Sheffield/Rotherham Tram-Train update

[TC60054]

Does anyone know if the 399s are on set diagrams ?

At the moment they're running adhoc additional services. Think that should change next week though.

 

[High Dyke]

There has been some discussion recently about responsibilities for track maintenance and repairs/maintenance of the OLE on the heavy rail sections. Does anyone know what the agreed method is is.

Also when the unit leaves the light rail section and onto the heavy rail section then does the unit have a second safety critical member of staff on board?

 

[samuel791]

At the moment they're running adhoc additional services. Think that should change next week though.

Still a way off yet. Plenty of gremlins still in the system. However I did actually manage to drive 202 out in service today for a few hours, started off at Sheffield Station on a Blue to Halfway and Malin and then changed into a Yellow from Malin to Meadowhall before returning out of service back to depot.

You will generally only see them at off-peak times (9am-3.30pm) Monday to Friday at the minute. This is due to them not interfering with the peak timetable and the fact that the Staddler guys only work Weekdays usually.

 

[_toommm_]

There's construction at Rotherham Central at the Holmes Chord side with the banking being dug away and concrete slabs being put down - I'm assuming it's for the platforms for the tram train, with the platforms needing to be at Supertram height rather than NR platform height

 

[eastwestdivide]

There's construction at Rotherham Central at the Holmes Chord side with the banking being dug away and concrete slabs being put down - I'm assuming it's for the platforms for the tram train, with the platforms needing to be at Supertram height rather than NR platform height

Yes, they were craning them in on Sunday. And yes, they have to be a different height. I've seen a diagram somewhere that refers to them as platforms 3 and 4.

 

[pemma]

There's construction at Rotherham Central at the Holmes Chord side with the banking being dug away and concrete slabs being put down - I'm assuming it's for the platforms for the tram train, with the platforms needing to be at Supertram height rather than NR platform height

The difference in platform heights is one of the reasons the proposal for a Huddersfield-Sheffield tram-train service didn't go ahead, especially as it was supposed to be a trial scheme which could be changed back to an ordinary train if it was unsuccessful.

A tram-train scheme in the Manchester area wouldn't have that issue as the new Metrolink platforms were built to the BR standard to match the platforms already existing on lines converted.

 

[Greybeard33]

The difference in platform heights is one of the reasons the proposal for a Huddersfield-Sheffield tram-train service didn't go ahead, especially as it was supposed to be a trial scheme which could be changed back to an ordinary train if it was unsuccessful.

A tram-train scheme in the Manchester area wouldn't have that issue as the new Metrolink platforms were built to the BR standard to match the platforms already existing on lines converted.

In order to provide level boarding with a minimal gap, Manchester Metrolink platforms have been modified from the BR standard. They are slightly higher and extend horizontally closer to the track. So they do not conform to the RSSB lower sector structure gauge. When heavy rail engineering trains venture on to Metrolink tracks, they have to go dead slow through the stations so as not to foul the platforms.

A Manchester high floor tram-train would likely need automatic extending ramps to bridge the gap to a Network Rail platform.

 

[edwin_m]

A Manchester high floor tram-train would likely need automatic extending ramps to bridge the gap to a Network Rail platform.

Yes it would, or perhaps more likely an extending step that would fill part of the gap but not touch the platform. I think the Rotherham ones have to have this too.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Manchester Metrolink, with the high floors, would probably be a simpler environment for a tram-trains, but the majority of tram systems are low floor so a Manchester scheme wouldn't establish the best practice for future applications. It's easy to moan about the cost of the Rotherham scheme but the first step is always the hardest in any application. When Roger Bannister ran the first sub-4 minute mile, within weeks runners were breaking that barrier everywhere.

 

[_toommm_]

So how is it going to interchange at meadowhall? Will m/hall South be the last stop before Rotherham? If so there's going to be a lot of confused passengers staying on thinking it's going to the interchange

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So how is it going to interchange at meadowhall? Will m/hall South be the last stop before Rotherham? If so there's going to be a lot of confused passengers staying on thinking it's going to the interchange

I don't think you're giving the folk of the Steel City much credit there... The trams for Rotherham Parkgate will say Rotherham Parkgate on the front!

(Okay, there may be some initial confusion as people get used to there being a second route which won't serve the interchange.)

 

[_toommm_]

I don't think you're giving the folk of the Steel City much credit there... The trams for Rotherham Parkgate will say Rotherham Parkgate on the front!

(Okay, there may be some initial confusion as people get used to there being a second route which won't serve the interchange.)

I've lived in South Yorkshire all my life. The amount of people I've seen trying to go to meadowhall at 5.30pm on a Sunday, then getting iffy with tram conductors is absurd

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've lived in South Yorkshire all my life. The amount of people I've seen trying to go to meadowhall at 5.30pm on a Sunday, then getting iffy with tram conductors is absurd

Seems I was giving them too much credit then! Oops!

