Southern Class 313 withdrawal/storage/scrapping updates

[Deepgreen]

Running a loco around at Preston Park (and Eastleigh) would've been significantly more torturous, not to mention expensive.

This is where we have come to with today's accountants' railway - loco run-rounds seemingly costing more than the many extra miles run by the train simply to avoid them!

 

[LCRTrainfan979]

This is where we have come to with today's accountants' railway - loco run-rounds seemingly costing more than many extra miles run by the train simply to avoid them!

Good point, although I think it is slightly strange that they didn't perhaps get another 313 (in fully working condition) to pull the units out of Lover's Walk, so the locomotive could have been attached to the south (rather than the north as it actually was) (by running through a siding to get past the dead units) and then run to Eastleigh via Barnham and Fareham. Must have been too complicated though

 

[zwk500]

This is where we have come to with today's accountants' railway - loco run-rounds seemingly costing more than the many extra miles run by the train simply to avoid them!

Good point, although I think it is slightly strange that they didn't perhaps get another 313 (in fully working condition) to pull the units out of Lover's Walk, so the locomotive could have been attached to the south (rather than the north as it actually was) (by running through a siding to get past the dead units) and then run to Eastleigh via Barnham and Fareham. Must have been too complicated though

Having a 2nd Driver to shuffle a units out would be about as wasteful as having to get the shunter to accompany the train to Preston Park. Running round in the station would also require a gap in the mainline traffic as well as taking longer. Equally to propel out of Lover's walk would have needed ROG to pay for a 2nd member of staff to monitor the train backing out.
You'd have also needed to runround or propel at Eastleigh, requiring another member of staff (or a member of staff to sit on the 313's cushions along the south coast).

Dropping the loco on the North end meant only 1 ROG driver was needed, minimal depot staff time at Lover's walk was taken up so they could get back to looking after the other units, and a smooth drive in at Eastleigh itself. No runrounds in busy stations blocking passenger traffic, etc.

 

[fgwrich]

Having a 2nd Driver to shuffle a units out would be about as wasteful as having to get the shunter to accompany the train to Preston Park. Running round in the station would also require a gap in the mainline traffic as well as taking longer. Equally to propel out of Lover's walk would have needed ROG to pay for a 2nd member of staff to monitor the train backing out.
You'd have also needed to runround or propel at Eastleigh, requiring another member of staff (or a member of staff to sit on the 313's cushions along the south coast).

Dropping the loco on the North end meant only 1 ROG driver was needed, minimal depot staff time at Lover's walk was taken up so they could get back to looking after the other units, and a smooth drive in at Eastleigh itself. No runrounds in busy stations blocking passenger traffic, etc.

Not necessarily on the last point. As I mentioned above, there was another member of ROG staff travelling in the cab, monitoring the journey. As for Eastleigh, a run around wouldn’t have been impossible in the East Yard - been done plenty of times before, as would a propelling move into the works with a driver in the 313 cab. Space is at a premium (particularly with ever changing / increasing) numbers of 701s in and out of the works, so they’ll still have to run the 37 around in there - and managed to today I believe.

 

[zwk500]

Not necessarily on the last point. As I mentioned above, there was another member of ROG staff travelling in the cab, monitoring the journey.

Were they competent to do a runround or act as the PIC of a propelling move? It may have impacted on the available staff.

As for Eastleigh, a run around wouldn’t have been impossible in the East Yard - been done plenty of times before, as would a propelling move into the works with a driver in the 313 cab.

Both true, if the staff are available.

Space is at a premium (particularly with ever changing / increasing) numbers of 701s in and out of the works, so they’ll still have to run the 37 around in there - and managed to today I believe.

They could, if required and in the correct bit of the works, have used the return loop on to the botley line, of course.

There are many inflexible things about the railway that force maddening extensions to journeys, but this is not high up the list of things that need to be fixed. Would have been nice if ROG had got a 73 to do the job though.

 

[Geeves]

313s don't have EBS or hazard lights .. lack of interlock also doesn't apply the brakes. I'm sure many things were done to prep the units for dead haul but I couldn't say exactly what.


That's interesting King Walnut, so the doors on a 313 can be opened at any time with no effects regards to the brakes? I assume the lights outside the train are called something else? What exactly are they highlighting if not for the doors being open? Learning everyday

 

[petergubbins]

16

Where's the best list of units left in service?

 

[Dart34518]

201,203-213,215,216,219 & 220.

Some will see more service than others over the coming weeks with mileage being preserved etc.

 

[that1pepfan]

Where's the best list of units left in service?

201 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 215 216 219 220

 

[aleggatta]

313s don't have EBS or hazard lights .. lack of interlock also doesn't apply the brakes. I'm sure many things were done to prep the units for dead haul but I couldn't say exactly what.


That's interesting King Walnut, so the doors on a 313 can be opened at any time with no effects regards to the brakes? I assume the lights outside the train are called something else? What exactly are they highlighting if not for the doors being open? Learning everyday

When running in normal service, door interlock runs through a high speed switch (over 5mph) to bring the brakes on upon loss of door interlock. I would take a guess that as all power to the unit is being provided by the loco the translator equipment and it is just putting voltage directly to the brake application train wires and the door interlock etc is being ignored for the purpose of the drag.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Where's the best list of units left in service?

Units also get stored in Hove Yard from time to time; believe 203 +208 went recently

 

[lumitumey12345]

I was told 313s aren’t running on the Seaford branch today

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I was told 313s aren’t running on the Seaford branch today

Engineering works Lewes - Seaford, 2 313s on Brighton - Lewes shurrles

 

[pompeyfan]

I’d imagine a top and tail was out the question because of the hire cost and the brake continuity / translation back into the other loco? They are route cleared to Eastleigh and Southampton, they ran ECS that way during covid for route retention.

