Social distancing rules on public transport?

[yorkie]

...Why do they wish people to not use the aisle seats? ...

So they can be seen to be doing something.

It also gives those who seek conflict an opportunity for conflict and I think some people enjoy that. Most don't though and on most trains I've been on lately no-one tries to suggest aisle seats should not be used. It's just a minority, though putting up with them on the rare occasion you encounter such individuals is very grating to say the least. They really need a hefty dose of reality.

The return journey was excellent - the announcement by the guard contained lots of useful information, such as low occupancy carriages, and said that you should try and leave aisle seats free *if possible*, not a requirement. No splitting people up or other ructions, and a reminder from the guard that not everyone can wear a mask!!

Good to hear some common sense!

I can't report on announcements on any of the 4 trains I caught today, as I didn't hear any. But I'd far rather hear nothing than overzealous claptrap.

 

[YorksDMU]

Well, last Thursday I went to Scarborough again. A three car 170 each way. The journey to Scarborough was okay, not too many passengers, and a friendly guard. No distancing issues on it. The return journey was another matter. I won give too many details, but I have them recorded if required. The train was, again, lightly loaded, so no distancing issues, but it was the announcements. Along with not to use those aisle seats, it stated that eating and drinking is forbidden, and that no mention was made of any exemptions from wearing a face covering. It simply left a sour taste, and spoilt an otherwise good day out.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Well, last Thursday I went to Scarborough again. A three car 170 each way. The journey to Scarborough was okay, not too many passengers, and a friendly guard. No distancing issues on it. The return journey was another matter. I won give too many details, but I have them recorded if required. The train was, again, lightly loaded, so no distancing issues, but it was the announcements. Along with not to use those aisle seats, it stated that eating and drinking is forbidden, and that no mention was made of any exemptions from wearing a face covering. It simply left a sour taste, and spoilt an otherwise good day out.

Were these automated announcements or "live" ones from the guard?

 

[BJames]

Were these automated announcements or "live" ones from the guard?

Let's hope they weren't automated.

It's clearly incorrect anyway, eating and drinking is clearly allowed according to the government legislation. It probably won't get anywhere but if you can be bothered you could send them an email politely asking them to remind all their staff that some people are exempt and that the staff need familiarise themselves with the rules. It's frustrating to continue to hear of people's poor experiences with some guards and face coverings.

 

[Romsey]

Let's hope they weren't automated.

It's clearly incorrect anyway, eating and drinking is clearly allowed according to the government legislation. It probably won't get anywhere but if you can be bothered you could send them an email politely asking them to remind all their staff that some people are exempt and that the staff need familiarise themselves with the rules. It's frustrating to continue to hear of people's poor experiences with some guards and face coverings.

An e-mail to the TOC outlining where the guard was overstepping government guidance might not go amiss.
If you don't want to drop the individual into a "no tea or biscuits" interview, you can forget details like the individual train or date.... That should lead to a general reminder to all guards about what is and isn't required.
So far SWR and GWR have been relaxed with no labelling, just announcements about social distancing after major stations. A couple of SWR guards have reminded passengers about the meaning and importance of Sunflower lanyards which signify hidden disabilities.

 

[YorksDMU]

Were these automated announcements or "live" ones from the guard?

They were live from the guard.

 

[MDB1images]

Deleted, wrong thread

 

[Belperpete]

Why do they wish people to not use the aisle seats? Everyone apart from children should be masked so walking along train you're very briefly passing people for a few seconds so near no risk. Only risk if you spend more than 15 mins less than 2 metres from a person.

Because of this kind of attitude:

Forget about the masks, because they make no difference to transmission in the real world.

In my experience of train travel, while most are wearing a mask, a significant number are pulling them down to only cover their mouths. Or are taking an inordinate amount of time pretending to eat something, so they can leave the mask off.

 

[Mojo]

I’ve just seen an Ad on Facebook from Government stating that if you use public transport you should not sit in facing seats but should sit back to back with someone else.

I see this is now guidance on the Gov.uk website, to travel side by side or behind someone else. Not seen this promoted anywhere else.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’ve just seen an Ad on Facebook from Government stating that if you use public transport you should not sit in facing seats but should sit back to back with someone else.

I see this is now guidance on the Gov.uk website, to travel side by side or behind someone else. Not seen this promoted anywhere else.

Is that potentially preparing people for a move to near-100% capacity, i.e. only the rear facing pair of table seats out of use?

