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Snow/Ice disruption from 29 Dec onwards

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GB

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I'm afraid I can look back to the time when rail staff all pulled together to run as complete a service as possible in poor (but not unprecedented) weather. For example, in the bitter winter of 1962/3 we visited from Somerset relations in The Wirral, about 1/2 mile from the 3rd rail electric line. Where you got



for months, apparently. So they just ran ecs all night. We could see the arcing lighting up the sky from the house, and were told it was "normal" in winter evenings but now they were running all night (my Somerset mother, incidentally, told us children that it was the Northern Lights in the sky, until corrected ... :) ). Such an operation wasn't even regarded as heroic, it was just sort of expected that they would do so, done on overtime. Not only the train operation, but the signalboxes needed opening as well of course. The next morning, the peak service ran precisely to time. No trains out of action. No need to get the car out, which is what everyone has to do today.

Now we have this wonderful excuse of "Waaaah, we had a problem at Lewisham some years ago, someone got criticised, haven't done anything about it so let's just start shutting things down". Sorry, those of you directly involved, but that's just how it comes across. Have you seen the snow around this morning in outer London? There's hardly enough for a snowball.

Are you suggesting workers are not doing all they can to run some semblance of a service?? I can tell you for a fact there are 100's of people across the network doing just that...driving through challenging conditions to get to problem areas to fix what ever has gone wrong. To suggest otherwise is out of order...but we all know you are blinded by your rose tinted glasses.
 
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30907

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The stations on the Uckfield line are 3-5 miles apart at the most, and most of them are on a main road. I don’t see what’s so special compared to any other line. Indeed being diesel it’s probably less of an issue than some other places.
Not south of Edenbridge: until you get to Crowborough there's only one decent road anywhere near the line, at Eridge
I wonder if the real problem is that the Uckfield line with its single line sections requires five sets of points to have to be functioning correctly and not blocked by snow in order to run a return trip down the branch, and achieving this is a disproportionate use of resources for the numbers of potential passengers, especially as most of these points are all in rural and inaccessible locations.
Think you are right there!
 

williamn

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It does seem odd to me that 3-5cm of snow and temperatures only just below freezing have resulted in very large sections of the network being completely closed with no substitutes provided. The weather is unusual but I wouldn't say extreme.
 

bramling

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I'm afraid I can look back to the time when rail staff all pulled together to run as complete a service as possible in poor (but not unprecedented) weather. For example, in the bitter winter of 1962/3 we visited from Somerset relations in The Wirral, about 1/2 mile from the 3rd rail electric line. Where you got



for months, apparently. So they just ran ecs all night. We could see the arcing lighting up the sky from the house, and were told it was "normal" in winter evenings but now they were running all night (my Somerset mother, incidentally, told us children that it was the Northern Lights in the sky, until corrected ... :) ). Such an operation wasn't even regarded as heroic, it was just sort of expected that they would do so, done on overtime. Not only the train operation, but the signalboxes needed opening as well of course. The next morning, the peak service ran precisely to time. No trains out of action. No need to get the car out, which is what everyone has to do today.

Now we have this wonderful excuse of "Waaaah, we had a problem at Lewisham some years ago, someone got criticised, haven't done anything about it so let's just start shutting things down". Sorry, those of you directly involved, but that's just how it comes across. Have you seen the snow around this morning in outer London? There's hardly enough for a snowball.

My place isn’t paying out to ensure key response duties are covered on overtime. With various Covid-related absence this means that there’s a likelihood that many such roles are thus uncovered. This is itself an example of the industry not bothering. In this case the pound sign has taken precedence of having the resources in place to assist running a reliable service.
 

dk1

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It does seem odd to me that 3-5cm of snow and temperatures only just below freezing have resulted in very large sections of the network being completely closed with no substitutes provided. The weather is unusual but I wouldn't say extreme.
More to do with wind/drifting really.
 