 

[Harpers Tate]

The amount of people I've seen trying to go to meadowhall at 5.30pm on a Sunday, then getting iffy with tram conductors is absurd

Possibly I'm missing something subtle, or being dumb. Trams run to Meadowhall on Sunday every 20 minutes until late evening, and there are food and cinema offerings in the centre open until late. And a park & ride site. And connections with trains and buses.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Possibly I'm missing something subtle, or being dumb. Trams run to Meadowhall on Sunday every 20 minutes until late evening, and there are food and cinema offerings in the centre open until late. And a park & ride site. And connections with trains and buses.

Unless the operations have changed, one of the routes runs to Meadowhall during Monday to Saturday daytimes (I forget which) but terminates in the city centre on evenings and Sundays. I imagine it's this route which ends up with a minority of knuckle-draggers having a go at staff. It could be that a further variation will further confuse those less well-balanced Steelies!

For the cinema, particularly when the main mall is closed, Meadowhall South stop should be used. This stop will be served by the Parkgate tram-trains anyway so the only issue will be those heading to the interchange for onward train/bus/coach travel. They may just have to pay a bit more attention to what the tram says on the front!

 

[edwin_m]

An automated announcement approaching Meadowhall South "Passengers for Meadowhall please change here" ought to do the trick.

 

[Harpers Tate]

For the entire part of the route between Hillsborough and Fitzalan Square, trams are going to two different destinations in each direction. For the entire part of the route between Cathedral and Gleadless Townend, trams are going to two destinations in one direction and are either stopping short or going two ways in the other. For the three stations in the city centre, there are two destinations in each direction.

All of these services have automated announcements on board and clear destination detail outside.

The new service will see stations between Cathedral and Meadowhall South going to two destinations.

 

[TC60054]

Now on regular timetabled service, 205 and 207 doing the honours on the purple (Cathedral - Herdings) route today.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Now on regular timetabled service, 205 and 207 doing the honours on the purple (Cathedral - Herdings) route today.

Are there still extremities of the network which are off-limits to the 399s? Or was that initial plan revised as track replacement progressed?

 

[Harpers Tate]

Two different wheel profiles; 100% tram (can go anywhere) and tram-train (can go only on replaced/revised tram track, and on heavy rail). Wheels can be interchanged between vehicles that are otherwise identical.

7 vehicles; in normal operation, three required for Rotherham/Parkgate; three more were ordered for addition to core fleet; one spare.

 

[TC60054]

Are there still extremities of the network which are off-limits to the 399s? Or was that initial plan revised as track replacement progressed?

It was just Herdings which was off limits to them as the track up there was in a poor condition - they've recently repacked, reballasted and tamped it to allow them to go up there.

 

[tbtc]

The Purple route trams used to run through to Meadowhall during Monday - Saturday daytimes (as well as the current evening/ Sunday provision).

This stopped when tram reliability became a problem (presumably around the time of the Shalesmoor shunt, but I'm not certain).

Does anyone know if the plan is to extend these to Meadowhall during the daytimes again, now that we have a couple of extra trams to play with?

Or do we have to wait until they are all in service and then have some major recast of services? (whilst there's been a lot said about the Parkgate service, there's precious little I've seen about the changes to the existing routes, other than some detail-free stuff about reallocating resources to where they are most needed).

 

[samuel791]

There is no planned reintroduction of the Purple service to Meadowhall during the daytime Monday-Saturday. They only used to get in the way and cause hold ups to the Blue/Yellow at Cathedral anyway - and still remain a pain in the rear end now!

Tram-Train which will become the Red service will take priority over all other routes at Cathedral, as if it doesn't make its allocated slot at Tinsley, York ROC can and probably will refuse entry onto their network. This is why the timetable will have a 3 minute buffer to cater for any delays between Cathedral and Tinsley.

The timetable will be changed in January (new duties and rotas from 7th January), although this needs to be seen/voted in by union members and will be subject to change. The main changes are increased running time, namely Cathedral to Shalesmoor +1 min, Shalesmoor to Hillsborough +2 mins and Hillsborough to Middlewood +1 min, along with increased stack time at terminus to ensure ample recovery time due to congestion.

 

[Starmill]

Are they still generally only running Monday - Friday? I see someone mentioned one on a Sunday, but was that just the one-off?

 

[TC60054]

Are they still generally only running Monday - Friday? I see someone mentioned one on a Sunday, but was that just the one-off?

202 was out on Saturday, however believe it was the only one out. Not sure about Sundays yet though.

 

[37038]

205 206 out today. 207 on driver training.

Not sure if that's it, just what I viewed in the city centre this morning.

 

[D365]

I've seen 399s out at the weekend, but as above, for driver training.

 

[Mordac]

Has anyone been keeping track of which ones have seen service yet?

 

[37038]

I've had 202 205 206 207 for haulage.

Haven't seen any of the other 3 in service or mentioned elsewhere

 

[Mordac]

I've had 202 205 206 207 for haulage.

Haven't seen any of the other 3 in service or mentioned elsewhere

Thanks mate. Wonder if the other ones have the heavy rail compatible bogies on them?