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Southern Class 455 Withdrawal

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Class455

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455846 reported on another group to be decommissioned. Last in service on diagram SL513 on Wednesday, so its final passenger service would have been 2H18 09:15 Beckenham Junction to London Bridge
 
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gabrielhj07

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Would anyone happen to know the whereabouts of 803/816? Thanks in advance.

Also, 11/23/35/37 are in the sidings by Streatham Hill.
 
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LA50041

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Would anyone happen to know the whereabouts of 803/816? Thanks in advance.

Also, 11/23/35/37 are in the sidings by Streatham Hill.
Both were at Stewart’s Lane unallocated yesterday, and I don’t think they’ve seen service at all recently
 

BruceTee

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Used 2 services on Wed PM from Tulse Hill to London Bridge and return. Couldn't remember where inbound came from, but return was to Beckenham Junction. Both were still 8 car 455 units. So, some still surviving.
 

physics34

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5843 has got some kind of A4 posters stuck to the windows on the insides. Couldnt read what it was though
 

KC1

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Afraid i disagree. Some southern 455s are internally in a poor state and very dirty in many cases.
Absolutely no way are Southern's 455s are better both for comfort and general ride are better than the SWR's 455s. They are a miles apart including the seating arrangement.

I'm more upset about the demise of SWRs 455s than I'll ever will the Southern ones.
 

cjmillsnun

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First time I’ve ever been sad about the withdrawal of ex-BR stock. If it had been a SW 455, I wouldn’t have cared. The Southern 455s are lovely :(
The Southern 455s were anything but lovely IMO. The SWT refurb was to a much higher standard.

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They aren't knackered but surplus to requirements and are certainly far more reliable than many other units a quarter of their age (see MR Golden Spanner awards). Not everything is judged by whether it has air con or not.
The traction equipment might not be knackered but it is now non standard and the bodyshells are no doubt suffering similar corrosion to other Mk3 based vehicles.
 
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cactustwirly

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The Southern 455s were anything but lovely IMO. The SWT refurb was to a much higher standard.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


The traction equipment might not be knackered but it is now non standard and the bodyshells are no doubt suffering similar corrosion to other Mk3 based vehicles.

I don't understand, the standard of refurbishment was similar between the 2. The SN 455s got 2+3 seats, whereas the SWR ones got 2+2.

The SN ones seem cleaner and have softer lights, ofc the green seats are better than the gareish red
 

bramling

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I don't understand, the standard of refurbishment was similar between the 2. The SN 455s got 2+3 seats, whereas the SWR ones got 2+2.

The SN ones seem cleaner and have softer lights, ofc the green seats are better than the gareish red

Depends on one's perspective I think. The SWT refurb was definitely better for regular commuters who use the trains at busy times - more airline seats (with have decent legroom), no 2+3, better provision for standing. But if you're an off-peak user than the SN layout is just fine. More subjectively, I prefer the SN ambience, I can't claim to be too keen on SWT's use of pale blue, plus the SN units have softer lighting.
 

geoffk

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Maybe an idea to keep some of these in warm storage just in case more third-rail electrification gets the go-ahead (see separate thread on this)!
 

JonathanH

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Maybe an idea to keep some of these in warm storage just in case more third-rail electrification gets the go-ahead (see separate thread on this)!
No. Not worth the cost of storage with other units expected to become spare.
 

boiledbeans2

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Unless you we lucky must of the 455s arw really dirty
Yeah. I spent a day riding the SN 455s.

The trains stink, literally.

The smell of wet laundry which hasn't been allowed to dry thoroughly. I think it comes from the seat covers, which are quite dirty, some with stains.

