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SE'trn Looking for Drivers

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TrackMann

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Thats what I put, I felt it important to continue with the customer I was currently dealing with whilst at the same time including them in the situation, and felt it polite and courteous to ask that person would they mind if I checked the ladies ticket so that they knew I was not just leaving them hanging whilst I attended to someone else, it shows your focused on the job your doing whilst simultaneously keeping an eye on your working environment

I don't think any of the answers can really specifically demonstrate that you're keeping an eye on the working environment. That's a given really because the arrival of the woman with the child is described in the question and all of the answers relate to that.

I think a significant amount of customers would be irritated by D (unlike myself) because it shows that they are no longer a priority and whilst you may be giving them the options many customers will be too embarrassed/pressured into saying it's ok when really they might have liked to say no and continued with their query. Either way they'll take that experience with them and it will affect their opinion of the company.

Likewise, would the second customer be happy that the staff member (who is supposed to be manning the gate) would only check her ticket with the first customer's permission rather than doing it simultaneously, given that this could cause a delay.



Answer C sort of implies that the ticket wasn't checked but it doesn't explicitly say that. We can only take the information that is there and hence we do not know that answer C dictates that you are not doing your job properly. Answer A also omits any details about checking a ticket, so is that the worst answer? You could also argue that answer B doesn't specifically say that the ticket's valid, just that the gate was opened regardless. Sure, this would usually just be a case of semantics but when a TOC is putting so much weight on the finer interpretations of these situations I think it deserves criticism like this and it makes it incredibly important that they're answers are completely justified. I think they themselves should have to justify them. It's a shame that recruitment isn't properly regulated, can you imagine a quiz like this for a mortgage!



I do understand you feel frustrated, but there is no wrong or right way to answer the questions.

They always say that but it clearly not true. Some answers score points and some don't.



It isn't just Southeastern either, you will find that all TOCS use the same points based scoring system and its been in use for quite a while now

I've applied to 4 other TOC's with varying success and this is the first one of these I've seen so far. I've come across things like this several times outside of Rail though and I've just had enough of this unjustified Bulsh*t :)




Sorry Pepperami, this isn't an attack on you personally.
 
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Pepperami

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Yeah I don't take it personally mate, and I understand what your saying, you give valid points for the answers, and at the end of the day, if SE have set the bar then we can only do our best
 

IKB

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Since the issue of the questionnaire has been raised, here’s my two cents worth. (Apologies in advance this is a long post!). I have to agree with TrackMann above.

I did not get on very well with the questionnaire, despite having worked in various customer service roles since I was 16 and never had a complaint. After I had “failed” the questionnaire I ran through my responses with my partner who also has a large amount of customer service experience. What follows is not sour grapes but thoughtful feedback on the process used.

The trouble with some of the questions are that unless you know the internal policies/rules/values of the company, then you may make a decision that the passenger thinks is providing a good 'customer service' but one that is detrimental to the greater good or end up contravening company policy.

Everyone reads a situation slightly differently and some people are more diplomatic than others. Providing a good customer service does not always involve saying “yes” and acquiescing to whatever the customer requests. Managing peoples expectations, especially when they are being totally unrealistic, is an important part of the role. Here’s a crap example but bare with me: imagine a waiter at a restaurant spills some tap water over a customers’ new thousand pound dress. If waiter promises that the restaurant will pay for new dress I’m sure the customer would think that is providing them a great service (they can’t believe their luck, making a fuss does work!). Anyone thinking sensibly and rationally would acknowledge the customer is being completely unrealistic over a temporary patch of water that will dry out. I doubt the waiter would be very popular if he kept making such expensive promises on behalf of his employer. That’s not the best example, but you see what I’m getting at.

