Southeastern Dispatch Procedure

[Panupreset]

If you can't see the dispatch corridor is clear, and you go, and somebody gets hurt, presidence has been set by the courts. You will go to jail.

 

[TUC]

Good old DOO, its the future!

I don;t see how having a guard would help a diriver who can't see due to the sun.

 

[Skie]

I don;t see how having a guard would help a diriver who can't see due to the sun.

Driver can't see the platform monitors, which are a replacement for a guard standing on the platform and looking down the length of the train to see if is safe to proceed.

Guards dont reflect the sun terribly well while monitors do, so the guard would help significantly more

 

[flash]

Driver can't see the platform monitors, which are a replacement for a guard standing on the platform and looking down the length of the train to see if is safe to proceed.

Guards dont reflect the sun terribly well while monitors do, so the guard would help significantly more

Try looking down the side of a train into a low sun..... Low sun is an issue - whether you be a driver, guard or train dispatcher, as has been said get it wrong and at best you lose your job, at worst your liberty!

 

[FordFocus]

I don;t see how having a guard would help a diriver who can't see due to the sun.

Can shield their eyes or stand under the canopy to help see the entire train. Much better than a driver trying to dispatch through dodgy monitors and having to physically leave the train.

Common problem with DOO, especially with mirrors.

 

[455driver]

Try looking down the side of a train into a low sun..... Low sun is an issue - whether you be a driver, guard or train dispatcher, as has been said get it wrong and at best you lose your job, at worst your liberty!

But the guard can move along or across the platform until they can see clearly, something monitors or mirrors cant do!

Oh, as for somebody commenting that guards don't reflect sunlight, we have some that do!

 

[Skie]

Try looking down the side of a train into a low sun..... Low sun is an issue - whether you be a driver, guard or train dispatcher, as has been said get it wrong and at best you lose your job, at worst your liberty!

I'm not disputing how much of a pita low sun can be, was just amused by TUC's post and trying to explain how a guard is usually better in degraded conditions compared to fancy monitors.

A guard can move about a bit to get a better view and it only takes a second or so extra for a safe dispatch. DOO monitors are useless when the sun is in the right position so then the driver needs to faff around to check the doors are clear.

 

[FordFocus]

If southeastern just gave the reason of 'Issue with dispatch equipment' nothing more would have been said. TOCs are getting slatted for giving vague reasons for problems, in particular 'operational incidents'.

A twitter staff member has explained in more detail and it's ended up on the BBC 6 o clock news....

 

[ScotGG]

It's the least of Southeastern's problems what with a lack of trains, capacity cuts through London Bridge until 2018 and issues like a broken seawall at Folkestone and landslip at Barnehurst. The press just jumped on it as more clickable than actual investigating the network.

 

[12CSVT]

Let's not forget it was low sunlight that caused the Ladbroke Grove accident a few years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladbroke_Grove_rail_crash

 

[SPADTrap]

Let's not forget it was low sunlight that caused the Ladbroke Grove accident a few years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladbroke_Grove_rail_crash

Post of the day.

 

[455driver]

CD can be given on a red but RA is linked to the aspect and cant be given on a red.

Of course if we are taking a green flag RA then you can certainly get that on a red-same with a guard ringing bells.

You missed out a rather important 'T' in that post!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It once happened at a station, on a loop platform,that the platform staff tried to give the guard the tip to go, but the signal was red, so the guard refused to close the doors. P Staff tried again, and the guard trying to show that they would not go, held their hands down. P staff now very miffed so they then went to push the CD button, as he was doing this a train flew past on the main line doing about 60. P staff was never seen again.

I had a similar incident at Clapham jn, sat there on a red and the P staff blows his whistle and raises the bat, I ignore him so he does it again (really blowing the whistle and stretching his arm up with the bat as high as it would go), I put both my arms up in the air but he does it for a third time. I am getting a bit miffed so I walk down the platform to him and ask him what he is playing it, he replies 'control have told me to get this train moving so get back there and do your job', I reply 'but the signal is red', he repeats the 'control said' line so I decide its best not to answer anymore (I would struggle to be polite ) so I decide its best to get a supervisor to 'have a chat' with him, they then have a very load 'discussion' about train dispatch and the Supervisor decides that maybe they need a new dispatcher!

I never saw him the bloke again, what happened to him I have no idea but he was an accident waiting to happen!

Oh before anyone says I am lying, if I wasn't there myself I wouldn't have believed it either!

 

[Antman]

It's the least of Southeastern's problems what with a lack of trains, capacity cuts through London Bridge until 2018 and issues like a broken seawall at Folkestone and landslip at Barnehurst. The press just jumped on it as more clickable than actual investigating the network.

Oh dear, what aren't the press to blame for?

This problem at Lewisham has been discussed in another thread, passengers do seem to generally accept that the Barnehurst landslip was beyond Southeasterns control along with incidents at Woolwich and Hildenborough along with the long term problems between Dover and Folkestone but trains being delayed by the sun, they think it's a joke!

Don't blame the press!!

 

[gtr driver]

Oh dear, what aren't the press to blame for?