If they replaced all the seat covers, I think they could last a few more years. The current SN 455s are in a poor condition aesthetically. They remind me of the SE 465/0 or /1 units.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The traction equipment might not be knackered but it is now non standard and the bodyshells are no doubt suffering similar corrosion to other Mk3 based vehicles.
Of course all the new stock is standard and can easily multi up to deal with failures or strengthening
 

PGAT

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Of course all the new stock is standard and can easily multi up to deal with failures or strengthening
Speaking of stock, southern can't use their 377s as replacement forever, so they will have to get new units. Any speculations as to what they will do?
 

PGAT

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They've got another 20 years.....
They're replacing the 455s, which has put a bit of stress on the fleet. Also the Class 313s can't have much longer left, and Southern can't hold back their services much more for the foreseeable future.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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They're replacing the 455s, which has put a bit of stress on the fleet. Also the Class 313s can't have much longer left, and Southern can't hold back their services much more for the foreseeable future.
Unless the passengers come back they will cope perfectly well. DfT aren't bothered about PIXC for a few peak hour trains anymore.
 

Foxxle

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Dont mean to be spreading rumours here, but, if Great Northern did replace their 387s with the 379s, and then the 387s may go over to southern to operate the longer distance services which would mean there would be more 377s free for other services that 455s and 313s operate. As much as this is a rumour at the moment, it's still a possibility. This probably has already been mentioned and apologies if it has.
 

physics34

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Dont mean to be spreading rumours here, but, if Great Northern did replace their 387s with the 379s, and then the 387s may go over to southern to operate the longer distance services which would mean there would be more 377s free for other services that 455s and 313s operate. As much as this is a rumour at the moment, it's still a possibility. This probably has already been mentioned and apologies if it has.
I think that was definately gonna happen if the numbers returned. Doesnt look like peak will return to pre pandemic levels im afraid.

Weve now got a fleet of 379s, with a high lease cost, currently surplus to requirements.
 

Sutton in Ant

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I think that was definately gonna happen if the numbers returned. Doesnt look like peak will return to pre pandemic levels im afraid.

Weve now got a fleet of 379s, with a high lease cost, currently surplus to requirements.
That is bad. These leasing companies needs a good kick up the backside.
 

physics34

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That is bad. These leasing companies needs a good kick up the backside.
I think they are owned by an independent one. They were meant to be premium stock for a premium service so maybe they are asking too much for the lease...
Thats the theory anyway
 

JonathanH

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Southern can't hold back their services much more for the foreseeable future
They absolutely can if that is what they have agreed with the DfT. Someone did point out that one philosophy is to try and push the Southern loadings onto Thameslink because of the fixed formation trains which can carry many people.

That is bad. These leasing companies needs a good kick up the backside.
No it isn't. There is no reason why the taxpayer has to provide funding for the 379s and the leasing companies don't have to change their terms. As pointed out before, it is no different to commercial property sitting vacant and almost no one cares about that. Just because they are trains doesn't make an asset special.
 

bramling

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They absolutely can if that is what they have agreed with the DfT. Someone did point out that one philosophy is to try and push the Southern loadings onto Thameslink because of the fixed formation trains which can carry many people.

Which is essentially what has happened on GN. Once the Welwyn peak services return later this month, the GN-side Thameslink service is I believe at or virtually at 100% of the pre-Covid provision, both in terms of services and lengths.

By contrast, the non-Thameslink GN service is still heavily reduced. No peak Baldocks (6x tidal 8-car services per peak, plus three evening down services), all peak Peterboroughs missing bar 3, and all reduced to 8-car, all evening Peterboroughss missing, and the Kings Lynn / Ely service down to virtually solid 8-car. Perhaps more surprisingly, the 717 services will be remaining well down on pre-Covid.

Where this is causing some discontent is these extras tended to offer niceties like peak non-stop Welwyn North or Stevenage to King’s Cross. Commuters do like this sort of thing, even if the actual time difference is minimal. Likewise the ability not to have to board a service in the core. This certainly won’t be helping encourage people back who have a choice.

It will be interesting to see if the stored 465/2s return. My money is on that they probably won’t, especially as they’ve now gone from warm to cold store, but one never quite knows!
 
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