Sheffield Tram-Train

[ALEMASTER]

There should be an announcent from the DfT soon as to whether this scheme is to go ahead.

It will see a new light rail service from Sheffield to Rotherham Parkgate operating every 20 minutes.

In Sheffield the service will start from the Cathedral tram stop, operate on Supertram infrastructure as far as Carbrook then cross over onto Network Rail metals and call at a new platform at Meadowhall South/Tinsley next to the existing tram stop, before continuing to Rotherham Central station where there will be a lowered platform extension and finally then branching off the Network Rail line by Parkgate Retail World onto a small spur with a terminus platform.

 

[newbie babs]

Do you know when will the announcement be made

Sounds interesting but I have to question why ??

Trade in Sheffield is not fantastic so why open up the possibility of shopping somewhere else and decrease the small trade Sheffield has.

 

[ALEMASTER]

It is to trial the concept of tram-train, which is already done on the continent and the DfT would like to see how it could work here and whether it could be a lower cost way of creating new rail services.

Additionally it will expand the Supertram network plus increase the frequency between Sheffield Centre and Meadowhall South, providing extra capacity at busy times.

Finally it provides more services between Rotherham Central and Sheffield beyond the current Northern Rail provision, where capacity is limited by the single track Holmes Chord.

The scheme will require a new crossover at Meadowhall South/Tinsley, electrification of the Network Rail line between Tinsley and Parkgate. construction of the spur at Parkgate, platform extention at Rotherham Central and 4 new tram-train vehicles (3 to operate the service plus a maintanance spare).

End to end journey time Cathedral-Parkgate should be 20-25 mins.

There could potentially be a park & ride facility at Parkgate as well as the existing one at Nunnery Square, to cater for commuters travelling to both Rotherham and Sheffield from nearby.

 

[ChrisCooper]

There should be an announcent from the DfT soon as to whether this scheme is to go ahead.

It will see a new light rail service from Sheffield to Rotherham Parkgate operating every 20 minutes.

In Sheffield the service will start from the Cathedral tram stop, operate on Supertram infrastructure as far as Carbrook then cross over onto Network Rail metals and call at a new platform at Meadowhall South/Tinsley next to the existing tram stop, before continuing to Rotherham Central station where there will be a lowered platform extension and finally then branching off the Network Rail line by Parkgate Retail World onto a small spur with a terminus platform.

Not really sure of the point of this is, surely extending the trams would be better. Surely they would need to be bi-mode so able to run off 750v on the tram network. Having diesel powered rail vehicles running under the wires in the city seems a backwards step. Even bi-mode they would be heavy, especially to fit with mainline crashworthyness requirements, and with engines and fuel tanks. Doesn't seem such a cheap option if they are battering the lightweight tram tracks to pieces, and if bi mode, needing the power supply upgrading. Would still need a fair amount of infrastucture such as the link line, lowered platform and the spur. Alternative would be a single track tram line alongside the existing single track freight line, and single the loop line too from the junction. Could probably put a passing loop in if required, but considering the fairly short journey over the section I'm sure they could run single line at reasonable frequency. Nottingham manages fine sharing the formation with the Robin Hood line, including single track sections on both.
Another thing to watch out with tram trains, they start running to Rotherham, before long they're going up to Leeds. Pacer 2.

Ah I see now they are going to electrify. Surely if they do that it's cheaper to just go for trams, not tram-trains. Only reason they will be tram trains is because they will be to mainline crashworthyness standards and therefore heavier and more expensive. Oh and they will need AWS, TPWS, OTMR and more driver training. Surely a segregated system would be better?

 

[WatcherZero]

It will be sharing the freight line so will be interaction but the main area of study is the performance of a tram-trains wheel-track interface, especielly with heavy rail points. Theres concern trams smaller wheels might be derailed by the larger gaps in the running rails.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Not really sure of the point of this is, surely extending the trams would be better. Surely they would need to be bi-mode so able to run off 750v on the tram network. Having diesel powered rail vehicles running under the wires in the city seems a backwards step. Even bi-mode they would be heavy, especially to fit with mainline crashworthyness requirements, and with engines and fuel tanks. Doesn't seem such a cheap option if they are battering the lightweight tram tracks to pieces, and if bi mode, needing the power supply upgrading. Would still need a fair amount of infrastucture such as the link line, lowered platform and the spur. Alternative would be a single track tram line alongside the existing single track freight line, and single the loop line too from the junction. Could probably put a passing loop in if required, but considering the fairly short journey over the section I'm sure they could run single line at reasonable frequency. Nottingham manages fine sharing the formation with the Robin Hood line, including single track sections on both.
Another thing to watch out with tram trains, they start running to Rotherham, before long they're going up to Leeds. Pacer 2.