Turning to the questionnaire, consider the question of the ticketless passenger who needs to make the train but has spent a while queuing to renew his season ticket. He wants to be let through the barrier without a ticket in order to make the train. I’m sure a passenger in that position would think the best customer service option is to let them through the barrier and on the train (if we all had a train to catch I’m sure we’d all agree!). But unless you have first hand knowledge of company policy, how do you know what level of discretion you are allowed at the barrier? Is there not a national condition of carriage stating you must buy tickets before boarding if ticket facilities are available? Does the company prioritise letting passengers on the train without a ticket in order to provide a great customer service, or does it put a greater emphasis on revenue protection? (The uniformed revenue protection officers on the Southeastern network would suggest the latter). I thought the most suitable answer of those available was to take the passenger and ask the conductor if he could buy a ticket on-board (i.e. personally accompanying the passenger, showing concern/interest and trying to resolve the issue). For the reasons mentioned above, I discounted the answers that simply suggested buying a ticket on the train and potentially risk incurring a fine you cannot reverse. If you allow leniency to the passenger in the scenario, what about the 2nd, 3rd and 4th person who walks up behind the passenger expecting the same treatment? Again, we all know what the answer is to make the customer happy, but is that necessarily the right answer if it contravenes policy? Unless you're an internal applicant, you're not going to know what the company line is or what discretion you are allowed. It’s easy to think of another scenario with similar internal contradictions: would the company prefer a train driver exceed the speed to limit to reach the destination on time in order to provide a good customer service (I think not!), or would the company prioritise obeying driving regulations and passenger safety over the train being a few minutes late?

One question provided two possible answers that should not have been mutually exclusive: an elderly gent struggling to pay at the ticket machine with a long queue forming behind. Approaching that scenario, I would automatically realise that there is long queue of people being held up (ie the greater number who also have places to be). It would take mere seconds to inform them there are ticket machines around the corner before going straight to the struggling customer to offer assistance. Unfortunately the question only permitted one of these solutions. I naturally discounted the option of standing by and waiting to be asked as that obviously does not help the situation and, similarly, discounted the option of immediately carrying out the transaction for him as the customer may find that demeaning.

Another question raised an issue about enforcement of railway bylaws and the company’s approach to confrontation. The scenario described two males on the station smoking cigarettes and who had apparently consumed alcohol. The options available were: approach them and ask them to stop (sounds sensible, the answer I plumped for), make a tannoy announcement about no smoking, call your supervisor or doing nothing as some battles are not worth fighting. I think it is common knowledge among the public that smoking on the station is breaking a bylaw/legislation and not just company rules. Assuming Southeastern manage the station in question, does it fall to their staff to tackle minor transgressions of the bylaws (ie a quiet word in the ear, trying to keep everyone happy) or does it fall solely to the BTP to enforce them? What is the company line on potentially confrontational situations and the onus on staff to get involved? A grey area that the questionnaire does not provide for.

Consider the passenger approaching you and demanding to see the manager. The most sensible answer to me was to first ask the customer if there was anything you could assist them with (it could be what they are demanding is within your gift and there is no need to involve a manager). For obvious reasons I discounted the answers stating the manager was unavailable or would simply repeat what you were saying as these are disingenuous and unhelpful. The scenario raises questions as to the expectations of managers/supervisors towards their front line staff? Do they want to be called to every trivial incident where a decision needs to be made, or are staff encouraged to use their own judgement in all but the most serious circumstances? Unless you know the company culture, you could end up making yourself very unpopular dragging your manager into every incident. Just because a customer demands to see the manager does not mean they should automatically be granted this wish. Some of our more interesting citizens attend the gates of Buckingham Palace and demand to see the Queen. Naturally their expectations are managed and politely told this is not possible! I don’t think the guard on the gate would remain in post very long if he provided a great customer service and allowed the person access.

One question presented a scenario of all trains/lines stopped due to an incident. You as the staff member are to address the crowd when a man purporting to be a judge pushes to the front of crowd telling you of his urgent need to travel. The potential responses included: allowing the judge immediate use of your mobile telephone, asking him politely to wait whilst you addressed the crowd with an update on what’s happening or advising and outlining alternative travel arrangements to him personally. Bearing in mind you are faced with a crowd who also no doubt have urgent travel needs, why should the judge deserve special treatment and delay you updating the greater number simply because he shouts the loudest? Diverting your attention may upset the vast majority who are waiting for you to update them on what is happening. I would politely ask him to bear with me whilst I update everyone on progress and options, before turning the judge and dealing with his specific issue. The wording of the answers suggested the questionnaire wanted the judges’ enquiry dealt with there and then that I do not necessarily agree with. Again, so long as you are polite, how you mange those conflicting demands depends on the dynamic of the situation in front of you. If the crowd is in a mood to lynch you, you’re going to update them as soon as you can with what information you have.

