Service disruption threads

Discussion in 'Forum Information & Announcements' started by Mojo, 3 Feb 2018.

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  1. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Having reviewed recent threads discussing disruption on the railway we would request that members do not post threads relating to fatalities and other incidents (such as broken down trains or signalling faults) on the railway unless they require advice on their alternative travel options or if the case has been reported by reputable national media outlets.

    In addition for threads started to discuss fatalities or other person hit by train/person under train incidents, the Forum Staff request that members take into account guidance published by the Samaritans on this subject:
    For further information, please see the attached guidelines PDF on the Samaritans website by clicking here.

    For example we do not want to see threads where the content is solely:
     
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  3. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    I support this wholeheartedly, but I'm afraid I only know about it because it was linked from another thread.

    Is there any way of having announcements pop up on a one-time basis for logged-in users? I understand that it's probably not desired to have a site-wide banner for every topic.
     
  4. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    This was already planned to have been done.
     
  5. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    I just received a little pop up notification but the link contained within it was broken, if that’s of any use to the administrators.
     
  6. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    Thanks for this - the link from the pop-up box worked for me.
     
  7. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

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    Cheers folks. I fully support this and will keep my mouth shut for once.
     
  8. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    While I can see the point about being overly specific and/or prying about fatalities (although I severly doubt that this forum is well known or popular enough to have any significant imitational effect; still better to play it safe I suppose), having a policy of pretending that (minor-ish) disruption doesn't happen seems a bit of an overreaction. Presumably that's something that the TOC representatives on this forum have been pushing for...
     
  9. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    It is of course valuable to have descriptions of issues which HAVE made it to the "reputable national media", if only to get a more accurate account of what has happened compared to them. Having passed the recent Waterloo collision site within an hour of it happening, and written about it here, I guess that is covered on the basis that it was already (somewhat garbled compared to actuality) BBC headlines.
     
  10. westv

    westv Established Member

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    Re "delay due to signal failure etc" threads, I feel as this is solving a problem that really doesn't exist. Where's the flood of fake news delay threads that has led to this advice?
     
  11. Dai Corner

    Dai Corner Established Member

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    For the avoidance of doubt can we confirm (or otherwise) that National Rail Enquiries, NR and TOC websites/Twitter, Journeycheck and the like are considered to be 'reputable national media outlets' for the purpose?

    I note the Samaritans' advice and will of course comply should I ever be unfortunate enough to witness such an event.
     
  12. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I am not sure what you are referring to? There is no suggestion that there are “fake” delay threads being created, the point is that we are not NRE/JourneyCheck/etc, and thus we have taken a decision that we do not want threads created to mention that there is disruption in A Location due to An Incident, unless this is newsworthy enough to appear in reputable national media (eg. the Minister that was stuck for hours on a delayed train and missed an event), or if customers require journey information.

    No, this refers to organisations like BBC, Telegraph, Times, etc. The objective is to differentiate between every service disruption and delays that are “newsworthy” (eg. derailments of passenger trains, prolonged delays, and so on).
     
    Last edited: 5 Feb 2018
  13. westv

    westv Established Member

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    Are people not allowed to ask what
    But are you saying we aren't allowed to discuss any delay unless it is mentioned on the BBC? That's nonsense! Why shouldn't we be able to discuss delays we may be involved in with others who may be in the same position?!
     
  14. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    If you read the opening post it states that if you require travel advice then there is no problem with such posts.
     
  15. anti-pacer

    anti-pacer Established Member

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    Read, and I will fully support and abide by this.
     
  16. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    This is neither about pretending that "disruption doesn't happen", nor has anything to do with "TOC representatives on this forum", whatever the latter is supposed to mean.
    This is about keeping the forum manageable and free from clutter. The forum is not, and has never been intended as a substitute for National Rail Enquires, which remain the ultimate source of information for travel disruption in this country.

    Topical discussions re: issues such as technical matters will still be permitted, however threads which purely contain a sentence about there being a points failure somewhere, or a train breaking down, without any specific topic for discussion will be liable for removal as these serve no useful purpose by themselves.

    For an overview of all travel disruption at any particular point in time, please refer to National Rail Enquiries website. Any enquiries on travel options can be freely posted on the forum.
     
  17. eastdyke

    eastdyke Established Member

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    Interesting, I now understand why I had a thread removed last Friday.
    I didn't understand at the time, I was given:
    'Reason: 75 - Does not warrant a new topic'
    Is there a list of reasons somewhere? I couldn't find one.
    I wonder what the other (at least 74) reasons are!
     
