Should we introduce a 3rd class?

[90019]

Negative things about 3rd class:

-We're not animals

We are


I wonder how difficult it would be to wire up a couple of old cattle wagons with auto couplers then if running more that 2 trains together, sandwich them in between them

 

[Railjet]

I was on a "three-class" train about two weeks ago - a rush-hour LM train from London to Birmingham, formed of 12 coaches (3 x 350s). As the guard kept helpfully reminding the passengers: "the carriages with the blue seats will go forward to Birmingham, the carriages with the green seats will terminate at Northampton".

 

[T163R]

5th class: in the engine

 

[junglejames]

The pacer is one of the most disgusting, horrible, vile, uncomfortable, loud trains in existence, and it vibrates a lot too! Can you imagine travelling on a pacer to London?

What have you got against Pendolinos/Voyagers! I've travelled from Glasgow to Crewe comfortably on a Super Voyager in Standard Class. I was sitting in a "Priority Seat", there was plenty of legroom, and it was a very smooth (and quiet!) journey. (It only cost £1.50 too!)

no i cant imagine travelling to London on a pacer, but i cant imagine doing it on a voyager or pendy either. Standard class on a pendy and voyager is extremely uncomfortable and cramped (ok legroom is usually good, but thats it). A pacer offers me more comfortable seats, and more space (except for legroom).

As mentioned before, ive done 3hrs on a pacer before, with no problems. More than 90mins on a pendy or voyager, and my back and backside are starting to ache, and the lack of space is getting annoying.

 

[WestCoast]

I suspect that if you find the the model of seating used on pendolinos and voyagers that uncomfortable, then you will find seating bad on virtually all modern units, plus East Coast's mallard seating and FGW HST seating.

The bus benches that are used on ex-FNW pacers are not designed for long periods, so are not supportive for correct posture on long journeys.

Whether a seat is comfortable or not may depend on how you sit. Those who tend to slouch will find it less comfortable while those who prefer to maintain an upright position (which is better for your back) will probably find most modern standard class seating adequately comfortable.

 

[HST Power]

5th class: in the engine

To luxurious for 5th class!

 

[pemma]

Whether a seat is comfortable or not may depend on how you sit.

Also it depends how tall you are.

 

[HST Power]

Some seats are taller than others. The seats seem quite big on the FGW HSTs.

 

[junglejames]

I suspect that if you find the the model of seating used on pendolinos and voyagers that uncomfortable, then you will find seating bad on virtually all modern units, plus East Coast's mallard seating and FGW HST seating.

The bus benches that are used on ex-FNW pacers are not designed for long periods, so are not supportive for correct posture on long journeys.

Whether a seat is comfortable or not may depend on how you sit. Those who tend to slouch will find it less comfortable while those who prefer to maintain an upright position (which is better for your back) will probably find most modern standard class seating adequately comfortable.

Well yes admittedly no modern seats come close to the old seats, but im afraid the mallard seats are much much better than pendy seats.
Not as hard, not as upright, better armrests.
FGW HSTs are plainly awful yes. Desiros are plainly awful. 175s and 180s are better as they have a nicer shaped seat. Makes up for the lack of padding (although they still have more)
Bus benches are not as upright, and have more padding than pendy seats. Thats the important thing. I need the padding, and i dont want to be sat bolt upright. My back will complain before long, and i doubt sitting bolt upright is any better for your back than sitting in seats with a normal seat back angle.

 

[All Line Rover]

I suspect that if you find the the model of seating used on pendolinos and voyagers that uncomfortable, then you will find seating bad on virtually all modern units, plus East Coast's mallard seating and FGW HST seating.

The bus benches that are used on ex-FNW pacers are not designed for long periods, so are not supportive for correct posture on long journeys.

Whether a seat is comfortable or not may depend on how you sit. Those who tend to slouch will find it less comfortable while those who prefer to maintain an upright position (which is better for your back) will probably find most modern standard class seating adequately comfortable.

Ah, you see! Upright seats are better for your posture! They'll do wonders to your back in the long run!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well yes admittedly no modern seats come close to the old seats, but im afraid the mallard seats are much much better than pendy seats.
Not as hard, not as upright, better armrests.
FGW HSTs are plainly awful yes. Desiros are plainly awful. 175s and 180s are better as they have a nicer shaped seat. Makes up for the lack of padding (although they still have more)
Bus benches are not as upright, and have more padding than pendy seats. Thats the important thing. I need the padding, and i dont want to be sat bolt upright. My back will complain before long, and i doubt sitting bolt upright is any better for your back than sitting in seats with a normal seat back angle.