 

[Mojo]

Is that potentially preparing people for a move to near-100% capacity, i.e. only the rear facing pair of table seats out of use?

The graphic associated with the instruction showed two people both travelling in table/bay seating and they were both sat backs touching, so one person would have been facing forward and the person behind them facing backward.

Taking for instance the S8 Stock on the Met line, the diagram on the TfL website shows the distance between the doors as what I think to be 3517mm; this would mean that two customers, one per bay, sat facing each other would be well over the previous 2 metre guidance apart. Now, they would be almost touching and the front of their faces would be under a metre.

 

[DorkingMain]

The real issue I have with the social distancing rules that have been put in place is that there is absolutely no consistency between TOCs, modes of transport, or in some cases even different types of stock.

On buses, TfL have encouraged counted place social distancing but again there seems to be no consistency in how this is enforced. Some drivers are being incredibly strict about it, leaving crowds behind. Others are just seemingly not interested in enforcing it at all. A lot of operators out of London have marked seats out of use in various ways, but there appears to be no consistency as to how this is done or the distance between seats.

Meanwhile on the railway it's even more of a mess:

• Some TOCs are doing nothing, other than encouraging automated / manual announcements about masks and maintaining social distancing
• Some TOCs have onboard staff enforcing social distancing, though not using any particularly consistent or numerical measure
• Some TOCs are using counted place reservation systems, where you can't board without a reservation (is this actually being enforced?)
• Some TOCs are using counted place reservation systems, but then leaving a large chunk of the train unreserved and "encouraging" people to make a reservation
• Some TOCs are just marking seats out of use in various ways, but with varying degrees of distance between seats on different stock and operator

 

[mmh]

Playing devil's advocate, but only slightly, I think the inconsistencies have a benefit. They increase the likelihood that passengers will think the measures are unnecessary or inappropriate.

 

[trainophile]

I just booked two tickets in one transaction on Trainsplit for an Avanti journey, and it gave me two tickets in separate carriages, one in B and one in E. Luckily as it was Trainsplit I was able to change them so at least we will be in the same coach, but couldn't help thinking it's taking things a bit too far.

 

[Huntergreed]

Confusing mixed-messaging in Waverley station.

One announcement: Physical distancing has been reduced to 1 metre on our stations and onboard our trains

Another: Please try to maintain at least 2 metres between you and others at all times.

Last week I had a ticket check and catering trolley on my TPE 397, this week the guard says he’s staying in the rear coach and there’s no catering “due to the need for social distancing”, which begs the question how on Earth was it allowed last week!?

 

[johntea]

Nonsense announcements by Northern guards now...

‘If you refuse to comply by wearing a face mask you need to return to the platform now otherwise you may get kicked off the train en route and met by the BTP’!!!

 

[Huntergreed]

Nonsense announcements by Northern guards now...

‘If you refuse to comply by wearing a face mask you need to return to the platform now otherwise you may get kicked off the train en route and met by the BTP’!!!

Awful, please do put a formal complaint in for this, it’s just not acceptable.

 

[squizzler]

The contrary situation between planes and trains has been brought to stark relief by the recent incident of mass contagion in the TuI flight between Cardiff and Greece.

We were previously told that air travels were more respectful of the rules; that they would board in an orderly manner, take their seats and stay put. Clearly that is not the case with the 'lads on tour' brigades who are presumably those who elect to take a chance with booking foreign travel during the uncertain situation. Clearly the marvellously air (re)circulation systems they had us believed were far in advance of those of lesser forms of public transport are no defence if other passengers are allowing their masks to slip.

The incident can only lead to calls to apply the same distancing requirements in both spaces. AFAIK there is no similar instance of spreading that has been linked to a train in the UK.

 

[Richard Scott]

The contrary situation between planes and trains has been brought to stark relief by the recent incident of mass contagion in the TuI flight between Cardiff and Greece.

We were previously told that air travels were more respectful of the rules; that they would board in an orderly manner, take their seats and stay put. Clearly that is not the case with the 'lads on tour' brigades who are presumably those who elect to take a chance with booking foreign travel during the uncertain situation. Clearly the marvellously air (re)circulation systems they had us believed were far in advance of those of lesser forms of public transport are no defence if other passengers are allowing their masks to slip.

The incident can only lead to calls to apply the same distancing requirements in both spaces. AFAIK there is no similar instance of spreading that has been linked to a train in the UK.