Ah I see now they are going to electrify. Surely if they do that it's cheaper to just go for trams, not tram-trains. Only reason they will be tram trains is because they will be to mainline crashworthyness standards and therefore heavier and more expensive. Oh and they will need AWS, TPWS, OTMR and more driver training. Surely a segregated system would be better?

I agree that it would be great to have rotheram and parkgate on the tram network forming a south yorkshire tram rather than a sheffield one. But that would cost a fortune, i think this is a cheaper way of getting rotherm and parkgate on tram map, and also cheap as government will give grants to help it as it is a trial.

As others have mentioned, rotheram central is limited by single track holmes chord, and this is an option to try and get rotherm central into a much better used transport hub. I see it a good, not perfect, way of improving south yorkshires frankly woeful public transport network.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Don't forget that there other tram-train schemes who will be anxiously awaiting the performance news from this "trial" system.

 

[37372]

I'm not a fan of this, I agree with what newbie babs is saying.

Yes the Holmes Chord is a major problem when it comes to linking Rotherham with Sheffield but there are 3 tph and, despite the fact I don't like buses, I'm sure there are a fair few buses going between Rotherham and Meadowhall too.
Apart from Magna there isn't much else along the freight line that they are planning to use to it won't exactly serve much other than Rotherham town centre itself.

 

[bladesman123]

The DfT are just going to say no anyway, plus there is this new Bus Rapid Transit thingy being introduced.

http://www.sy-busrapidtransit.co.uk/

 

[tbtc]

There's a Yellow Line tram from the Cathedral to Carbrook (and Meadowhall South/Tinsley and Meadowhall) every ten minutes.

There's a Purple Line tram from the Cathedral to Carbrook (and Meadowhall South/Tinsley and Meadowhall) every half hour (as well as eight other tram services an hour from the Cathedral to the bridge at Park Square).

There are three trains an hour from Sheffield to Rotherham at xx.14, xx.24 and xx.53 (returning at xx.27, xx.44 and xx.52 (as well as a couple of York services and plenty freight through Rotherham).

Now, how on earth do you schedule a twenty minute tram-train amongst all of these?

It would be much easier, operationally, if this were part of Supertram, so that it could be integrated into a (recast) timetable (meaning through Parkgate services to/from Hillsborough etc).

 

[SuperOwl86]

I think they will redo the routes if this does go ahead, I would think they will stop the purples to Meadowhall.

Its all a case of wait and see i Guess though.

What I am surprised about is if this and BRT North get the go ahead with it being along the same corridor, Would have been nice to see the BRT route via parkway.

 

[142094]

The DfT are just going to say no anyway, plus there is this new Bus Rapid Transit thingy being introduced.

http://www.sy-busrapidtransit.co.uk/

Exactly - if you're going to plan a trial of a tram-train why do it on basically the same route as a new, fast bus service.

 

[ALEMASTER]

It is not intended for the BRT and Tram-Train to serve the same markets, the BRT is all about serving the developing employment hotspots around Tinsley rather than end to end journeys.

 

[MK Tom]

I've been looking all over for an update about this and I can't even find anything on the forum about it. Has there been any news? Is it going ahead? Thanks!

 

[pemma]

Any tram-train projects are on hold until the success of the Sheffield tram-train trial is known.

However, Rochdale-Oldham-Manchester is not a tram-train proposal but an extension of the Metrolink Oldham line for normal trams and would run alongside heavy rail between Rochdale and Manchester, a bit like Altrincham-Manchester but unlike Altrincham-Manchester, Rochdale-Manchester will be much quicker by train than by tram.

 

[MK Tom]

I'm so sorry! I meant Rotherham! Is there anyone with the ability to change the thread title?

 

[pemma]

I'm so sorry! I meant Rotherham! Is there anyone with the ability to change the thread title?

You can do it yourself. Go to edit your thread then click the 'Go Advanced' button.

There has been a tender issue for 4 tram-trains for Rotherham-Sheffield and Vossloh have been announced as the preferred bidder. I think they are supposed to be delivered in 2013.

I don't know about infrastructure works though e.g. the short stretch of electrification and platform lowering.

