Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
The Anytime TC is £63.20. The Anytime single is £29.20. You can railcard discount the evening single as it is after 10am.
£29.20+£2.80+£2.80+£19.25=£54.05.
So yes, three returns and you’ve paid for your railcard.
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Solution reached to save Day Travelcards
- Thread starter TrenHotel
- Start date
£29.20+£2.80+£2.80+£19.25=£54.05.
So yes, three returns and you’ve paid for your railcard.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think the OP threw the 16-25 spanner in the works. That Railcard is valid before 10am subject to a minimum fare which is well below the price of an Anytime Day TC, so I think they've found the niche where the latter does make sense.
It does seem, though, that for the vast majority of commuter journeys in the South East where the traveller isn't entitled to a Railcard that can be used at any time, single+contactless+contactless+Railcard single is going to give a significant saving.
There are even cases (ssh!) where Anytime Day Single+Off Peak Day Single (no evening restrictions) is cheaper than the Anytime Day Return even without the Railcard. I'll not specifically call them out here though lest they are fixed, though anyone knowing my usual travel pattern can probably guess easily enough.
Even at larger stations this can be an issue, as since the closure of ticket offices I find that staff are often trying to help people buy tickets/Oyster/whatever from the machines, which means they are away from the gateline for minutes at a time (and, at some places like the SSL entrance at St Pancras, out of sight of anyone having trouble at the gateline).
Though while this is irritating, I still hugely prefer a system where I pay a known and agreed amount of money ahead of time - the way we've purchased products and services for centuries - and then don't have to concern myself with whether I've been charged the right amount later on.
Haywain
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 15,289
I've found an example where the difference between the Anytime Day Travelcard and Anytime Day Return is £12.30, so even with a railcard discount that's a significant uplift.
From Ely to Kings Cross, to travel at peak hours in the morning, an anytime day return is £55.30. An anytime day single (£34.60) and a Network card day single (£22.80) is £57.40. There is no off peak single.
The anytime travelcard is £66.70, so most of the time will be more expensive than an anytime day return and a few contactless TfL journeys.
You can save a bit if you split tickets at Letchworth (anytime day returns for Ely-Letchworth are £18 and Letchworth-Kings Cross are £30.70), for a total of £48.70. That isn't too bad on a normal day as most of the trains I wanted to use stopped at Letchworth. Its a pain when there is disruption, and an Ely-London ticket without a split at Letchworth would have let me use the Greater Anglia trains to Liverpool Street.
You can also save a little with splits at Cambridge, and then using only Greater Anglia trains between Ely and Cambridge. Greater Anglia-only tickets into Liverpool Street are quite a bit cheaper, but slower.
Off peak, and with a Network card, the Travelcards are better value.
Moderator Note:
This thread is to discuss the reversal of TfL’s proposal to withdraw from the Travelcard Agreement.
Discussion on ways of minimising/maximising Travelcard value should go in a separate thread.
Thanks.
This thread is to discuss the reversal of TfL’s proposal to withdraw from the Travelcard Agreement.
Discussion on ways of minimising/maximising Travelcard value should go in a separate thread.
Thanks.
redreni
Member
Sorry if I'm being silly, but TfL's announcement says there will be an increase in the cost of day travelcards issued outside London. I'm assuming they're not so daft as to think these tickets can be priced based on where they're issued and that what they mean is outboundary travelcards?
It doesn't say whether there will be any increase (beyond the regulated fare increases one would normally expect) in the price of inboundary travelcards. If they're not going to be subject to the increase that applies to outboundary travelcards will it not become cheaper, in many cases, to buy a day return to the zone boundary plus an inboundary travelcard?
On one level that could be viewed as just another example of a split ticket saving. But on another level it would pose a bit more of a challenge for passengers since I've yet to find an online journey planner/ticket retailer that will suggest a non-stop split (i.e. taking a train that doesn't call at the boundary station) involving a day return to a zone boundary or boundary station and a day travelcard.
It doesn't say whether there will be any increase (beyond the regulated fare increases one would normally expect) in the price of inboundary travelcards. If they're not going to be subject to the increase that applies to outboundary travelcards will it not become cheaper, in many cases, to buy a day return to the zone boundary plus an inboundary travelcard?
