Not till mid 2018
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Southeastern Refurbished Class 375
- Thread starter Deepgreen
- Start date
- Status
Not till mid 2018
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
chickenwings12
Member
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 37
Why?
hock: give the guy a break, he was only saying what he thought would look good on the train not asking all people with visual impairments to be culledPersonally, I think too much can be too much as well. AGA have it right on their intercity trains, the bold yellow stripe is visible enough to me
greaterwest
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2014
- Messages
- 1,432
I think that the livery looks nice except for those terrible maroon and yellow squares, which, as has been stated already, looks like someone put a lego brick in the wrong place.
They could have done better, like FGW do, and use a yellow stripe instead. Heaven only knows why they need a maroon square to indicate a wheelchair zone. Don't most TOCs just have wheelchair / bicycle stickers on the doors?
http://www.intertrains.com/page.php?pageid=171
They could have done better, like FGW do, and use a yellow stripe instead. Heaven only knows why they need a maroon square to indicate a wheelchair zone. Don't most TOCs just have wheelchair / bicycle stickers on the doors?
http://www.intertrains.com/page.php?pageid=171
chickenwings12
Member
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 37
^ I agree with all of this! Whilst it's a good idea, it looks horrendous. Prepare for the onslaught and "disgust" from the ones whining about others having a differing opinion.
Last edited:
Class377/5
Established Member
- Joined
- 19 Jun 2010
- Messages
- 5,594
Why?
Personally, I think too much can be too much as well. AGA have it right on their intercity trains, the bold yellow stripe is visible enough to me
Why the hell should I allow anti disabled comments? I won't give anyone a break with such selfish and frankly offensive views. The real network is for everyone not for someone to go exclude a section of society because it's not pretty .
What matters is all the end users can the railways to get them where they want to go safely. Not here to please spotters.
bramling
Veteran Member
Do we know if this feature of the livery was specifically done in response to a desire to make it more prominent for the disabled? Seems slightly strange this is the only livery (so far) to have done this to such an extent.
I can see both sides of the argument, surely it can't be *too* hard to produce a solution that looks tolerable and is adequately visible?
Bishopstone
Established Member
In terms of First Class it should stop the 'I didn't realise!' brigade.
"Looks Tolerable". Just how sensitive is your sense of vision. If it is that bad then it might be too risky for you to travel on the railway. Better go by road, - oh maybe not, your sensitive vision might have to suffer from all those intolerably coloured vehicles. Better complain about those.
The sight impaired people realy do destroy 'normal people's' lifes by their insistence on travelling like everybody else.
bramling
Veteran Member
"Looks Tolerable". Just how sensitive is your sense of vision. If it is that bad then it might be too risky for you to travel on the railway. Better go by road, - oh maybe not, your sensitive vision might have to suffer from all those intolerably coloured vehicles. Better complain about those.
The sight impaired people realy do destroy 'normal people's' lifes by their insistence on travelling like everybody else.
Why is it that whenever anything crops up involving disability it so often ends up down the road of everything being seen as some kind of militant challenge to the lives of disabled people?
Clearly, from the number of postings here, some people do find this livery unattractive. It's not unreasonable to pose the question as to whether a more attractive solution could be found, *which still meets the needs of disabled people* - assuming this was ever the purpose of this livery design.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Talking of yellow stripes, I would like to see this being made mandatory for First Class. I'd also like to see a mandatory and common door marking system implemented like that used on DB:
http://www.railway-technology.com/contractor_images/7272/images/202294/large/MBB__3.jpg
In particularly I would include the 2 for Standard/2nd class so this is always explicitly marked even on trains with no First Class. This would remove a further level of confusion.
http://www.railway-technology.com/contractor_images/7272/images/202294/large/MBB__3.jpg
In particularly I would include the 2 for Standard/2nd class so this is always explicitly marked even on trains with no First Class. This would remove a further level of confusion.
Last edited:
Just as the yellow stripe/band at cantrail level was normal in BR days, it could be used again as an indicator of first class. That was and would be adequate for normal sighted passengers. If it wasn't compliant with current legal visibility requirements, then it would need changing or supplementing. The 375 marking would seem to be along those lines and whilst it may not be as sleek as a thin band, it serves a need rather than just a fancy. So why are so many here trying to remove the need because they don't happen to like it themselves.
I agree that there needs to be a national standard for indication first and standard class accomodation which with TOCs wishing to brand trains using all colours of the spectrum must be applicable to all. Just look at the number of cases where road drivers have had speeding prosecutions overturned because road signs don't comply with specific designs, so should TOCs who wish to prosecute for incorrect class tickets be obliged to consistently mark passenger accomodation with the appropriate ticket class.
Last edited:
chickenwings12
Member
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2012
- Messages
- 37
"Anti-disabled"? :roll: how is anything he said anti-disabled? jesus, some people should just be wrapped in cotton wool
EDIT: I really don't understand, the last thing physics34 said before you suddenly jumped out calling him ignorant and "anti-disabled" was this:
As I said, he's not exactly asking for partially sighted people to be culled. Doesn't even mention disabled people at all for that matter, so please show me an "anti-disabled" comment he said.
Last edited:
bramling
Veteran Member
I don't see why the two have to be mutually exclusive.
One UK train operator recently went to the trouble of carrying out research into moving away from yellow-painted grab poles inside its trains because feedback suggested people found yellow unpleasant. After some work, *fully involving disabled stakeholders*, it was found that dark blue achieved exactly the same objectives for the partially sighted, whilst also pleasing those who didn't like yellow. This example happens to be one of the busiest railways in the world, so it's not just "spotters" who have a stake in these sort of issues.