 

[MK Tom]

Wouldn't Rotherham Central have to have platforms at both heights? Unless they're planning to discontinue its services towards Swinton?

 

[Eagle]

Unless they're planning to discontinue its services towards Swinton?

Or rebuild Masborough...

 

[pemma]

Wouldn't Rotherham Central have to have platforms at both heights? Unless they're planning to discontinue its services towards Swinton?

Likely it will have part of it's existing platforms lowered but that will probably mean anything longer than a 3 car DMU calling there would have to use local door operation only.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The platforms at Rotherham Central appear to have been lengthened slightly (or possibly just rebuilt somewhat) during the ongoing rebuilding of the station, although the full length is not yet in use.
Anyway, there's been plenty of work going on there, but there's no sign of different heights though.
Does anyone have useful links to any specs/detailed plans for the scheme or for the trams?

 

[YorkshireBear]

It is still going, its further than media seem to have us believe. Trams are close to being ordered or have been(?) not entirely sure. I haven't had any thoughts on what they are doing at rotheram central but at parkgate it is just a single spurr off mainline to tram stop behind the shopping outlet.

Also i believe that the standard sheffield tram electrification will just be extended as there are no current proposals for 25KV AC for rotheram loop. Will try and get a reply as soon as possible.

 

[WatcherZero]

Last I heard they were building low platforms at Rothertham Central and a new platform on a spur at 'Eastwood Footbridge' though the spur may not happen on lack of available space grounds.

 

[HSTEd]

Also i believe that the standard sheffield tram electrification will just be extended as there are no current proposals for 25KV AC for rotheram loop. Will try and get a reply as soon as possible.

Well that is a little odd IMO, since isn't this is primarily intended as a test bed for other projects, one would assume they would use 25kV AC since many other projects in other places would be using it.

And then therei s the possibility that they might want 25kV on that loop at some point in the future.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Well that is a little odd IMO, since isn't this is primarily intended as a test bed for other projects, one would assume they would use 25kV AC since many other projects in other places would be using it.

And then therei s the possibility that they might want 25kV on that loop at some point in the future.

25KV AC for rotheram loop would most likely not come until after MML which lets face it is a while away. So your looking at 2025 earliest. 10 years min away.

And i am aware of some form of catenery which can be dual voltage which is used on the continent. Im certain i havent dreamt this and again will try find some info when i have the time.

 

[bladesman123]

Info from "Northern" south yorks transport forum user

"1) The route has now being formally chosen, and the service will operate from Cathedral to Parkgate, calling at all stops between Cathedral and Meadowhall South on the Supertram network, with two additional stops at Rotherham Central and Parkgate. There will be no stop at MAGNA, due to this being built directly on Network Rail land and also the need for a footbridge over the tracks, as Network Rail wont permit passenger level crossings on their main line network.

2) The new station at Parkgate has been chosen to be built at the side of the 'Eastwood Footbridge' with the enhancement of this bridge to become DDA compliant. This is also the main thoroughfare between Eastwood and Parkgate Shopping, so will open up the service to local residents from the Eastwood area. Due to land constraints, there may be no spur on this section of route, though this is still to be progressed.

3) The network will now be operated by Stagecoach Supertram as part of their current contract until March 2024, rather than Northern Rail. This means that all Supertram tickets will be accepted, and use of National Rail or Northern Rail tickets will not be permitted for use on the Tram-Trains service.

4) The vehicles will be stored at the Nunnery Square depot in Attercliffe, and following the announcement of 4 additional trams for the Supertram network, this will now be incorporated with the 5 vehicles required for use on the Tram-Trains service. However due to the combined nature of the routes, only 7 vehicles in total will be purchased now (if both schemes progress ahead as planned), therefore limiting the additional resources to work on 3 unit types, as opposed to 2 unit types.

5) The frequency will be every 20 minutes between Cathedral and Parkgate, 7 days a week. A detailed timetable would be completed closer to the time, and would not only have to take into account other Supertram workings, but also freight and passenger service workings on the Tinsley line.

6) Due to the 7 new vehicles having to work on both the Supertram and Tram-Trains service, they will be enhanced to ensure operational availability on both networks. The Tram-Train vehicles will be able to work on the entire network, although conventional Supertram vehicles will be restricted to the current network. This is all related to the wheels of the units and the heavy rail line between Tinsley and Parkgate believe it or not.