It's really another non event. How many people contracted the virus from the event? Article doesn't say, just says 16 tested positive not where they'd got it from. At the end of the day you know what flying entails so if that bothered don't fly. Still too much hype over this virus, which as we're finding out is having a mortality rate around that of flu. Chances are no older people were on the flight and we know it's more serious for older people. Can be argued flu is more dangerous for people of the age of those on that aircraft

 

[DB]

The contrary situation between planes and trains has been brought to stark relief by the recent incident of mass contagion in the TuI flight between Cardiff and Greece.

We were previously told that air travels were more respectful of the rules; that they would board in an orderly manner, take their seats and stay put. Clearly that is not the case with the 'lads on tour' brigades who are presumably those who elect to take a chance with booking foreign travel during the uncertain situation. Clearly the marvellously air (re)circulation systems they had us believed were far in advance of those of lesser forms of public transport are no defence if other passengers are allowing their masks to slip.

The incident can only lead to calls to apply the same distancing requirements in both spaces. AFAIK there is no similar instance of spreading that has been linked to a train in the UK.

You seem to be assuming that there would have been no or minimal risk of infection if all passengers had worn their masks properly. Got any evidence for that?

It really is time that we accepted that it isn't possible to entirely stop it spreading, and if people aren't prepared to accept that they might catch it then they should avoid planes. It simply wouldn't be viable economically to operate planes in the same way as this country is trying to operate trains. It's only possible with trains because the government is funding it.

 

[westv]

The contrary situation between planes and trains has been brought to stark relief by the recent incident of mass contagion in the TuI flight between Cardiff and Greece.

The BBC article I read said they would have been infected in Zante.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nonsense announcements by Northern guards now...

‘If you refuse to comply by wearing a face mask you need to return to the platform now otherwise you may get kicked off the train en route and met by the BTP’!!!

If not exempt, what's incorrect about that?

 

[DB]

If not exempt, what's incorrect about that?

Haven't we heard that the railways want passengers back? That sort of hostile approach might not be the best tactic...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Haven't we heard that the railways want passengers back? That sort of hostile approach might not be the best tactic...

Or people could just, you know, wear masks as requested unless exempt?

 

[Richard Scott]

Or people could just, you know, wear masks as requested unless exempt?

Then announcement could just state that in a polite manner, not one that'll get people's backs up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Then announcement could just state that in a polite manner, not one that'll get people's backs up.

From observation there are plenty of people who are not wearing them who will only respond to that sort of threat, most specifically groups of younger lads.

 

[Richard Scott]

From observation there are plenty of people who are not wearing them who will only respond to that sort of threat, most specifically groups of younger lads.

Disagree, almost everyone will comply if spoken to in a reasonable manner particularly young lads. If you want a confrontation be confrontational to a teenager, if you want them to comply a request with thank you on the end (as this shows an expectation of compliance) almost always works. I work with teenagers so guarantee this is the way to deal with them. We're not living in Victorian Britain now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Disagree, almost everyone will comply if spoken to in a reasonable manner particularly young lads. If you want a confrontation be confrontational to a teenager, if you want them to comply a request with thank you on the end (as this shows an expectation of compliance) almost always works. I work with teenagers so guarantee this is the way to deal with them. We're not living in Victorian Britain now.

The sort of teenagers who will respond well to reason are the sort who will already, unless exempt, be wearing masks.

 

[Richard Scott]

The sort of teenagers who will responed well to reason are the sort who will already, unless exempt, be wearing masks.

Those that won't respond to reason will also not respond to confrontational behaviour in a positive way either so these sorts of announcements are unnecessary on any account. It would annoy me and I'm fairly compliant.

 

[LowLevel]

The sort of teenagers who will respond well to reason are the sort who will already, unless exempt, be wearing masks.

I don't think you could be more wrong there. Have a laugh with them about how uncomfortable they are - get on fine. Bark at them - get nowhere. In a group there is a way of talking to them and it usually starts with "come on lads (or ladies), you've got to/can't be doing x, y or z". Talk to them like humans and they're usually pretty receptive, even if it means slapping a mask over their make up I had a group the other day that weren't delighted with the concept and I ended up standing for a minute or two (at a decent distance) talking about ways to make them more bearable and where I'd bought mine (which they quite liked - one offered a swap which I politely refused) and no further problems occurred.

Doesn't always work but the worst thing you can do is try and act like a teacher or police officer when you're nothing of the sort.