On one level that could be viewed as just another example of a split ticket saving. But on another level it would pose a bit more of a challenge for passengers since I've yet to find an online journey planner/ticket retailer that will suggest a non-stop split (i.e. taking a train that doesn't call at the boundary station) involving a day return to a zone boundary or boundary station and a day travelcard.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, of 3%.
I can't imagine adding 3% will make that true of any of them, the uplift varies but is generally way below the cost of a 1-6 inboundary.
Where most people would save would be in buying a separate ticket to London Terminals and using contactless when travelling out in the morning peak. Anytime Day Travelcards are, with a few exceptions, extremely poor value unless you're going round London all day on multiple journeys or heading out of Zone 1. I can't help but think they were created to extract a bit of extra money out of people who'll just buy them by default, e.g. to make their expenses claim a bit easier.
jon81uk
Member
I understand the average increase of 3% only be applying to outboundary travelcards and is in addition to any normal increase, plus it is an average and I expect the fares where the difference between regular ticket and travelcard is tiny will go up by much more.
I expect TfL fares (ie inboundary) would only go up by the normal increase inTtfL fares.
Already there are many journeys where it is not worth getting a travelcard vs using a ticket to London and then contactless/Oyster caps, especially on anytime fares.
For my normal commute I pay £20.30 for an anytime train ticket, then £7.40 in contactless fares for two TfL zone 1-3 trips, total £27.70.
An anytime travelcard would be £36.70. The contactless cap is £9.60, so even the train ticket and contactless is only £29.90, a saving of almost £7 compared to a travelcard.
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Are TfL fares expected to go up in line with the full increase in July RPI in line with the funding agreement, even if national rail fares go up by less?
If so, that should lead to quite a hike before the 3% is considered.
778
Member
Does that mean that the cost of an outboundary travelcard could increase by nearly 12%?
Whilst I don't dispute what you are saying, the Rail Delivery Group state this:
Rail Delivery Group, Department for Transport and Transport for London reach agreement to save Day Travelcards for train passengers
News from Rail Delivery Group
That gives the impression, although incorrect, that these will increase by a regulated amount plus 3% but as they are not regulated that isn't possible.
They could choose to match the regulated fare increase+3% but they don't have to.
MrJeeves
Established Member
Exactly what keyGo used to do for me when I was commuting to college!
It's important to remember RDG and TfL have said the increase will be an average of 3% across the network.
I would hazard a guess that GTR's incredibly cheap Travelcards could quite possibly increase by more than that average percentage, for example. Otherwise, as it stands, TfL are only due to gain an additional 32.4p from me (rounded down to 30p or up to 35p?) plus the inflation-based "average <9% increase" on my weekend super off-peak travelcard.
If my travelcard increases by the "average" amounts in both respects, that's a £1.30 increase from £10.80 to £12.10, which is still less than I expected.
Haywain
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 3 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 15,289
It's also important to remember that they haven't said that TfL will be receiving just 3% extra - it could, and I suspect will, be that the 3% increase is to allow TfL's share to be increased by more than that while the TOCs don't lose out.
Nottingham59
Established Member
Will this news affect prices of family day travelcards, where I can drive a carload of my son's mates to Rugby and take them all to London for a quid each?
www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk
Kids go for £1 with a London Family Travelcard
Family day out in London? With our Family Travelcard, you and your little explorers can go adventuring for a whole lot less. An Off-Peak Family Travelcard allows up to four kids travel for just £1 each to London when accompanied by an adult when travelling Off-Peak. The price even includes...
MrJeeves
Established Member
These are special offers which come with "private settlement" with TfL, etc. I imagine the cost of these is subsidised by the adult ticket cost anyway.Will this news affect prices of family day travelcards, where I can drive a carload of my son's mates to Rugby and take them all to London for a quid each?
Kids go for £1 with a London Family Travelcard
Family day out in London? With our Family Travelcard, you and your little explorers can go adventuring for a whole lot less. An Off-Peak Family Travelcard allows up to four kids travel for just £1 each to London when accompanied by an adult when travelling Off-Peak. The price even includes...
Moderator Note:
This thread is to discuss the solution being reached to save One Day Travelcards.
