Southern 313 withdrawal, planned date?

[Islineclear3_1]

Given that the withdrawal of Southern's 455s is happening, is there a firm date set for Southern's 313s considering they are slightly older?

 

[LA50041]

Given that the withdrawal of Southern's 455s is happening, is there a firm date set for Southern's 313s considering they are slightly older?

not yet

 

[Islineclear3_1]

OK thanks

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I must say, as our Portsmouth train trundled into Bedhampton the other day, where we were waiting, the family member isn’t interested in trains said “God, it looks like it’s about to give up,” and he wasn’t wrong. They are knackered.

 

[king_walnut]

With the withdrawal of the 313s also comes the transfer of conductors to the OBS role, which I don't imagine will be a quiet affair.

Not sure where they'll get the stock from to replace twenty 313 units either, I'm sure someone far more knowledgeable on what stock is where and what's currently being built might have an input.

 

[tricky18jan]

Hopefully they are still around in early May so I can catch the last 3 I need

 

[JonathanH]

Not sure where they'll get the stock from to replace twenty 313 units either, I'm sure someone far more knowledgeable on what stock is where and what's currently being built might have an input.

It is safe to say that nothing is being built to replace 313s.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hopefully they are still around in early May so I can catch the last 3 I need

They almost definitely will be around in early May.

 

[physics34]

With the withdrawal of the 313s also comes the transfer of conductors to the OBS role, which I don't imagine will be a quiet affair.

Not sure where they'll get the stock from to replace twenty 313 units either, I'm sure someone far more knowledgeable on what stock is where and what's currently being built might have an input.

The continued rumour is the 387s from GN or the 377/5s from SE

 

[mic505]

Hopefully they are still around in early May so I can catch the last 3 I need

The 313's go in the December 2022 Timetable Change. Plenty of time to travel on them.

 

[king_walnut]

The 313's go in the December 2022 Timetable Change. Plenty of time to travel on them.

Is there a source on that?

 

[MatthewRead]

The continued rumour is the 387s from GN or the 377/5s from SE

379's to Great Northern to displace 387's to Southern in turn displacing 377's to replace 455's.
Meanwhile 465/9's to Southeastern Victoria-Ashford etc to displace 377/5's to Southern to replace 313's.

 

[Bishopstone]

Not sure where they'll get the stock from to replace twenty 313 units either, I'm sure someone far more knowledgeable on what stock is where and what's currently being built might have an input.

Many of the services that required twenty-ish 313s are no longer running: West Worthing-Brighton; Lewes shuttles; Hove shuttles. So whilst there is a requirement for replacement stock, the number isn’t 20 units.

 

[JonathanH]

Many of the services that required twenty-ish 313s are no longer running: West Worthing-Brighton; Lewes shuttles; Hove shuttles. So whilst there is a requirement for replacement stock, the number isn’t 20 units.

Indeed, more like 12 now which isn't really many to find. Depending on how the 455 replacement goes, you really would like to think that replacement could be achieved within Southern's existing resources.

 

[mic505]

Is there a source on that?

Twitter, WNXX: "313205" thread.

 

[Milo T.K]

From an internal source apparently it's going to be 377/5s replacing the 313s

 

[JonathanH]

From an internal source apparently it's going to be 377/5s replacing the 313s

There are, of course, 23 377/5s, and probably a requirement for around 12 diagrams to replace the 313s so it will be interesting to see if they all transfer.

Having all the 375s at Southeastern and all the 377s at Southern does appeal to OCD though.

 

[Watershed]

Having all the 375s at Southeastern and all the 377s at Southern does appeal to OCD though.

It also slightly simplifies traction learning for traincrew and depot staff. Though probably not massively, as there is very little difference between the various subclasses of Electrostar.

 

[387star]

I remember these trains coming over to the coastway routes just over a decade ago replacing comfortable 377s (no ironing boards on the 3 cars)
Whilst passable for Bognor and Hove shuttles their use on Brighton to Portsmouth services is outrageous given there are no toilets on board and the services are often overcrowded. However they have managed to keep Guards as a result. It made the OBS agreement much messier deciding which crew would stay in the Conductor role.

With Milton Keynes and Guildford services ending once these 313s go only Ashford to Hastings and Uckfield diesels will require Guards on Southern. With GWR pulling out of Brighton all services will be DOO there.

 

[physics34]

I remember these trains coming over to the coastway routes just over a decade ago replacing comfortable 377s (no ironing boards on the 3 cars)
Whilst passable for Bognor and Hove shuttles their use on Brighton to Portsmouth services is outrageous given there are no toilets on board and the services are often overcrowded. However they have managed to keep Guards as a result. It made the OBS agreement much messier deciding which crew would stay in the Conductor role.

With Milton Keynes and Guildford services ending once these 313s go only Ashford to Hastings and Uckfield diesels will require Guards on Southern. With GWR pulling out of Brighton all services will be DOO there.

Watfords also

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Indeed, more like 12 now which isn't really many to find. Depending on how the 455 replacement goes, you really would like to think that replacement could be achieved within Southern's existing resources.

Really they've got to back cover the 455's first so unless the 377/5 are coming back from SE the only way to do that is cut back formations. Given peak extras are now consigned to history there will be overcrowding but they seems to be acceptable as PIXC is clearly no longer a target.

 

[387star]

They are in a shocking state now with graffiti everywhere and filthy seat covers
This one feels on its last legs

 

[yorksrob]

379's to Great Northern to displace 387's to Southern in turn displacing 377's to replace 455's.
Meanwhile 465/9's to Southeastern Victoria-Ashford etc to displace 377/5's to Southern to replace 313's.

That's good news, they'll be a lot better suited to the route.

Don't think the networkers will be an improvement on the Maidstone line though.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Nothing is confirmed on the 379/387 migrations.

 

[Jobbenar]

Would Brighton be the best place to go to see them/ride on them 1 last time? Wouldn't mind some pics before they go

 

[JonathanH]

Would Brighton be the best place to go to see them/ride on them 1 last time? Wouldn't mind some pics before they go

Brighton and west towards Littlehampton since, while they are based at Brighton a few of the diagrams work Littlehampton to Portsmouth / Bognor local services

 

[STINT47]

Two thoughts come to mind.

Removing trains without a replacement in the form of new stock is OK at the moment but if passenger numbers go back up again overcrowding may follow.

Taking the 377/5s from Maidstone routes and giving them Networkers is a backwards step in terms of quality. I would be to pleased if this was my local routes unless my fares went down.

 

[Southern Dvr]

You’re making the mistake of thinking that the railway is here to provide for the paying passengers!

 

[Energy]

From an internal source apparently it's going to be 377/5s replacing the 313s

Can SE loose any rolling stock yet?

 

[Snapper]

I've updated my picture blog on @SouthernRailUK Class 313s to the 'end of the line' format and added a link to diagrams so you can catch them whilst you can. https://paulbigland.blog/2019/10/05/the-class-313s-cling-on-to-the-south-coast/