 

[Fincra5]

313s don't have EBS or hazard lights .. lack of interlock also doesn't apply the brakes. I'm sure many things were done to prep the units for dead haul but I couldn't say exactly what.

Thats incorrect. A lack of Interlock certainly does apply the brakes...

You'll notice the BILs are only illuminated on the DMS', it's a "Fault Code" of 313s, but my mind escapes me for what... I did learn it years and years ago on my traction course!
If you look back to when 313121 Dragged 313201 from its repaint, as seen here, you'd see the same "Fault Code"

The units were in no state to be driven, robbed for spares, so a Drag is the only option.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

203 + 208 still in Hove Yard

 

[L401CJF]

Thats incorrect. A lack of Interlock certainly does apply the brakes...

You'll notice the BILs are only illuminated on the DMS', it's a "Fault Code" of 313s, but my mind escapes me for what... I did learn it years and years ago on my traction course!
If you look back to when 313121 Dragged 313201 from its repaint, as seen here, you'd see the same "Fault Code"

The units were in no state to be driven, robbed for spares, so a Drag is the only option.

I was going to say they are interlocked. There's a video onboard a 313 somewhere on YouTube taken some years ago, where the person recording presses on the center of the door at speed which breaks the interlock and throws in the emergency brake.

Not something I agree with doing for online views/likes of course! I recall years ago it was a problem when commuters were leaning on doors etc.

 

[pompeyfan]

Does anyone know how the BLS will cover the traction knowledge on the routes where guards don’t usually work trains?

 

[king_walnut]

Thats incorrect. A lack of Interlock certainly does apply the brakes...

You'll notice the BILs are only illuminated on the DMS', it's a "Fault Code" of 313s, but my mind escapes me for what... I did learn it years and years ago on my traction course!
If you look back to when 313121 Dragged 313201 from its repaint, as seen here, you'd see the same "Fault Code"

The units were in no state to be driven, robbed for spares, so a Drag is the only option.

Yes, of course, what I meant was they don't have active interlock like the 377s, so I have seen one roll quite far with the doors wide open, I dunno if the brakes would come on if they rolled up to a certain speed?

 

[Fincra5]

Does anyone know how the BLS will cover the traction knowledge on the routes where guards don’t usually work trains?

BLS will be providing stewards only. The trains will be crewed by GTR staff with the required route and traction Competency.

 

[JonathanH]

BLS will be providing stewards only. The trains will be crewed by GTR staff with the required route and traction Competency.

I suspect the question was essentially asking which GTR guards have competency to work Hove to Three Bridges / Three Bridges to Lewes given that these are not routes normally covered by guards. The rest of the trip is all 313 / 171 territory for the remaining Southern guards.

 

[king_walnut]

I suspect the question was essentially asking which GTR guards have competency to work Hove to Three Bridges / Three Bridges to Lewes given that these are not routes normally covered by guards. The rest of the trip is all 313 / 171 territory for the remaining Southern guards.

If you come in to a station and don't release the doors then you can go back out without a dispatch procedure. The scheduled comfort breaks won't be somewhere that guard competence is needed.

Unless for somewhere like Three Bridges, platform dispatch would be suitable?

 

[Duffer]

If you come in to a station and don't release the doors then you can go back out without a dispatch procedure. The scheduled comfort breaks won't be somewhere that guard competence is needed.

Unless for somewhere like Three Bridges, platform dispatch would be suitable?

The guard working the train still needs route knowledge regardless of the dispatch procedures. As pointed out, there’s quite a lot of the proposed tour itinerary where none of the current establishment of conductors hold competency. There’s also parts of the itinerary where non-corridor stock in multiple isn’t permitted so they’ll have to find a way around that too.

 

[pompeyfan]

I suspect the question was essentially asking which GTR guards have competency to work Hove to Three Bridges / Three Bridges to Lewes given that these are not routes normally covered by guards. The rest of the trip is all 313 / 171 territory for the remaining Southern guards.

This was the question I was trying to ask but obviously didn’t word it quite so well.

 

[Fincra5]

It's all taken care of. Every Box that needs to be ticked prior to the tour commencing will be.

 

[king_walnut]

The guard working the train still needs route knowledge regardless of the dispatch procedures. As pointed out, there’s quite a lot of the proposed tour itinerary where none of the current establishment of conductors hold competency. There’s also parts of the itinerary where non-corridor stock in multiple isn’t permitted so they’ll have to find a way around that too.

313s go back to Brighton from Lewes via Wivelsfield frequently with the guard on board. A couple of months ago they sent a few 313s up the Arun valley and then down to Brighton from there when the line was blocked at Angmering. They also do moves to and from Selhurst with no guard at all. Though admittedly that's all ECS.


I don't know if a 'special railtour' would classify the journey as 'in passenger service'. Like I said, no door release means no dispatch needed.

 

[pompeyfan]

It's all taken care of. Every Box that needs to be ticked prior to the tour commencing will be.

I’m sure it is, just curious as to how they got around that particular obstruction.

 

[that1pepfan]

A 313 unit has seemed to break down at Newhaven Harbour Working 5C05 To Seaford

 

[Sunset route]

Just to make it clear that permissive working is no longer authorised at Preston Park and hasn’t since the Stafford crash and in recent years there has been a bar placed in the interlocking to prevent the calling on subsidiary signals from being used.

 

[Foxxle]

A 313 unit has seemed to break down at Newhaven Harbour Working 5C05 To Seaford

313212 I believe. Apparently 220 was sent to rescue it?