Discussion about ticket barriers is off topic. There is a separate thread for this:
This thread is to discuss the solution being reached to save One Day Travelcards.
Discussion about ticket barriers is off topic. There is a separate thread for this:
Help button on Gatelines
I've only ever lost one ticket. Why would demagnetising the ticket be a serious problem? The date is still printed on the front. No chance of having to pay more. It cost me an extra £2.80 in August. I arrived at West Kensington District line station at around 21:00, to find barriers closed, my...
www.railforums.co.uk
So, what else is on your "to fix" wish list as you are certainly on a roll!
I'll be bold and say that an amicable settlement on Driver's Pay and Conditions is reached before the year (2023) is out!So, what else is on your "to fix" wish list as you are certainly on a roll!
But don't quote me on this if it isn't (feel free to if it is).
I thought this graph in the latest TfL Ticketing and Revenue Update was interesting - it appears to show that the number of tube journeys made using Day Travelcards has increased since the pandemic.
Perhaps not surprising in the context of the decline of season tickets, but the fact that Day Travelcard usage had shown clear growth isnot something I've heard explicitly pointed out in the recent debate on the future of these tickets.
Perhaps not surprising in the context of the decline of season tickets, but the fact that Day Travelcard usage had shown clear growth isnot something I've heard explicitly pointed out in the recent debate on the future of these tickets.
Amusingly, I received an email yesterday from my MP.
I had sent him an email when this challenge first raised its head, asking for him to raise it on behalf of his constituents.
He merely pointed me in the direction of TfL and their consultation document and told me to get on with it.
Yesterdays email trumpeted on about how he and the Government had sorted out the problem on our behalf and how well they had done.
My reply pointed out his failure to engage, quoting his last email to me as evidence.
Been a bit of a radio silence since.
I had sent him an email when this challenge first raised its head, asking for him to raise it on behalf of his constituents.
He merely pointed me in the direction of TfL and their consultation document and told me to get on with it.
Yesterdays email trumpeted on about how he and the Government had sorted out the problem on our behalf and how well they had done.
My reply pointed out his failure to engage, quoting his last email to me as evidence.
Been a bit of a radio silence since.
jon81uk
Member
It would almost certainly be due to those travelling in from outside the zones (and therefore not able to use contactless) switching to day travelcards instead of season tickets. Although of course not everyone is getting the best price compared to a split train ticket and contactless.
Snow1964
Established Member
TfL has given some more details in the latest Commissioners report (see page 24). Will be 3% rise above the fare increase from March, and TfL gets bigger share
What hope they might have given a figure how much it is forecast to reduce the financial gap by.
45669
Member
Evening All,
I wonder whether someone from London Transport can tell me what will replace the current one-day travelcards from stations outside London when these are abolished later this month.
I understand there is a London one-day travel card which only covers the London area only and not the journey into London. But I can't see where or how these can be bought other than doing it on line in advance and have it posted to one's home address. Will I, for example, be able to buy one on arrival at Waterloo? If so where? Is there a ticket office or only machines? And will I get a discount as I have a geriatric railcard?
Any info. from the experts much appreciated.
Ron.
I wonder whether someone from London Transport can tell me what will replace the current one-day travelcards from stations outside London when these are abolished later this month.
I understand there is a London one-day travel card which only covers the London area only and not the journey into London. But I can't see where or how these can be bought other than doing it on line in advance and have it posted to one's home address. Will I, for example, be able to buy one on arrival at Waterloo? If so where? Is there a ticket office or only machines? And will I get a discount as I have a geriatric railcard?
Any info. from the experts much appreciated.
Ron.
redreni
Member
I never bought day travelcards before the pandemic because I had a season ticket. Now I buy them most weekends.
I live in zone 6 so I could use contactless, but why would I when the contactless daily cap is £14.90 with no Network Railcard discount and the day travelcard is £15.10 but with a 1/3 Network Railcard discount which takes it down to £10 at weekends?
Nearly every office worker living in zones 5 & 6 is in this position and most will not qualify for a railcard other than a Network Railcard. I wonder how many spend enough on contactless on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays each year to mean it would be worthwhile spending £30 on a Network Railcard and switching to day travelcards? Even if you've no intention of ever leaving London, you've only got to hit the daily Z1-6 cap 7 times a year...