  18. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    It's an interesting one this, because occasionally those one sentence posts can spawn interesting discussion. For example, this thread started off as

    Which doesn't really seem to be a topical discussion starter. Obviously since then it's turned into something of a discussion about wrong roads generally, but it could have easily been locked early on. But I suppose that's a risk that will have to be taken.

    * I think there might have been a question added on, but since deleted, but from memory it wasn't a particularly open ended one?
     
  19. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    In my experience unless a delay occurs in Scotland (where even a small number of trains being a few minutes late one morning peak is considered worthy of a BBC News headline before lunchtime), BBC News almost never report on incidences of broken down trains, points failures, lineside fires, landslips and other damage or overrunning engineering work until a long time after the disruption, including major disruption, has begun. In some cases they're passed over totally. The last incidence of England or Wales train service disruption BBC News reported was the reopening of the Treherbert line on the 25th Jan.

    So in my view this policy does not allow for discussions of things like that unless and until they're picked up by busy news teams who have higher priorities. There was a major incident which prompted huge discussion where hundreds of people were evacuated from a train at Spalding not long ago. This thread would not have qualified under Mojo's choice of words.

    In reality this would reduce the number of service disruption threads to near zero, although this was probably the intention of the policy.
     
  20. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You are correct that a line has to be drawn somewhere, and it is never going to be a perfect solution. We have analysed the way such threads have progressed on the forum in the past to arrive at a decision considered in the best interests of the forum. We appreciate that not everyone will be happy about this recent change, however as with most things, it is often difficult to please everyone. We will of course review this policy at the next opportunity. Should it turn out to stifle meaningful discussion, we will of course be willing to reconsider this measure.
     
  21. LiftFan

    LiftFan Member

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    What I had a good laugh about was when one of the Southern London - Brighton trains made the news because it was On time...
     
  22. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    I think that the reality is that in Scotland BBC News often report on matters which would not be worthy of the creation of a new topic, or to discuss them directly, and that in England at least, that they often don't report on matters which would.
     
  23. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Other news brands available ;)

    For the avoidance of doubt the wording was discussed by the whole team and with various different people contributing before it was approved by the whole team. It is not "Mojo's" choice of words.
     
  24. IanXC

    IanXC Emeritus Moderator

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    The numbers do go higher than 75, but they've not all been used. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend trying to find out, if you've had that many posts deleted no doubt you'd have got through a significant amount of our available sanctions too!

    There are many sources of news other than the BBC, and in any case you will often find that they at least include a few lines in their regional ''live latest updates" pages.

    Spalding is an interesting case, I seem to recall the major news media picked up on it at the time, however even if they didn't, I have no doubt that something as out of course as that would warrant a thread:

     
  25. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    The words used by Mojo give only two exceptions. One is if travel advice is required, the other is that a well reputed major news organisation has reported on the case. However, bb21 then indicated that further exceptions might apply, including:
    I'm not really sure what that means but it sounds good.

    I completely agree. And I think that a reason that some other members have reacted with confusion is because the words in post 1 do not make that clear.
     
  26. Crossover

    Crossover Established Member

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    It’s a curious point. I very much support the one liners as per a couple of the examples here. Sometimes though someone can and has given more info and it can be more useful than any other site. I have myself posted a couple of times as a ‘roving reporter’ when stuck in the thick of it (some of you may recall my Drumgelloch farce!) which I’d like to think may help others who may otherwise run into the problem.

    I guess we can only know by running with it and seeing how it pans out
     
  27. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    ... just occasionally things work the other way.

    Post something on RailUK and the reputable media (and the Daily Mail) pick it up.

    Some of you will remember the signaller locking himself in the toilet at Henwick box near Worcester, which caused delays to trains. I posted details here gleaned from industry sources and one news outlet called me a "mischievous web forum user." :D
     
  28. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    I imagine it covers things like class 180 engines disintegrating and leaving the train stranded for several hours on a main line?
     
  29. MK Tom

    MK Tom Established Member

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    Totally get this regarding fatalities and I'd never start a thread about that anyway. The bit about breakdowns seems silly to me though. If I was on a service that had a breakdown or got stuck in some kind of disruption I would want to start a thread about it.

    If 'clutter' is the concern, perhaps disruptions could have their own section?
     
  30. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    The point is, if it’s worthy of having a discussion made about it, then it’s worth posting a thread. Delays occur all the time and by the nature of that, a not insignificant number of them do not warrant the creation of a new thread. If there are circumstances about it that makes it particularly notable, or a customer has a question about it, by all means create a new thread.
     
  31. MK Tom

    MK Tom Established Member

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    Ok yeah that makes sense.
     
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