One question raised the dilemma of dealing with more than one customer at once. If you are already talking with a customer at the barrier and a woman with a buggy and screaming child approaches in order to be let through, would it not be sensible in the interests of keeping everyone happy and keeping the flow of passengers moving to politely ask the person you're dealing with if they mind you briefly letting the woman through? The question does not state how long your conversation with the customer is going to last. If, for arguments sake, it lasts five minutes and during that time a queue forms at your ticket gate, it would be pertinent to ask your customer politely if they could hold on one moment whilst you let the mother with screaming child and maybe a few others through to save holding them up (and defacto them experiencing a poor customer service by being kept waiting). The possible responses to the scenario included ignoring the woman and screaming child (not helpful, especially if you’re trying to have a conversation), automatically waving the woman through without breaking your conversation with customer (not polite, nor responsible towards revenue protection), or the option I chose asking the customer politely to wait whilst you opened the barrier.

Anyway, to sum I thought there were too many grey areas and other options/possibilities depending on company policy and or the dynamic of the situation in front of you. Naturally Southeastern can institute whatever questions they like when recruiting staff, but they risk excluding excellent candidates based on such a crude questionnaire.
 
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heart-of-wessex

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Spot on, yes I also didn't put the best answer as 'let him through and buy a ticket on the train' as I know the passenger would end up with some PF, how many people would know that beforehand is something else.

A test like that would be best face to face at some interview so you could at least explain why you would choose that answer too.

Anyway I did get through to the first stage of the FGW Trainee Driver before, and there was no customer service based questions in the application (or the tests) at all. The form I filled in was straight to the point, 'give an example of when you had to concentrate for long periods..' 'give an example of when you had to deal with an emergency...', basically questions along those lines that a driver would deal with, reactions, concentration and such like.
 

red2005

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My issue with it isn't that customer service is irrelevant to the role, it's that the questions aren't adequate at differentiating between a good and poor customer service attitude.


Let's look at the example mentioned above:


You are working at the gate to the side of the automatic barriers between the station concourse and the platforms checking tickets. You are currently in the middle of a conversation dealing with a customer’s query, when a woman with a baby in a buggy who is screaming loudly walks up to the gate to be let through.

Do you:

a. Finish your conversation with the customer before attending to the woman with the baby as it is important to focus on the person with whom you’re dealing at the time?

b. Continue your conversation with the customer whilst checking the woman’s ticket and subsequently letting her through?

c. Open the gate without a break in the conversation?

d. Ask the customer whether they mind if you swiftly check the woman’s ticket?


There's arguments and justifications for each answer to be the best and worst. It comes down to opinion and many customers will have hugely varying opinions on each topic. For example I would find it distracting and hence very annoying that there was a screaming baby in the background as I'm talking to a member of staff and I'd be frustrated if the staff member just ignored it. But there will be other people that would find it rude for the member of staff to divert their attention from them in the slightest, even just to ask permission to pause the conversation.
SouthEastern HR have just decided that their opinion on all of these subjects is Gospel and if your view doesn't quite line up with their interpretation then you don't get a fair shot at the job.


Ridiculous

unfortunately mate when it comes to applying for a job THEY are advertising their opinion IS gospel.....whether you agree with it or not they have a certain way in which they want things done (every toc is different by the way) and what people's opinions are is pretty much irrelevant!

you put the answers in your own order of importance and unfortunately if it doesn't tally with what they are looking for it's game over!....doesn't mean you are not capable of doing the job just means you operate in I different way to what they are looking for!........I don't think it's ridiculous I think it's their right to get the people through the door that THEY want with the qualities they want. Unfortunately if that means you have to play a game of pot luck with questions on an application that's the way it has to be.