Although I don't mind the upright seats (I would point out that the seat "posture" can be adjusted in First Class), I do agree about the padding. There isn't any! Even in First Class! Having absolutely no padding can be somewhat irritating sometimes, especially if you're doing a very long journey - e.g. London to Glasgow. Having no padding makes it difficult to "settle" into a seat.

I agree that the East Coast and First Great Western First Class seats are more comfortable than on a Pendolino. I find the Pendolinos/Voyagers bearable for the moment, but when VT (who I expect to keep the West Coast franchise) refurbish their trains in a couple of years (EMT have done so already!) I hope they'll put new seats with more padding!

 

[alexjames]

I thought we still had third class. Was it not second class that got abolished? I recall being told that by an ancient who remembers pre-nationalisation days.

 

[gordonthemoron]

2nd class was abolished, then third was renamed second, then second was renamed Standard

 

[junglejames]

Ah, you see! Upright seats are better for your posture! They'll do wonders to your back in the long run!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Although I don't mind the upright seats (I would point out that the seat "posture" can be adjusted in First Class), I do agree about the padding. There isn't any! Even in First Class! Having absolutely no padding can be somewhat irritating sometimes, especially if you're doing a very long journey - e.g. London to Glasgow. Having no padding makes it difficult to "settle" into a seat.

I agree that the East Coast and First Great Western First Class seats are more comfortable than on a Pendolino. I find the Pendolinos/Voyagers bearable for the moment, but when VT (who I expect to keep the West Coast franchise) refurbish their trains in a couple of years (EMT have done so already!) I hope they'll put new seats with more padding!

I dont mind first class on a pendy, and would probably do London to Glasgow on one if in first (i definitely wouldnt if in standard (sorry, 10th class!!)).
There is just about enough padding in first, and the much nicer shape of the seat really helps.

I rarely slouch when sitting on trains, but my back needs to be at a nice angle. Bolt upright (as pendys arent far off of) is enough to do me in.

 

[pemma]

2nd class was abolished, then third was renamed second, then second was renamed Standard

Severn Valley Railway in Shropshire offer 1st class and 3rd class: http://www.svr.co.uk/Fares.aspx

What has disappeared is the standarised logos near doors showing 1 for First Class and 2 for Standard class, although they still remain common in Europe: French trains without FC show 2 near every door.

 

[moonrakerz]

Perhaps we should ask Ed Milliband.

Yesterday he travelled by train from London to Coventry. His aides removed the "First Class" head cushion covers before any filming was allowed !!!!

Now, that's what I call a true Socialist

 

[HawkeyeTheNoo]

Slightly off thread but does anyone remember the days when schoolchildren gave up their seats for an adult? and parents used to lift younger children off a seat and on to their laps if an adult needed a seat! Changed days indeed!

 

[GodAtum]

Perhaps we should ask Ed Milliband.

Yesterday he travelled by train from London to Coventry. His aides removed the "First Class" head cushion covers before any filming was allowed !!!!

Now, that's what I call a true Socialist

Do you have a link to the film?

 

[WestCoast]

Perhaps we should ask Ed Milliband.

Yesterday he travelled by train from London to Coventry. His aides removed the "First Class" head cushion covers before any filming was allowed !!!!

Now, that's what I call a true Socialist

Yes, I noticed that. Probably more to do with image, not wanting to seem like he is 'wasting taxpayers money'. In reality, I don't think too many people would have a problem with the leader of any political part traveling first class. I doubt the head rests throughout the carriage were removed though?

There's been a number of interviews on Virgin Pendolinos before - I remember one with Gordon Brown and I think they left the headrests on!

Do you have a link to the film?

On the iPlayer - From 4.50

 

[pemma]

Perhaps we should ask Ed Milliband.

Yesterday he travelled by train from London to Coventry. His aides removed the "First Class" head cushion covers before any filming was allowed !!!!

Milliband went onwards to Manchester later in the day so are we sure the filming was on the London-Coventry journey?

Edit: Looking at it again that looks like a stationary Pendolino that's he on and considering he was in the studio for Granada Reports in Manchester at around 6:15 last night it looks too light outside for when he would have returned to London.

 

[HST Power]

I didn't think Ministers of Parliament could claim on First Class. My MP cannot.
Do they make exceptions for the Party leaders?

 

[moonrakerz]

Milliband went onwards to Manchester later in the day so are we sure the filming was on the London-Coventry journey?

Edit: Looking at it again that looks like a stationary Pendolino that's he on and considering he was in the studio for Granada Reports in Manchester at around 6:15 last night it looks too light outside for when he would have returned to London.

If you Google it there are dozens of hits on this story. Here's one:-

http://notasheepmaybeagoat.blogspot.com/2011/04/ed-first-class-miliband-busted.html

Whatever he was on, it was moving............

When I saw him on the TV news last night I thought something didn't look quite "right" - but couldn't put my finger on it !