Should the Concessionary Fares Scheme be 24/7?

[Martin1988]

I understand Cornwall Council allow the use of Concessionary passes at any time of the day and not just during specific times and obviously I'm aware that in Wales and Scotland Concessionary passes are valid 24/7

Do you think British Concessionary passes should be required to be valid for travel at all times or do you think 24/7 free travel should continue to be discretionary?

 

[Samuel88]

I understand Cornwall Council allow the use of Concessionary passes at any time of the day and not just during specific times and obviously I'm aware that in Wales and Scotland Concessionary passes are valid 24/7

Do you think British Concessionary passes should be required to be valid for travel at all times or do you think 24/7 free travel should continue to be discretionary?

Who will pay for it? Most councils can't afford the current scheme as it is, let alone extending it to 24hrs.

 

[Martin1988]

I do agree with you there. I can't help but wonder however if had councils not been so strapped for cash and/or if a different political party had been in power, whether money would have been made available to offer the scheme 24/7?

Has it ever been explained why Cornwall Council managed to find the money to offer the scheme 24/7?

 

[Tetchytyke]

No. It's bad enough as it is in the evening peak with buses full of freebies and no seats for paying customers.

I imagine Cornwall made their decision because much of the county has an irregular bus service. That makes sense.

 

[takno]

I do agree with you there. I can't help but wonder had councils not been so strapped for cash and/or if a different political party had been in power, whether money would have been made available to offer the scheme 24/7?

Has it ever been explained why Cornwall Council managed to find the money to offer the scheme 24/7?

The costs in different areas will vary significantly. Cornwall are likely to have far fewer people using the buses to commute than would be the case in urban areas, and may have found that the restrictions were more trouble than they were worth. Alternatively bus usage on their rather limited network may be so low that none of the costs incurred are particularly high. Finally the buses in some areas may be so infrequent that only a peak time service is available.

 

[overthewater]

Scotland isnt 24 hours. Passes are not vaild from 1am until 4am.

Only buses at that time is airport runs really.

 

[Samuel88]

Scotland isnt 24 hours. Passes are not vaild from 1am until 4am.

Only buses at that time is airport runs really.

Lothian buses run the most comprehensive night bus network outside London...

 

[overthewater]

And whats that got to do with the price of cheese?

 

[Samuel88]

And whats that got to do with the price of cheese?

You stated that the only night buses in Scotland were 'Airport runs', I've replied telling you you're wrong! Perhaps read over your posts before submitting them as often they are full of spelling mistakes to make them hardly readable.

 

[Ianno87]

Relaxation of the start from 0930 to 0900 might not be unreasonable if it helps manage the 0930 pensioner bow-wave of demand.

 

[Robertj21a]

Relaxation of the start from 0930 to 0900 might not be unreasonable if it helps manage the 0930 pensioner bow-wave of demand.

That just moves it from 09.30 to 09.00. Many 'oldies' get up early and want to be out asap.

 

[overthewater]

You stated that the only night buses in Scotland were 'Airport runs', I've replied telling you you're wrong! Perhaps read over your posts before submitting them as often they are full of spelling mistakes to make them hardly readable.

Rude and condersending.

You just assumed. I never denied that fact, i just said at that time really. Ie 99% of people dont have night buses in the uk. Were talking about the UK in this thread.

The Scotland section was in response to martin2012. I even included sentence break. To make it clear.

The second part, I responded to the context of the original persons post. Passes are not vaild on night buses because there priemium service. So even if the passes were made 24 a day there were still not be vaild.

You can travel at 4am on most normal bus services but still not the night buses.

 

[geoffk]

Morning peak hour buses are required for folks going to work and most pass-holders are retired. Exceptions could be made for anyone with an early hospital appointment. I write as an ENCTS pass-holder myself!

 

[takno]

That just moves it from 09.30 to 09.00. Many 'oldies' get up early and want to be out asap.

God I used to hate getting a twirlies to work for a 10am start. Every single stop there would be a pensioner who had apparently never heard of a watch flagging the bus down to ask if it was too early. Are they still as awful?

 

[Typhoon]

Morning peak hour buses are required for folks going to work and most pass-holders are retired. Exceptions could be made for anyone with an early hospital appointment. I write as an ENCTS pass-holder myself!

Exactly right. When I go out early (and pay), buses on some routes are pretty packed between 07:30 and 09:00. If pass-holders were on they would either leave paying passengers behind or have to put on more buses which would be idle for most of the day. Afternoon peaks aren't as bad as school kids and commuters travel at different times.

Some operators allow discounted travel at some times before 09:30, presumably because usage on that route or time is light. That's fine. To be honest I think the fight will be to keep it as it is, not extend it.

 

[Samuel88]

Exactly right. When I go out early (and pay), buses on some routes are pretty packed between 07:30 and 09:00. If pass-holders were on they would either leave paying passengers behind or have to put on more buses which would be idle for most of the day. Afternoon peaks aren't as bad as school kids and commuters travel at different times.

Some operators allow discounted travel at some times before 09:30, presumably because usage on that route or time is light. That's fine. To be honest I think the fight will be to keep it as it is, not extend it.

I think ENCTS is safe, no government (especially of the blue kind) will annoy their biggest voters!

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I often think the 930am should be shifted to 9am and more use made of vehicles coming off of school runs to provide extra journeys around 9am to transport the pass brigade.

 

[Typhoon]

I think ENCTS is safe, no government (especially of the blue kind) will annoy their biggest voters!