I had the same sort of questions when I applied for a driving position with GA....don't bother questioning the reasoning behind it just answer the questions and cross your fingers you have given the answers that they are looking for!
 

otomous

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If you can't deal with customer service as an absolutely fundamental part of the job (or indeed see that that is the case), you aren't a suitable candidate. Even with a train manager on board, as a driver I have multiple interactions with customers every time I leave the train - some easy, some complex, some nice, some potentially conflict-ridden - but for each of those passengers / customers, it may be the only interaction they have with a member of staff that day, so you are the face of the railway for them.

Well maybe a very similar TOC to Southeastern was wrong to employ me as a driver 5 years ago then! I spend about 1% of my time interacting with passengers and when I do, I use my common sense as a human being ie I am polite, professional and as helpful and informative as I can be. The job a driver is paid for is keeping the trains as safe and punctual as possible, and the reality is that no TOC, including SE, would be amused to find their drivers helping out in the ticket queue when they should be at the front of their unit. I accept that the test is designed to test one's ability to prioritise but the danger is that by insisting on right answers without knowing company policy especially when there are grey areas, that they will either exclude excellent potential drivers or include people who know how to answer the test but have no aptitude for driving! When LOROL were first recruiting in 2007 I remember many laughing at their assessment questions - eg, are you happy to work alone, happy to work shifts, happy to wear a uniform, etc, but these were far more relevant. I would also suggest that using this as an entry level is far more open to "gaming" ie someone hits on the right answers and then passes them on to others who give the right answer to get to the next stage but then may be a poor candidate for the job itself. Surely the application form itself should be used to assess initial candidate suitability as it contains questions about ALL aspects of the job and allows you the chance to explain your answers?
 
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red2005

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bottom line is times change!.......customer service is a big BIG part of the driver recruitment process now!......well it is for my toc anyway, if you don't really blitz customer service in the interviews etc you don't get the job....simple as
 

TrackMann

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unfortunately mate when it comes to applying for a job THEY are advertising their opinion IS gospel.....whether you agree with it or not they have a certain way in which they want things done (every toc is different by the way) and what people's opinions are is pretty much irrelevant!

you put the answers in your own order of importance and unfortunately if it doesn't tally with what they are looking for it's game over!....doesn't mean you are not capable of doing the job just means you operate in I different way to what they are looking for!........I don't think it's ridiculous I think it's their right to get the people through the door that THEY want with the qualities they want. Unfortunately if that means you have to play a game of pot luck with questions on an application that's the way it has to be.

I had the same sort of questions when I applied for a driving position with GA....don't bother questioning the reasoning behind it just answer the questions and cross your fingers you have given the answers that they are looking for!

Hi Red2005, I disagree with you slightly. I know that is the situation at present and that they can do whatever they want (almost) but I think that should not be the case.

I think employers should have a responsibility to use fair and relevant methods of recruiting. Obviously there are already some restrictions on recruitment techniques, for example would you argue that if a company thinks that white people are better at driving trains then THEY have the right to get the people that THEY want?

Regulatory bodies are important, for example Trading Standards, because just saying "If a company rips you off, just stop using that company" isn't enough. I think the same should apply to recruitment.
 
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red2005

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hiya mate

oh deffo not!! u should have the right to do whatever job you wish regardless of race religion or sexuality!

but they have to come up with a system that's fair and does not discriminate no matter who you are and systems like that are generally the only way to do it! especially when you are applying for a job that's dealing with people day in day out!