theageofthetra

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I'm afraid I can look back to the time when rail staff all pulled together to run as complete a service as possible in poor (but not unprecedented) weather. For example, in the bitter winter of 1962/3 we visited from Somerset relations in The Wirral, about 1/2 mile from the 3rd rail electric line. Where you got



for months, apparently. So they just ran ecs all night. We could see the arcing lighting up the sky from the house, and were told it was "normal" in winter evenings but now they were running all night (my Somerset mother, incidentally, told us children that it was the Northern Lights in the sky, until corrected ... :) ). Such an operation wasn't even regarded as heroic, it was just sort of expected that they would do so, done on overtime. Not only the train operation, but the signalboxes needed opening as well of course. The next morning, the peak service ran precisely to time. No trains out of action. No need to get the car out, which is what everyone has to do today.

Now we have this wonderful excuse of "Waaaah, we had a problem at Lewisham some years ago, someone got criticised, haven't done anything about it so let's just start shutting things down". Sorry, those of you directly involved, but that's just how it comes across. Have you seen the snow around this morning in outer London? There's hardly enough for a snowball.
The problem also were the engineering posesse
I would imagine the complexity to roll back a service change is challenging, with the 171 services I would suggest they have crew still in place sitting in Messroom’s near where the units are stabled and can launch them as and when, this isn’t always possible due to crew T&Cs and diagram complexity
Most TOCs have Spares at home to reduce Covid risk.
 

RichJF

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Southern have been on the whole pretty good during this snow so far. This in areas where there's been heavy snowfall (Eastern W Sussex & Surrey).

Southeastern on the other hand....
 

Chrisgr31

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Not south of Edenbridge: until you get to Crowborough there's only one decent road anywhere near the line, at Eridge

Hever and Cowden are not on main roads, although the latter is only a couple of hundred yards from the road that runs through Edenbridge and Ashurst is on the A264. Over the years the only station I haven't been kicked off a train to wait for road transport is Cowden. Much to our surprise they did get a bus to us at Hever once.
 

Murray J

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Southern have been on the whole pretty good during this snow so far. This in areas where there's been heavy snowfall (Eastern W Sussex & Surrey).

Southeastern on the other hand....
Yeah, the vast majority of services ran unaffected yesterday and there was absolutely no wide-spread disruption (at least I don't think so) today.
 

northernbelle

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It looks like Scotrail have had a bit of a day of it today - multiple services striking animals and other snow related issues.

1B44 1850 Inverness to Edinburgh HST has been at a stand near Carrbridge since before half 7 this evening with loss of air needing a rescue locomotive to attend. Still there as of half 11...
 

cambsy

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Lots of problems last night Mon 8th Feb, on Highland Mainline, with nothing getting through to Inverness, lots of partial cancellations, main ones being:

12.00 Kings Cross-Inverness caped at Aviemore,
20.45 Inverness-Euston cancelled to Edinburgh, started Edinburgh,
21.15 Euston-Inverness cancelled beyond Edinburgh,

All services Inverness-Aviemore-Perth etc services were partially cancelled last night Mon 8th Feb, main reason given being traction problems. And looks like Tues 9th Feb 07.55 Inverness-Kings Cross, not running at least from Inverness, see if today goes better and services run properly on Highland Mainline.
 

williamn

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More to do with wind/drifting really.
almost still here (Sussex) yesterday. Today conditions pretty much the same as yesterday but things are now running normally (well, 50% of service but everything on time) which suggests over-caution yesterday.
 

dk1

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almost still here (Sussex) yesterday. Today conditions pretty much the same as yesterday but things are now running normally (well, 50% of service but everything on time) which suggests over-caution yesterday.
Oh I couldn't agree here. 37s sent to plough and clear the Clacton/Felixstowe lines after blockage and also North Walsham to Cromer. Caution was well placed.
 

Scotrail314209

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Glasgow’s network is really feeling the strain of if today. There’s absolutely nothing on the Argyle Line due to multiple problems caused by the ice. The North Clyde is attempting to run as scheduled but is very delayed.
 

philthetube

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It looks like Scotrail have had a bit of a day of it today - multiple services striking animals and other snow related issues.