7) The total cost will be in the region of £55 million, and therefore the scheme will become a permanent fixture and extension to the Supertram network. The trial will progress for 2 years. It is expected from the outset that the trial will be a roaring success and could then be extended further in South Yorkshire (into the Dearne Valley for instance, or out to Dore/Totley) and elsewhere within the U.K.


The project includes a connection between Sheffield's Supertram network and a Network Rail freight line which will be electrified at 750 V DC. There will be an initial 20 min headway service to Parkgate in Rotherham, where the tram stop will be integrated with a brown field development.

To further update on the scheme, Vosslah has being chosen as the vehicle manufacturer for the 7 new vehicles. The tram-trains scheme and the combination of the Supertram vehicles and tram-train vehicles also has support from the Department for Transport and is just waiting for the treasury to sign it off. this should be done in March."

 

[MK Tom]

That's brilliant, thanks for that! Will the line be electrified through to Parkgate or are we talking bi-mode tram-trains?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Info from "Northern" south yorks transport forum user

"1) The route has now being formally chosen, and the service will operate from Cathedral to Parkgate, calling at all stops between Cathedral and Meadowhall South on the Supertram network, with two additional stops at Rotherham Central and Parkgate. There will be no stop at MAGNA, due to this being built directly on Network Rail land and also the need for a footbridge over the tracks, as Network Rail wont permit passenger level crossings on their main line network.

2) The new station at Parkgate has been chosen to be built at the side of the 'Eastwood Footbridge' with the enhancement of this bridge to become DDA compliant. This is also the main thoroughfare between Eastwood and Parkgate Shopping, so will open up the service to local residents from the Eastwood area. Due to land constraints, there may be no spur on this section of route, though this is still to be progressed.

3) The network will now be operated by Stagecoach Supertram as part of their current contract until March 2024, rather than Northern Rail. This means that all Supertram tickets will be accepted, and use of National Rail or Northern Rail tickets will not be permitted for use on the Tram-Trains service.

4) The vehicles will be stored at the Nunnery Square depot in Attercliffe, and following the announcement of 4 additional trams for the Supertram network, this will now be incorporated with the 5 vehicles required for use on the Tram-Trains service. However due to the combined nature of the routes, only 7 vehicles in total will be purchased now (if both schemes progress ahead as planned), therefore limiting the additional resources to work on 3 unit types, as opposed to 2 unit types.

5) The frequency will be every 20 minutes between Cathedral and Parkgate, 7 days a week. A detailed timetable would be completed closer to the time, and would not only have to take into account other Supertram workings, but also freight and passenger service workings on the Tinsley line.

6) Due to the 7 new vehicles having to work on both the Supertram and Tram-Trains service, they will be enhanced to ensure operational availability on both networks. The Tram-Train vehicles will be able to work on the entire network, although conventional Supertram vehicles will be restricted to the current network. This is all related to the wheels of the units and the heavy rail line between Tinsley and Parkgate believe it or not.

7) The total cost will be in the region of £55 million, and therefore the scheme will become a permanent fixture and extension to the Supertram network. The trial will progress for 2 years. It is expected from the outset that the trial will be a roaring success and could then be extended further in South Yorkshire (into the Dearne Valley for instance, or out to Dore/Totley) and elsewhere within the U.K.


The project includes a connection between Sheffield's Supertram network and a Network Rail freight line which will be electrified at 750 V DC. There will be an initial 20 min headway service to Parkgate in Rotherham, where the tram stop will be integrated with a brown field development.

To further update on the scheme, Vosslah has being chosen as the vehicle manufacturer for the 7 new vehicles. The tram-trains scheme and the combination of the Supertram vehicles and tram-train vehicles also has support from the Department for Transport and is just waiting for the treasury to sign it off. this should be done in March."

Well i think that is pretty much what i would of found out so wont bother, thanks very much for that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's brilliant, thanks for that! Will the line be electrified through to Parkgate or are we talking bi-mode tram-trains?

Read the bottom part after the numbering. It will be electrified at 750V DC.

 

[MK Tom]

Well i think that is pretty much what i would of found out so wont bother, thanks very much for that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Read the bottom part after the numbering. It will be electrified at 750V DC.

Yeah it says the connection not the whole line?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yeah it says the connection not the whole line?

Ah i see, i read it as a connection between ... and a network rail freight line which will be electrified to 750V DC.

As in the 'which' referring to the freight line not the connection. See where the confusion is now. i hope that i am correct in my interpretation simply cos i dont think bi mode would be a great idea, extra weight wont help the street lines.