I know i'm opening up a can of worms here but this takes you back to the old driver guard thing where lots of people can technically be trained to be drivers however being good with people is something you generally have in your locker or you don't! (btw I am ex guard now driver so can see both sides he he he)

that's why I believe this system works to be fair as it doesn't discriminate! you either pass it or you don't as it's designed to test your judgement and it won't matter who you are or where you are from!....it is very frustrating as we'd all like to get put in front of a manager to put our case forward as to why we should get the job but with the numbers that now apply for these jobs I don't think it is possible and they have to whittle the numbers down somehow in a way that's cost effective!;(

I always said when I was applying for the drivers job if I could get in front of a manager at the last stage I thought could hold my own......it was just getting there that was the hard bit lol.....7 flippin years it took he he he
 
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TrackMann

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I think employers love the idea of a system which sifts through candidates based on character and without prejudice. Being able to quantify things like personality and opinion. I think this is why so many companies are thriving by flogging psychometric tests to employers but I don't think they work, they haven't got it right.
 

greatkingrat

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So what do you suggest instead? If a TOC is getting 500 applications for 5 jobs they have to have some way whittling them down to a manageable number for the next stage.
 

red2005

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I think in this age where the accusation of discrimination card is easily played or were people are throwing grievances around left right and centre because there are issues of fairness in the recruitment stage this is the only realistic way of doing it matey!

If they went back for example to the days of it's not what you know it's who you know or some other Victorian way of recruitment in this day in age they'd have more complaints than applications!

As time has gone on with all these 'glass ceilings' smashed and the number of applicants going through the roof etc the recruitment process has had to change with it! I suppose when you have those numbers a certain amount of ruthlessness has to naturally come in to it!....I reckon they'd love to offer interviews to everyone to see their true personalities! ( I reckon that'd sift out more than bad applicants than anything btw) but the sheer numbers make that impossible....as I say I've been on the receiving end of this system for years, it's frustrating at times it seems nasty it seems unfair but looking at the bigger picture I can't see many other options and I can see why it's in place :(
 

Northernboy67

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I have already taken an assessment for Station Staff, and applied for another role in South Eastern. I very much want to be a Train Driver in the Future. So I wonder If I should put my application's in!!!
 

Class2ldn

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I'm surprised se are using this test. Morale is low and they are so short of drivers at the moment. When crossrail opens they are going to be in trouble.
 

watchman87

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Im surprised there's not more of these sorts of assesments. Rightly or wrongly, they cropped up in loads of different jobs ive applied for. It's probably as much of a whittling tool to reduce applicant numbers as it a method to find "customer service optimal" people.

I've noticed the Southern recruitment site is identical so SE (no surprise seeing as they're both Govia). Is there not a similar questionnaire when applying to southern?
 

red2005

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I'm surprised se are using this test. Morale is low and they are so short of drivers at the moment. When crossrail opens they are going to be in trouble.

regardless.....would you let your standards drop simply because your short on drivers? this is train driving which carries immense responsibility!.....would you want someone driving your train that wasn't the right person for the job?
 

theageofthetra

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Northern Boy- I would definitely apply. I am near the end of my rules course and the depth and variety of backgrounds of the new driver intake is amazing. It would appear that the only barrier to becoming a driver is your own ability and being disabled or having a medical issue.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Actually thinking about it, depending on the disability as long as you can prove you can get in and out of the cab and walk down the track to place dets or reach a signal post phone why can't a disabled person drive a train? May start another thread on that!
 

DunfordBridge

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unfortunately mate when it comes to applying for a job THEY are advertising their opinion IS gospel.....whether you agree with it or not they have a certain way in which they want things done (every toc is different by the way) and what people's opinions are is pretty much irrelevant!

you put the answers in your own order of importance and unfortunately if it doesn't tally with what they are looking for it's game over!....doesn't mean you are not capable of doing the job just means you operate in I different way to what they are looking for!........I don't think it's ridiculous I think it's their right to get the people through the door that THEY want with the qualities they want. Unfortunately if that means you have to play a game of pot luck with questions on an application that's the way it has to be.

I had the same sort of questions when I applied for a driving position with GA....don't bother questioning the reasoning behind it just answer the questions and cross your fingers you have given the answers that they are looking for!

To my mind, this customer services questionnaire seems like an easy way of getting the numbers down for short-listing. I would say that so long as you exhibit an appreciation of good customer service, then you be taught to operate in the prescribed manner afterwards.

Incidentally, has anyone had problems contacting personnel? I will be applying but I will not be spending any more time on this application than is necessary.
 

