Southern Class 455 Withdrawal

[richardcoughla]

The first 455s to head to Newport for scrap will be 38/39

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1521820601060634624?t=moOCQVQaw5lfSpopYHXfoA&s=19

 

[physics34]

Yes they are, much nicer than their SWR counterparts and any of the Southeastern metro stock.

The only downside is the old DC camshaft equipment making the ride jolty, of they were retractioned with the SWR ones then they would actually be very nice.

Afraid i disagree. Some southern 455s are internally in a poor state and very dirty in many cases.

 

[Class455]

When units are sent to Newport to be scrapped, are they generally scrapped within a few days/week of arrival there or do they get stored in a siding for a while until they are ready to be scrapped?

 

[ScotRail158725]

When units are sent to Newport to be scrapped, are they generally scrapped within a few days/week of arrival there or do they get stored in a siding for a while until they are ready to be scrapped?

Try hours at Newport…

 

[m4tt]

Any ideas on why the move hasn’t left yet?

 

[jack31439]

Any ideas on why the move hasn’t left yet?

it's on the reversible as I type this.

 

[Class455]

it's on the reversible as I type this.

On the move 102 minutes late

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==

Try hours at Newport…

Wow, so they process units very quickly then! Explains how they've been able to deal with a lot of units coming their way recently.

 

[richardcoughla]

Realtime Trains | 5Q56 1307 Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Newport Docks Gbrf | 04/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q56 1307 departure from Stewarts Lane T&R.S.M.D to Newport Docks Gbrf on 04/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[bramling]

When units are sent to Newport to be scrapped, are they generally scrapped within a few days/week of arrival there or do they get stored in a siding for a while until they are ready to be scrapped?

Very quick. Newport isn’t a massive yard, and they work on the principle of letting their shredding plant do a lot of the sorting, with the intention of filling a waiting ship for export. So the place is essentially a production line.

From what I understand, their typical process runs along the lines of unit arrives, separated into vehicles, moved into position, tipped onto side, bogies torn off, bodyshell ripped apart, bits fed into shredder, ship loaded and away. Some vehicles do manage to linger for a bit longer, but most will be gone within a day or two.

Booths by comparison don’t seem to rush.

I suspect this is why Sims seem to be getting a lot of the work. Units delivered by rail, destroyed within a day or two, all ready for the next delivery. Processing units at this rate must make their operation pretty efficient.

 

[warwickshire]

5Q56 1307 47727 1307 Stewart's Lane to Newport Docks Simms with 455838 and 455839 through cholsey approximately 90 minutes late with 455838 and 455839 between two barrier vehicles. However had to spin camera around at front of locomotive to catch barriers and units at another direction. Due to shocking bad light and a violent thunderstorm. Very nicely timed. Mother nature strikes.
However still got units main thing.
However 1st move now gone..
Barriers where the Arlington vans.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The first 455s to head to Newport for scrap will be 38/39

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1521820601060634624?t=moOCQVQaw5lfSpopYHXfoA&s=19

First time I’ve ever been sad about the withdrawal of ex-BR stock. If it had been a SW 455, I wouldn’t have cared. The Southern 455s are lovely

 

[Class455]

First time I’ve ever been sad about the withdrawal of ex-BR stock. If it had been a SW 455, I wouldn’t have cared. The Southern 455s are lovely

I’m shocked that they don’t appear to be going into storage first in case they’re required again should demand return - although 838 and 839 appeared to have been stopped due to them requiring a major overhaul soon. This is purely speculation, but perhaps these two did not have a C4 overhaul done before the announcement that the 455’s were going was made?

 

[JonathanH]

I’m shocked that they don’t appear to be going into storage first in case they’re required again should demand return

If demand returns, there is already a plan (eg 379s to GN, 387s to Southern) which can be enacted to fill the gaps. There is no need to retain the 455s for a possible upturn as the DfT and GTR seem very confident they don't need the 379 cascade to see off the 455s in the first place.

Binning off the 455s means a whole load of DOO equipment can be removed on the Southern network, it means that spares don't need to be kept for a non-standard type, it offers a better passenger environment for travellers, and many other positives that will all have been taken into account in the decision to retire them now.

 

[bramling]

If demand returns, there is already a plan (eg 379s to GN, 387s to Southern) which can be enacted to fill the gaps. There is no need to retain the 455s for a possible upturn as the DfT and GTR seem very confident they don't need the 379 cascade to see off the 455s in the first place.

Binning off the 455s means a whole load of DOO equipment can be removed on the Southern network, it means that spares don't need to be kept for a non-standard type, it offers a better passenger environment for travellers, and many other positives that will all have been taken into account in the decision to retire them now.

The only issue with the above is that GN is minus 19 units. Clearly the 379s can’t fully make up for both the 365 *and* 455 fleets, though there are the 6x LTS 387/3s potentially in the mix as well.

That said, DFT seem unlikely to be bothered about any potential overcrowding. Depending on what happens tomorrow, we may or may not find going forward the government are more bothered about pee-ing off Joe Public!

