway staff.

As for the promotions I concur with what others have said. They are company employees. If the company think they can do a different job then that's the company's decision. In terms of your grievance, take comfort that they are no longer doing their old jobs.
 
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Panda

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The punishment should fit the crime. You were inconvenienced, not murdered.
 

Flamingo

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Whatever issues the OP has, either personally or with the TOC, this "following up" or however they wish to term it, is, IMHO, getting very close to stalking and harassment (also crimes).

Along with pretty-much everybody else, I would strongly urge the OP to give it up and get another hobby, or it will end in tears...
 
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ralphchadkirk

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I've skim read some of the thread and emails, you're rude, uncooperative and frankly need to grow up.
 

Mike395

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I don't think there's anything to be gained by letting this discussion continue - so am closing this.
 
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