Kukua

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is it just me or did anyone think that the OUR VALUES questions were nearly identical to the COMPETENCY QUESTIONS?
 

DunfordBridge

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I think employers love the idea of a system which sifts through candidates based on character and without prejudice. Being able to quantify things like personality and opinion. I think this is why so many companies are thriving by flogging psychometric tests to employers but I don't think they work, they haven't got it right.

I actually passed a Situational Judgement test for train driving with First Group earlier in the year but was unable to pass the subsequent telephone interview where I was assessed on such things as customer service and motivation. Clearly the tests are not enough on their own, better to rely on an old-fashioned interview ultimately but such is the need to minimise the numbers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So what do you suggest instead? If a TOC is getting 500 applications for 5 jobs they have to have some way whittling them down to a manageable number for the next stage.

The numbers may not be as daunting as they may seem. The quality of applicants could be described as variable and some companies actually use computers to perform some of the short-listing. I am sure that HR departments will find new and ingenious ways of minimising the workload even further.
 

Class2ldn

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regardless.....would you let your standards drop simply because your short on drivers? this is train driving which carries immense responsibility!.....would you want someone driving your train that wasn't the right person for the job?


Well I never had to do this when I worked for southeastern, does this mean I'm not the right person for the job?
This is very new to se AFAIK and if it wasn't applied I don't think you'd get anyone less able then someone who passed, I think train driving and customer interaction is being hyped up yet the only real interaction you have with people is over a pa. Most people especially commuters take no notice of drivers unless they want something (info etc) or when the poop hits the fan then suddenly they feel you are important.
At the end if the day it's just a way of whittling down the numbers and I think it's a farce. There's plenty of people that could do the job but have probably been knocked back by this questionnaire.
 
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TrackMann

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So what do you suggest instead? If a TOC is getting 500 applications for 5 jobs they have to have some way whittling them down to a manageable number for the next stage.


Well other than just using more resources to continue recruiting in the normal fashion, I don't have a brand new solution to instantly pick out the final candidates.

However, I DO have a more effective solution than the current questionnaire. They could write all the candidates names on table tennis balls, release them into the sea and then get a circus clown to jump in and retrieve 5 balls, then offer those people the job.




I'm surprised se are using this test. Morale is low and they are so short of drivers at the moment. When crossrail opens they are going to be in trouble.

regardless.....would you let your standards drop simply because your short on drivers? this is train driving which carries immense responsibility!.....would you want someone driving your train that wasn't the right person for the job?

But your previous post suggests this questionnaire only exists because of the increased number of applicants, not because it reflects the seriousness of the job.



I'd love to get the writers from one psychometric testing company to have to answer the questions of another companies' tests and vice versa to see what happens...
 

red2005

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like I said in an earlier post times change! and when those times change expectations and standards naturally change with it!.....no not at all there's drivers at our place that have 5 times the experience you have and are absolutely fantastic at their job but what the companies wanted back then may be completely different to what they want now!

yes most people could physically do most jobs on the railway most of it is hardly rocket science!.......but if their attitudes for example on certain aspects of the roles aren't what the company want them to be why should they employ them? there is more to employing someone than physically being able to do the job! for example I wouldn't employ someone that was just in it for the ££££ and couldn't give 2 hoots about the rest of the job when I was paying them good money!

why is that a farce?? at the end of the day it is a competition when you have those numbers applying! if you don't meet a standard or do as well as someone else tough luck really! it's called life!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well other than just using more resources to continue recruiting in the normal fashion, I don't have a brand new solution to instantly pick out the final candidates.

However, I DO have a more effective solution than the current questionnaire. They could write all the candidates names on table tennis balls, release them into the sea and then get a circus clown to jump in and retrieve 5 balls, then offer those people the job.






But your previous post suggests this questionnaire only exists because of the increased number of applicants, not because it reflects the seriousness of the job.