 

[cactustwirly]

First time I’ve ever been sad about the withdrawal of ex-BR stock. If it had been a SW 455, I wouldn’t have cared. The Southern 455s are lovely

Agreed, I really do like them. South London is gonna feel really weird without them.

 

[PGAT]

Agreed, I really do like them. South London is gonna feel really weird without them.

They’re definitely passable for the routes they serve. Their seats have an acceptable level of comfort and they have nice engine noises.

 

[physics34]

They’re definitely passable for the routes they serve. Their seats have an acceptable level of comfort and they have nice engine noises.

*motor. (Just being pedantic)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==

I’m shocked that they don’t appear to be going into storage first in case they’re required again should demand return - although 838 and 839 appeared to have been stopped due to them requiring a major overhaul soon. This is purely speculation, but perhaps these two did not have a C4 overhaul done before the announcement that the 455’s were going was made?

Im think the peak has reached its limit (75% - 80% of pre pandemic).... off peak and weekends are back to 100%. I dont think demand will increase now. I can see some overcrowding but not so much as to be a 'chaotic problem'.

The 455s are rusting away, they are life expired... as much as we like em.

 

[richardcoughla]

First time I’ve ever been sad about the withdrawal of ex-BR stock. If it had been a SW 455, I wouldn’t have cared. The Southern 455s are lovely

I've only been on them a few times myself they were good units I'll be sad to see the last one go for scrap. Its such a shame they can't be used somewhere else.

 

[adc82140]

I've only been on them a few times myself they were good units I'll be sad to see the last one go for scrap. Its such a shame they can't be used somewhere else.

They are about 40 years old. They are knackered. Why would anyone want to reuse stock of that age? Rolling stock in general service can't last forever.

 

[cactustwirly]

They are about 40 years old. They are knackered. Why would anyone want to reuse stock of that age? Rolling stock in general service can't last forever.

They have just been overhauled, 455814 looked like it had brand new bogies when I saw it on Monday

 

[JonathanH]

Im think the peak has reached its limit (75% - 80% of pre pandemic).... off peak and weekends are back to 100%. I dont think demand will increase now.

455s comfortably work on their own as single units at the weekends on the London Bridge routes. If anything, going to 5 coaches will increase capacity.

 

[Intro298]

455s comfortably work on their own as single units at the weekends on the London Bridge routes. If anything, going to 5 coaches will increase capacity.

Really, I am a local, and excluding covid, single units during the day aren’t that common. Although I may have just been getting the wrong services.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Afraid i disagree. Some southern 455s are internally in a poor state and very dirty in many cases.

I would disagree as well.

As much as I love original equipment (e.g. I prefer the DC motor Class 321s to the AC motor 321s), the SWR 455s are far superior to the Southern 455s, both in terms of aesthetics and sound.

In terms of aesthetics, the SWT refurbishment has vastly improved the interior, with bigger seats, a more spacious environment, and good lighting. In addition, the doors open the full width. The Southern 455s doors don't open fully, with the handrails showing the limits of the door. (Why is this so? Similar units like the 317s open the full width?)

In terms of sounds, well the 455s are probably the 2nd loudest vehicles in the SWR fleet (1st place goes to the diesel units). If you're on the overbridge at Clapham Junction, you will know if an SWR 455 is present by either the very loud regenerative braking or acceleration sounds. I've read on this forum that most of that sound comes from the gearbox. So despite the AC drive, the SWR 455 still make a lot of noise.

In contrast, as mentioned earlier in this thread, the Southern 455s are driven very gently, so they aren't as loud as the SWR ones.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They are about 40 years old. They are knackered. Why would anyone want to reuse stock of that age? Rolling stock in general service can't last forever.

They aren't knackered but surplus to requirements and are certainly far more reliable than many other units a quarter of their age (see MR Golden Spanner awards). Not everything is judged by whether it has air con or not.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

They’re definitely passable for the routes they serve. Their seats have an acceptable level of comfort and they have nice engine noises.

And compressors..

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

And compressors..

lets not forget the clunking camshafts and banging line contactors

 

[FOH]

The Southern 455s doors don't open fully, with the handrails showing the limits of the door. (Why is this so? Similar units like the 317s open the full width?)

I'm sure I read at the time that SWT did a full check out and ensured the door pockets were full depth. They found there was no real reason why the door travel was limited so they removed the pole and opened them fully.

 

[Class455]

The only issue with the above is that GN is minus 19 units. Clearly the 379s can’t fully make up for both the 365 *and* 455 fleets, though there are the 6x LTS 387/3s potentially in the mix as well.

That said, DFT seem unlikely to be bothered about any potential overcrowding. Depending on what happens tomorrow, we may or may not find going forward the government are more bothered about pee-ing off Joe Public!