1B44 1850 Inverness to Edinburgh HST has been at a stand near Carrbridge since before half 7 this evening with loss of air needing a rescue locomotive to attend. Still there as of half 11...

serious question, do animal strikes increase with snow.
Southeastern land will be interesting tomorrow as we've just had another massive dusting here in East Kent...
A dusting followed by a hard frost is probably the worst weather for third rail.
 

Joe96

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The Azumas have had big problems with the weather especially snow in their horns over the last few days.

Also been some a lot of problems with Hot axle box detections, cracked windscreens and quite a few brake issues.
 

Cletus

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Southeastern land will be interesting tomorrow as we've just had another massive dusting here in East Kent...
I was just thinking that. More snow here than the weekend, and due to be very cold in the morning.
 

Southern

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A dusting followed by a hard frost is probably the worst weather for third rail.

I was just thinking that. More snow here than the weekend, and due to be very cold in the morning.
And so far, no contingency plans posted like then, just a fairly vague statement posted on Twitter:

Following the severe weather this week, all lines are open except for the route between Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells which remains closed because of a landslip

Given the very cold temperatures that are forecast, so we can ensure the tracks are free of ice, some very early morning trains on most routes are cancelled tomorrow
 
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Peter Mugridge

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[rose tinted glasses on] In days gone by, the Southern Region ran de-icing trains (converted from all sorts of redundant EMUs) to keep the conductor rails clear of snow and ice

In latter years, MPVs used to run - do they not run any more?

They do; I had one past my garden this evening.
 

ANDREW_D_WEBB

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66427 has had a smashing time on the Settle and Carlisle line https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-56026374

When working with a plough like this, where does the driver sit? In the cab or in the plough, either way it must make seeing signals very tricky.

Carlisle to Settle train removes dangerous icicles in tunnel​

Published4 hours ago
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Several days of sub-zero temperatures have caused icicles up to 1.5m long to form in tunnels
IMAGE COPYRIGHTNETWORK RAIL
image captionStaff managed to remove some icicles by hand
Network Rail has used a special train to remove dangerous 5ft (1.5m) icicles dangling from the roof of a tunnel on the Settle to Carlisle line.
The operator said some icicles were also cleared by hand by staff during the freezing weather conditions.
The icicles can fall and cause delays to passing trains.
Infrastructure director Chris Pye said: "Our extreme weather action teams prepare for when winter bites so we're ready to keep the railway running."
The icicles in tunnels
IMAGE COPYRIGHTNETWORK RAIL
image captionThe icicles can disrupt trains if they fall
Network Rail also has special winter trains, with hot air blowers, steam jets, brushes and scrapers to clear snow and ice from the tracks.
Empty trains, known as ghost trains, often run overnight to keep the tracks clear.
The train entering Blea Moor tunnel to remove dangerous icicles
IMAGE COPYRIGHTNETWORK RAIL
image captionThe icicles were on the Blea Moor tunnel in North Yorkshire
Earlier this week, Northumbria Police also helped Highway Maintenance remove dangerous icicles from the southbound Central Motorway in Newcastle.
 
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Sleepy

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Interesting to note East Suffolk line blocked between Saxmundham and Halesworth this afternoon due to snow drifts when the line was operating quite happily over the previous 4 days of snow/Ice. Snow plough summoned from Norwich to clear tracks.
 

dk1

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Interesting to note East Suffolk line blocked between Saxmundham and Halesworth this afternoon due to snow drifts when the line was operating quite happily over the previous 4 days of snow/Ice. Snow plough summoned from Norwich to clear tracks.
Wind has got up.
 

40129

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not sure how much disruption was ultimately caused, but at least three tunnels in the West Midlands - Beechwood, Gloucester and New Street North - had some pretty impressive icicles in them this morning. Beechwood's were the most impressive at around 5 feet IIRC
 

Mcr Warrior

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Just how fast do these "monster size" five foot icicles take to form? Is it as quickly as overnight?
 

mawallace

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Wind has got up.
Yes - it's been amazing how the drifts have come back in suffolk today - it's been blowing off the fields. As an example, drove down this road last night - it was completely clear - now look at it
 

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