You have more confidence in certain# politicians to act sensibly than I have. An awful lot of promises have been made. They have to be paid for somehow. And some of those were pretty stupid ('tax cuts for the better off', 'review of foxhunting') - that's before they are in office. It didn't stop Theresa May promising a 'Dementia Tax' before the last election, did no-one tell her that you make such statements after the election? There are too many leading politicians that I wouldn't trust to bung the responsibility on to local authorities. giving them a pittance of money to pay for it a la TV licence and multi-job George.

# - there are quite a few hard working, sensible, thoughtful politicians. Mainly to be found on the back benches.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I often think the 930am should be shifted to 9am and more use made of vehicles coming off of school runs to provide extra journeys around 9am to transport the pass brigade.

Why not shift it the other way, to 10am or even 1030am...

 

[PeterC]

Why not shift it the other way, to 10am or even 1030am...

So by the time the old biddies get to the shops it will be time to go home for lunch.

In urban areas 9:30 is about right, in small towns and in the country 9 fits shopping patterns better.

Contrary to urban myth most ENCTS users are making proper journeys to the shops, doctors etc, not just riding around all day for the sake of it.

 

[CD]

I do agree with you there. I can't help but wonder however if had councils not been so strapped for cash and/or if a different political party had been in power, whether money would have been made available to offer the scheme 24/7?

Has it ever been explained why Cornwall Council managed to find the money to offer the scheme 24/7?

Cornwall CC gets pots of money from the EU, for how much longer we will see.
On Buses of Somerset EYCTS passholders can buy a single to anywhere on Mondays to Fridays on any service before 0930 for £2.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Why not shift it the other way, to 10am or even 1030am...

Because on my argument schools start before 9am so having buses running for pensioners at 9am makes sense as bus not sat around doing nothing. I often see buses sat in termini at just after 9am waiting their first journey of the day at 930am!

 

[Busaholic]

Cornwall CC gets pots of money from the EU, for how much longer we will see.
On Buses of Somerset EYCTS passholders can buy a single to anywhere on Mondays to Fridays on any service before 0930 for £2.

This is the same Cornwall CC that, back in 2013 and under Tory 'administration', were asking pensioners not to use their passes but pay the full fare instead. A reminder here that wages in Cornwall are the lowest in England, so vast pension pots are in the main confined to a few of the minority who choose to retire here. Of those I know or know of in this category most would not be seen dead on a bus, the exception being Truro P&R which has no concessions anyway!

 

[Deerfold]

I understand Cornwall Council allow the use of Concessionary passes at any time of the day and not just during specific times and obviously I'm aware that in Wales and Scotland Concessionary passes are valid 24/7

Do you think British Concessionary passes should be required to be valid for travel at all times or do you think 24/7 free travel should continue to be discretionary?

Do you mean English Concessionary passes?

So by the time the old biddies get to the shops it will be time to go home for lunch.

In urban areas 9:30 is about right, in small towns and in the country 9 fits shopping patterns better.

Contrary to urban myth most ENCTS users are making proper journeys to the shops, doctors etc, not just riding around all day for the sake of it.

I have the delight, on occasion to catch a bus at around 0925 past my house into town. Because it's before 0930 I have to pay a premium for a day ticket. However, most of the passengers on it are using ENTCS passes. Although the time limit is 0930 where I live, they board in North Yorkshire where the time limit is 0900.

Despite having 7 buses an hour there's around 20 minutes until the next bus - which is then full of ENTCS pass holders catching the first bus after 0930.

 

[robk23oxf]

In some places the concessionary passes are valid from 09:00 and it doesn't spread the first 'peak' in demand from pass holders. Inevitably there will still be those at the bus stop at 08:50 trying to blag their way onto a bus for free. Actually I've been shouted at a couple of times by elderly passengers for declining passes and asking for payment well before 09:00/09:30 and been given the old 'I've paid my taxes all my life so I should get on for free' routine, the earliest being at 06:55!

There's no easy solution to this, take the passes away and there will be uproar but the current system is woefully underfunded. Would charging a small fee of 50p-£1 per journey when producing a pass be a practical solution which still keeps the elderly and infirm mobile while easing the burden on the taxpayer?

 

[freetoview33]

I've been on buses before that have been scheduled at a stop at 09.31 but it turned up at 09.28. That's when you get the arguements!

 

[takno]

In some places the concessionary passes are valid from 09:00 and it doesn't spread the first 'peak' in demand from pass holders. Inevitably there will still be those at the bus stop at 08:50 trying to blag their way onto a bus for free. Actually I've been shouted at a couple of times by elderly passengers for declining passes and asking for payment well before 09:00/09:30 and been given the old 'I've paid my taxes all my life so I should get on for free' routine, the earliest being at 06:55!

There's no easy solution to this, take the passes away and there will be uproar but the current system is woefully underfunded. Would charging a small fee of 50p-£1 per journey when producing a pass be a practical solution which still keeps the elderly and infirm mobile while easing the burden on the taxpayer?

To be honest a "nominal" charge is the worst of all possible worlds. There are plenty of people who wouldn't think anything of coughing up £1 a journey all day to make pointless journeys, and there are other people for whom doing that for a return journey 2 or 3 times a week would be a real issue

 

[robk23oxf]

I've been on buses before that have been scheduled at a stop at 09.31 but it turned up at 09.28. That's when you get the arguements!

If it's scheduled at 09:31 then the pass is valid even if the bus arrives early. Ticket machines are normally programmed to accept the passes a couple of minutes early for scenarios like this.

 

[methethpropbut]

I've been on buses before that have been scheduled at a stop at 09.31 but it turned up at 09.28. That's when you get the arguements!

Just gotta argue for 2 min then

 

[Samuel88]

How about a compromise? Allow 24 hour travel to Disabled persons who are in, or looking for work. In fact I would go further and allow free national rail travel for this group as people with disabilities are woefully underrepresented in the workplace.