I like the idea of the 379's going to GN, which will send the 387's south for additional capacity on Metro. And it does make sense to remove all the DOO equipment the 455's use. But there's the GN issue and there's the 313's to replace too, so whilst the 379's could form a solution to replacing the 455's and 313's on SN by sending 387's south (and potentially using Class 377/5's from SE to help replace the 313's) that'll still leave GN short of a few units so it would be very difficult to reintroduce the remaining peak extras should they be required (I personally don't see them returning).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2022 ==

*motor. (Just being pedantic)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 May 2022 ==


Im think the peak has reached its limit (75% - 80% of pre pandemic).... off peak and weekends are back to 100%. I dont think demand will increase now. I can see some overcrowding but not so much as to be a 'chaotic problem'.

The 455s are rusting away, they are life expired... as much as we like em.

I'm not sure if I heard this on here or not, but the logic behind using 5 car 377's on Caterham/Beckenham Junction to London Bridge services instead of 8 cars in the long term was the fact that London Overground used 5 car 378's on their routes and managed just fine. The only difference is the 378's have much more standing room than a 5 car 377....

And as you say, yes whilst I for one am sad to see the 455's leave Southern after growing up with them serving the Caterham line, they are approaching 40 years old so they are coming to the end of their life. As I said on Page 1, they've done extremely well to outlive some younger fleets and to survive and continue performing reliably for so long. I just wish they weren't going so suddenly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2022 ==

I've decided to change the format for the Class 455 status list, doing it in order of unit rather than status/storage location (in a similar format to the SWR Metro Fleet Withdrawal fleet)

Southern Class 455: Current Status as of 05/05/22
455801 - In service
455802 - In service
455803 - Decommissioned, stored Stewarts Lane
455804 - In service
455805 - In service
455806 - Decommissioned, stored Stewarts Lane
455807 - In service
455808 - In service
455809 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455810 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455811 - Stopped at Stewarts Lane?
455812 - In service
455813 - In service
455814 - In service
455815 - In service
455816 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455817 - In service
455818 - In service
455819 - In service
455820 - In service
455821 - In service
455822 - In service
455823 - In service
455824 - In service
455825 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455826 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455827 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455828 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455829 - In service
455830 - In service
455831 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455832 - In service
455833 - In service
455834 - In service
455835 - In service
455836 - In service
455837 - In service
455838 - Awaiting Scrap at Newport Docks
455839 - Awaiting Scrap at Newport Docks
455840 - In service
455841 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455842 - In service
455843 - In service
455844 - In service
455845 - In service
455846 - In service

Total number of Southern 455's in service: 32

 

[tricky18jan]

I like the idea of the 379's going to GN, which will send the 387's south for additional capacity on Metro. And it does make sense to remove all the DOO equipment the 455's use. But there's the GN issue and there's the 313's to replace too, so whilst the 379's could form a solution to replacing the 455's and 313's on SN by sending 387's south (and potentially using Class 377/5's from SE to help replace the 313's) that'll still leave GN short of a few units so it would be very difficult to reintroduce the remaining peak extras should they be required (I personally don't see them returning).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2022 ==


I'm not sure if I heard this on here or not, but the logic behind using 5 car 377's on Caterham/Beckenham Junction to London Bridge services instead of 8 cars in the long term was the fact that London Overground used 5 car 378's on their routes and managed just fine. The only difference is the 378's have much more standing room than a 5 car 377....

And as you say, yes whilst I for one am sad to see the 455's leave Southern after growing up with them serving the Caterham line, they are approaching 40 years old so they are coming to the end of their life. As I said on Page 1, they've done extremely well to outlive some younger fleets and to survive and continue performing reliably for so long. I just wish they weren't going so suddenly.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 May 2022 ==

I've decided to change the format for the Class 455 status list, doing it in order of unit rather than status/storage location (in a similar format to the SWR Metro Fleet Withdrawal fleet)

Southern Class 455: Current Status as of 05/05/22
455801 - In service
455802 - In service
455803 - Decommissioned, stored Stewarts Lane
455804 - In service
455805 - In service
455806 - Decommissioned, stored Stewarts Lane
455807 - In service
455808 - In service
455809 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455810 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455811 - Stopped at Stewarts Lane?
455812 - In service
455813 - In service
455814 - In service
455815 - In service
455816 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455817 - In service
455818 - In service
455819 - In service
455820 - In service
455821 - In service
455822 - In service
455823 - In service
455824 - In service
455825 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455826 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455827 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455828 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455829 - In service
455830 - In service
455831 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455832 - In service
455833 - In service
455834 - In service
455835 - In service
455836 - In service
455837 - In service
455838 - Awaiting Scrap at Newport Docks
455839 - Awaiting Scrap at Newport Docks
455840 - In service
455841 - Stored Stewarts Lane
455842 - In service
455843 - In service
455844 - In service
455845 - In service
455846 - In service

Total number of Southern 455's in service: 32

There were 3 or 4 units at Hove yesterday

 

[03_179]

838/839 made an attempt to stay yesterday as they didn't want to go so had brake problems ... hence the late departure.

This morning ... nothing stored at Hove or Horsham.