I'd love to get the writers from one psychometric testing company to have to answer the questions of another companies' tests and vice versa to see what happens...

the seriousness of the job is obvious!......and the details/questions within the questionnaire are very relevant to customer facing roles!

in no way is that the ONLY reason it exists! however it is a useful way of bringing the number of applicants down as if you don't meet a certain standard the company simply isn't wasting time money and resources on people that are not suited to the role!......seems harsh but reality
 
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TrackMann

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Red2005,

You keep saying times have changed. What specifically has changed in recent times that makes this particular test fair and just?

You seem to be defending the need for more slick processes rather than this test specifically. I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that recruitment teams have an increasing workload for rail recruitment. What we have a problem with is the fairness of this particular test. Do you think that this test is accurate, reliable and fair at distinguishing good customer service attitudes from poor ones?

Likewise the point raised by someone about the relevance of customer service in the role is a separate argument. What I'm suggesting is that this questionnaire doesn't properly filter candidates based on their customer service skills. I'm not suggesting customer service isn't important.


......seems harsh but reality

It is harsh and it is reality but it's not fair and it's not acceptable, that's why people are complaining.
 

IKB

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like I said in an earlier post times change! and when those times change expectations and standards naturally change with it!....... if you don't meet a standard or do as well as someone else tough luck really! it's called life!

the seriousness of the job is obvious!......and the details/questions within the questionnaire are very relevant to customer facing roles!
.......
if you don't meet a certain standard the company simply isn't wasting time money and resources on people that are not suited to the role!......seems harsh but reality

red2005 - I'm afraid you're rather missing the point. Banding around generic phrases such as "times change" does not engage with the arguments made previously by TrackMann or myself.

No-one is saying customer service in not important (read the first few paragraphs of my previous post). But the way that it is presented in the questionnaire is too clumsy and simplistic. Candidates should be given the opportunity to expand on their answers in an interview. The first example I described in my previous post - the man trying to board the train without a ticket - is a case in point. Company policy re revenue protection is surely at odds with giving the customer what they want by letting them through the barrier.

Without rehashing the arguments I made previously, there are many grey areas depending on the situation in front of you. I have many years of customer service experience, most latterly in the emergency services. I shoulder a considerable amount of responsibility in my current role and am professional at it. The questionnaire has denied me the opportunity of demonstrating my suitability in the application/interview.
 
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red2005

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Red2005,

You keep saying times have changed. What specifically has changed in recent times that makes this particular test fair and just?

You seem to be defending the need for more slick processes rather than this test specifically. I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that recruitment teams have an increasing workload for rail recruitment. What we have a problem with is the fairness of this particular test. Do you think that this test is accurate, reliable and fair at distinguishing good customer service attitudes from poor ones?

Likewise the point raised by someone about the relevance of customer service in the role is a separate argument. What I'm suggesting is that this questionnaire doesn't properly filter candidates based on their customer service skills. I'm not suggesting customer service isn't important.




It is harsh and it is reality but it's not fair and it's not acceptable, that's why people are complaining.

I honestly can't see why you think it isn't fair!......bottom line is if they asked you that type of question in an interview and you gave the answers that you did in the tests that you failed you would probably fail anyway (sorry if that sounds harsh it really isn't intended to be) as they would still require you to give them the answers they require!?

what's changed? well I'll keep it on topic and role specific.......safety has changed for one gone are the days when train drivers waited in the local pub for a danger aspect to change!.........the role of a driver has changed and is much more customer serviced based than what it used to be ( at least that is what the companies are trying to do) and most importantly society has changed!!customer service is more of an art form than anything else if you get it wrong you end up like the poor virgin TM the other day that got assaulted and there is this horrible claim culture where people will complain about the smallest things to see what they can get out of it so they have to be sure they have the right people with the same values as them through the door!

common sense does come into a lot of these tests but the unfortunate thing is no 2 people have the same level of common sense so it has to be the same for everybody

and you've gone from one company running the railway to numerous franchises all with a different view on how things should be run! like I said in an earlier post there is every chance your answers would have been good enough for another toc!

i think it is fair as it is open to anyone!.....unfortunately customer service is the one aspect of the role that is purely opinion based!....unfortunately for you your opinion has to match theirs as they are the ones doing the recruitment and you won't know that is the case or not until the test is over

i don't see how it cannot be fair as everybody who decides to take the test has the same chance as anybody pass or fail
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red2005 - I'm afraid you're rather missing the point. Banding around generic phrases such as "times change" does not engage with the arguments made previously by TrackMann or myself.