I can essentially believe the yellow handrail thing. I thought it was more of a "contrast" with other colours rather than using the brightest colours requirement anyway. I believe things have to...to a point....be aesthetically pleasing to fully sighted people too. This is where compromise comes in... and thats where i think this southeastern livery crosses the mark.
Ive been in training rooms where they have been painted purple and terracotta because its thought to raise concentration levels, therefore it makes sense that aggressive colours such as bright yellows may actually cause discomfort subconsciously.
I suppose that is up to the behavioural specialists to assess.
Going back to this livery, the big blocks around the windows in different colours are unaesthetically pleasing IN MY SELFISH AND DISGUSTING opinion.
For example NSE and intercity liveries were had smooth lines, looked great at speeds and were "aesthetically pleasing" as a result.
Last edited:
It's perhaps a good idea to mark standard class carriages to remove doubt as I've been on trains with modern interiors where people have assumed it's first class, when it isn't.
You could argue that they have low standards, but what's the harm?
You could argue that they have low standards, but what's the harm?
Every new paint job prompts comments of 'I love it', 'I like it', 'I don't like it, 'I hate it'. This is no different.
The yellow may look more acceptable when it is located in the middle of the train. On the 375/3s it may be that the yellow First Class surround is 'clashing' with the yellow of the front of the unit and there's just too much yellow as a result. With the 375/6/7/8/9 the First Class is moving to one of the center two coaches and might sit better on its own with nothing else yellow near.
The yellow may look more acceptable when it is located in the middle of the train. On the 375/3s it may be that the yellow First Class surround is 'clashing' with the yellow of the front of the unit and there's just too much yellow as a result. With the 375/6/7/8/9 the First Class is moving to one of the center two coaches and might sit better on its own with nothing else yellow near.
A livery is nice for us to look at and compare with others, take pictures of etc, but most passengers just want a train with clear markings on the outside that shows where to board - such as where first class is, where your actual coach is (when you have booked seats), the doors that are for wheelchairs etc, where the doors actually are and so on.
Ideally a livery will be designed with all of these things taken into consideration from the outset.
It's public transport and that means anyone can use it, not just regular passengers and enthusiasts.
Ideally a livery will be designed with all of these things taken into consideration from the outset.
It's public transport and that means anyone can use it, not just regular passengers and enthusiasts.
And if those colour differentiations are standing out, then they've achieved their purpose.
Personally, I don't care what colour the train is as long as Southeastern run it on time and put a bit more effott into programming their ticket barriers to accept valid tickets!
If the designer(s) were given the brief to design something around the need for certain markings/colours, they'd do it.
If they were told to create something wonderful without that, which was then added later, then you might potentially get something that looks a bit odd and that enthusiasts will moan about.
The solution isn't to just have the nice livery and remove the colours/stickers/markings so it doesn't ruin things, but to design the livery right in the first place.
If they were told to create something wonderful without that, which was then added later, then you might potentially get something that looks a bit odd and that enthusiasts will moan about.
The solution isn't to just have the nice livery and remove the colours/stickers/markings so it doesn't ruin things, but to design the livery right in the first place.
I rather think we are worrying too much about a particular livery; another one will be along soon!
I was talking generally. And I also think we should standardise certain markings and perhaps actually tell passengers what they are.
I mean, we know yellow stripes are for first class. Does everyone? And what colour for the accessible carriage/section? Or where bikes can go?
Sorry. I really shouldn't have tacked my general comment onto your specific posting.
I am in full agreement with you that a common (to all TOCs) set of 'markings' should be used to indicate the items you suggest. I'd also add some standard indication on the front of units as to which way round they are, when this affects where First Class etc. may be found.
fusionblue
Member
- Joined
- 10 May 2012
- Messages
- 326
The 376s are broadly the same age as the 375. All they've had is new stickers stuck over the doors and "priority seat" stickers on the seats nearest to the doors.
"No plans" to refurb those (meaning they have been untouched/unrefurbished since launch) or the networkers.
"No plans" to refurb those (meaning they have been untouched/unrefurbished since launch) or the networkers.
I like the clearly marked Priority Seat and I believe you can apply for an id card so that its clear you get priority
I thought they were getting a deep clean and full refresh ? Pretty sure there was something in our newsletter about it.
The 376s are fine though. Not much needs doing there. The Networkers though are a different story. Dirty, scratched, often broken seats and all round grubby. How many other trains go 25 years without a proper refurb? Some northern pacers and GA trains?
As for deep clean etc - SE say this but all I can ever find in their publications when looking into it is 375 mentioned. Networkers will get new toilets sometime before 2018 I think but no word on anything else and a proper top to bottom clean. Something like what SW have with 455s and 2x2 seating would be ideal.
As for deep clean etc - SE say this but all I can ever find in their publications when looking into it is 375 mentioned. Networkers will get new toilets sometime before 2018 I think but no word on anything else and a proper top to bottom clean. Something like what SW have with 455s and 2x2 seating would be ideal.
Deepgreen
Established Member
I think that the livery looks nice except for those terrible maroon and yellow squares, which, as has been stated already, looks like someone put a lego brick in the wrong place.
They could have done better, like FGW do, and use a yellow stripe instead. Heaven only knows why they need a maroon square to indicate a wheelchair zone. Don't most TOCs just have wheelchair / bicycle stickers on the doors?
http://www.intertrains.com/page.php?pageid=171
Unfortunately, though, several FGW 166s still have yellow stripes where the first class has been downgraded to standard. The others have had a black tape stuck over the yellow, but this must be a very hard and time-consuming job, given the number that have been missed!
375306 was at the stops at Victoria yesterday, with a Networker rake at the country end. See photo.
Last edited:
its just too "showy" for me... especially being around the windows...
...it basically says to the outside world.... "here are the first class people"....... and "here are the disabled people".....
its almost like a gallery!!
- Status