This problem at Lewisham has been discussed in another thread, passengers do seem to generally accept that the Barnehurst landslip was beyond Southeasterns control along with incidents at Woolwich and Hildenborough along with the long term problems between Dover and Folkestone but trains being delayed by the sun, they think it's a joke!

Don't blame the press!!

Why not? The press are responsible for repeatedly misleading passengers about the truth. Myself and other posters have tried to reason with you as to why the low sunlight is no joke, but, like the press you now seem determined to make unwarranted mileage out of the issue. I suspect you may actually be trolling now. If you still think it's funny, I refer you to the post about the Ladbroke Grove crash.

 

[Antman]

Why not? The press are responsible for repeatedly misleading passengers about the truth. Myself and other posters have tried to reason with you as to why the low sunlight is no joke, but, like the press you now seem determined to make unwarranted mileage out of the issue. I suspect you may actually be trolling now. If you still think it's funny, I refer you to the post about the Ladbroke Grove crash.

No they are not, they are just an easy scapegoat!

Trolling? That's a bit of a low blow isn't it?

This is another example of the rail industry (and yes I'm generalising now just like you about the press/media) shooting itself in the foot, the delays at Lewisham were a spit in the ocean in the overall scheme of things this morning and need never have been mentioned.

 

[gtr driver]

You missed out a rather important 'T' in that post!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I had a similar incident at Clapham jn, sat there on a red and the P staff blows his whistle and raises the bat, I ignore him so he does it again (really blowing the whistle and stretching his arm up with the bat as high as it would go), I put both my arms up in the air but he does it for a third time. I am getting a bit miffed so I walk down the platform to him and ask him what he is playing it, he replies 'control have told me to get this train moving so get back there and do your job', I reply 'but the signal is red', he repeats the 'control said' line so I decide its best not to answer anymore (I would struggle to be polite ) so I decide its best to get a supervisor to 'have a chat' with him, they then have a very load 'discussion' about train dispatch and the Supervisor decides that maybe they need a new dispatcher!

I never saw him the bloke again, what happened to him I have no idea but he was an accident waiting to happen!

Oh before anyone says I am lying, if I wasn't there myself I wouldn't have believed it either!

Sadly I can. Not a red, but I've had messages from control asking me to leave a station while the guard is following up a smoke alarm. I'd love to know how they'd have reacted to the emergency evacuation closing all lines ten minutes later had it been an actual fire raging.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

But the guard can move along or across the platform until they can see clearly, something monitors or mirrors cant do!

Exactly!
They can and they do. Whatever it takes to dispatch safely.

 

[HSTEd]

This can clearly be avoided by replacing all above ground railways with underground lines.

 

[Antman]

Sadly the incident at Hildenborough is confirmed as a fatality, apparently a few people were shaken by the incident, both staff and passengers, and my thoughts go out to all concerned

 

[Class 170101]

I think the lesson here is don't give the 'Press' the ammunition in the first place.

 

[Antman]

I think the lesson here is don't give the 'Press' the ammunition in the first place.

What is this fixation with 'the press'? They were ridiculed by their own customers on twitter without any help from 'the press'.

 

[Antman]

Waterloo East platforms A & D are DOO despatch... and platforms B/C have platform staff and are CD/RA despatch.

St Mary Cray is bat and flag and still have platform staff which is unusual in the fact that it's a zone 6 station in the Greater London metro area, it only has 4 trains per hour in each direction (2 of which are Thameslink driver only) and it isn't a main interchange station like Orpington or Bromley South.

I went through St Mary Cray tonight and noticed that both there and at Bromley South the bat and flag have been replaced by a hand held 'torch', white light CD and green light RA. I don't know how long that's been in situ?

 

[Via Bank]

I would argue the lesson here is not to blame the 'Press' (or the public) for ridiculing the Railway, when the Railway provides a gift horse by continuing to use systems and safety-critical processes that can be defeated by the time of day.

 

[A-driver]

I went through St Mary Cray tonight and noticed that both there and at Bromley South the bat and flag have been replaced by a hand held 'torch', white light CD and green light RA. I don't know how long that's been in situ?

What time of day was it? Bat and flag and white/green light are exactly the same dispatch methods. Bat and flag is used during daylight and are replaced by white and green lights during darkness.

 

[Antman]

What time of day was it? Bat and flag and white/green light are exactly the same dispatch methods. Bat and flag is used during daylight and are replaced by white and green lights during darkness.

Late evening

 

[Abdul Rehman]

Both methods are correct and the difference may be due to different roles of the personnel.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

If it's night, or the weather is otherwise so bad that the visibility is poor, the staff are known to use handheld torches at Bromley South to do their dispatching.

I've noticed they're nice enough to shine them downwards into the cab, rather than dazzling the driver.

 

[A-driver]

Late evening

As I say, same dispatch method as bat & flag then, just use lamps in the dark.

 

[Bromley boy]

I think all of the signals I sign allow RA on a subsidiary.

Does that include POSAs? Imagine it would.

Cheers.

 

[Antman]

As I say, same dispatch method as bat & flag then, just use lamps in the dark.

Has that been the case for a while? Just I've never noticed it before.