No-one is saying customer service in not important (read the first few paragraphs of my previous post). But the way that it is presented in the questionnaire is too clumsy and simplistic. Candidates should be given the opportunity to expand on their answers in an interview. The first example I described in my previous post - the man trying to board the train without a ticket - is a case in point. Company policy re revenue protection is surely at odds with giving the customer what they want by letting them through the barrier.

Without rehashing the arguments I made previously, there are many grey areas depending on the situation in front of you. I have many years of customer service experience, most latterly in the emergency services. I shoulder a considerable amount of responsibility in my current role and am professional at it. The questionnaire has denied me the opportunity of demonstrating my suitability in the application/interview.

how on earth can they put everyone who has an opinion on customer service through to an interview? it isn't logistically possible! what are they meant to do recruit extra personell staff for 1 or 2 recruitments a year? i understand that everyone wants to put their case forward as to why they should have the job but it simply isn't possible! I've just started as a driver myself so i know how tricky these processes can be and they certainly aint nice but you have to just accept what is in place

i am ex emergency services myself so i know what you mean!...the emergency services are adopting the same kind of approaches with personality tests etc and they can be just as ruthless!...the fire service in particular has always been ruthless given the numbers that apply!....sorry but morals only go so far! they want the right people for the job if their system has got them that in the past i doubt they will change it anytime soon!
 
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Class2ldn

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But why now are se adopting it? I only started there 4 years ago and times haven't changed that much in them 4 years. The company yes the role no so why do they now expect people to do this? Like I said it's just a way of whittling down the applicants. Not once was I asked a customer facing question through the whole process, examples of when I've done different things to promote my skills etc but none in the line of checking tickets, confrontations etc. The role of a driver is no more customer focused then it was 20 years ago, maybe it's down to doo and the belief that as you are the only person on the train you're more likely to interact with them (true in a way but mainly via the PA). Se seem to think they are a fantastic firm yet they dont seem to take on board what the staff want and as for the union well don't even get me started.
 

red2005

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But why now are se adopting it? I only started there 4 years ago and times haven't changed that much in them 4 years. The company yes the role no so why do they now expect people to do this? Like I said it's just a way of whittling down the applicants. Not once was I asked a customer facing question through the whole process, examples of when I've done different things to promote my skills etc but none in the line of checking tickets, confrontations etc. The role of a driver is no more customer focused then it was 20 years ago, maybe it's down to doo and the belief that as you are the only person on the train you're more likely to interact with them (true in a way but mainly via the PA). Se seem to think they are a fantastic firm yet they dont seem to take on board what the staff want and as for the union well don't even get me started.

Well I think you just answered your own question!......the company changed!..... It only takes one change of director that has different ideas!.....maybe a lot of companies have gone down this route as they see customer service as more important now or that it never used to be as good as it should of been! (Not my opinion just a thought) or maybe SE have had numerous incidents which lead to them having to try something different! Maybe they had times before where bad eggs got positions!? Maybe organisations like RSSB or the testing guys have got around a table with companies and told them to review how they recruit!??

The physical role of a driver ( as in operating the train) may not have changed (much) but the expectations that companies have of their drivers most definitely has over the past 20 years! Whether that be safety or customer service. I'm in training now on the new style driving course and the expectations are immense!

Well no one else had that opportunity either that's where my issue with the fairness comments in previous posts come in! they obviously see your opportunity to do that is in an interview! If you have to jump through hoops to get there that's what you do! (We all had to) It may not be a way that's to yours or others liking or ideal but it won't matter how much you complain you just have to plod on with it! (Not preaching just saying) It's not like it's impossible to pass as it's a system that obviously works as they continue to use it to get people through the door.

If this freaks you out what are you gonna be like when you get to the 21 situational judgement questions at the driver assessment centre!? Same sort of thing! Never used to be there but it is now and probably will be for a while!
 
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