Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by hornbyfan99, 1 Apr 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    I'm purely talking driver harmonisation. No other grades. FCC and southern/GX are being kept as seperate companies in many ways-including contracts, T&C, pay and driving policies.
     
  2. JamesTT

    JamesTT Member

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2014
    Absolutely by making sure people have a ticket before they board ;)
     
  3. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

    Messages:
    4,158
    Joined:
    3 Feb 2013
    Some people would regard clamping down on ticketless travel as good customer service.
     
  4. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

    Messages:
    4,752
    Joined:
    6 Apr 2013
    Location:
    Nottingham
    Can someone explain to me how ASLEF balloted drivers in a way that breaches the rules on balloting?

    Also, can someone explain to me how the second part works?
     
  5. Robertj21a

    Robertj21a Established Member

    Messages:
    6,051
    Joined:
    22 Sep 2013
    I doubt that any of us will know for definite but I would be surprised if ASLEF hadn't been ultra-careful to ensure everything was legal. If they've messed up then they only have themselves to blame, they know the law takes a very precise view of issues.
     
  6. JamesTT

    JamesTT Member

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2014
    But if the true aim is to get rid of guards on all but a small number of routes and rolling stock types and the OBS staff will end up displaced or redundant come 2021. Won't the cost savings in doing this make it finacially viable to introduce driver harmonisation. That all drivers become GTR drivers not distinguished by a brand. On an enhanced pay, even better conditions but on the proviso that the adopt DOO(P)
     
  7. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011

    Why would they want driver harmonisation? There's nothing in it for the company.
     
  8. JamesTT

    JamesTT Member

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2014
    Well if the ends justify the means. The ends being that Govia get franchise bonus payments and will be favourites for securing further franchises. Plus an overall cost savings on the wage bill for the franchise.
     
  9. 313103

    313103 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,595
    Joined:
    13 May 2006
    The drivers on LOROL had DOO in there contracts after agreements between ASLEF in 1996 as part of the introduction of Driver Restructuring Initiative with the then incumbent owners of Silverlink, National Express.

    There was a lot ASLEF could of done like not agreeing to the extension of DOO in the first place. In my eyes that is collaboration and affected me personally. Once DOO is agreed with ASLEF all the RMT could do is negotiate a higher then average settlement plan for those being made redundant.
     
  10. HH

    HH Established Member

    Messages:
    4,161
    Joined:
    31 Jul 2009
    Location:
    Essex
    I can see ways in which harmonisation might be agreed if there was a will on both sides. There are things that the ex-FCC drivers have, like the right not to work Sundays, that I'm sure GTR wish they didn't. Plus GTR would probably like a multi-year pay deal, a RDW agreement and I'm sure other things too. But this pre-supposes that you have two sides who want to reach an agreement, whereas I expect we don't have one.
     
  11. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

    Messages:
    4,483
    Joined:
    9 May 2011



    The Sunday agreement will be dealt with without harmonisation-it will be dealt with in he next (October) FCC pay deal. That's probably why GTR are already making contingency plans for an all out strike by GN and TL drivers before Xmas (seriously-they are).

    I don't know why harmonisation would affect bonus payments or securing future franchises-GTR have said from the start that they do not want harmonisation.

    The pay anniversary has already moved from April for FCC to October to bring it in line with southern. They are going for harmonisation by the back door for the is they want (12 car DOO) but avoiding formally harmonising which would be too expensive.
     
  12. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

    Messages:
    1,926
    Joined:
    5 Jan 2016
    I suspect that had aslef balloted all drivers that would have been use be gtr as ground to have the result dismissed
     
  13. JamesTT

    JamesTT Member

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2014
    Time for a crazy theory. DFT and GTR are determined to introduce an extension of DOO. It is one of the committed obligations and would lead to a bonus payment if achieved. If GTR offered to harmonise the drivers contracts offering new terms which overall benefit the driver's. Based on an agreement that DOO will be extended. Might GTR change their stance on harmonisation?
     
  14. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

    Messages:
    3,004
    Joined:
    13 Feb 2011
    You think ASLEF are having informal chats with GTR when GTR have one injunction out on them and are looking for another? I have to ask what planet you're on?
     
  15. spangles

    spangles Member

    Messages:
    58
    Joined:
    26 Feb 2016
    I've no reason to doubt you that they are making contingency plans, but I'm struggling to see what those could be. How would they run a service without drivers. Surely there can't be management grade drivers (like there was conductors during the last strike?)
     
    Last edited: 24 May 2016
  16. Carlisle

    Carlisle Established Member

    Messages:
    3,097
    Joined:
    26 Aug 2012
    Was that due to the to the unsafe nature of Strood tunnel until it was re lined?
     
  17. HH

    HH Established Member

    Messages:
    4,161
    Joined:
    31 Jul 2009
    Location:
    Essex
    There are, driver managers; but most of those wouldn't normally have up to date route knowledge, etc. Even if they got them up to date there's only about 1 for every 25 drivers and several probably won't be physically competent. Contingency doesn't necessarily mean that they will run any trains; it's just that they have a plan... (cancel everything and go down the pub would be a contingency plan :lol:)
     
  18. JamesTT

    JamesTT Member

    Messages:
    503
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2014
    Would public liability premiums increase if DOO was extended? If so does DFT/NR foot the bill or the TOC in question?
     
  19. Skimble19

    Skimble19 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,396
    Joined:
    12 Dec 2009
    Location:
    East Coast Mainline
    It'll be the same plan as last year I imagine when a drivers strike (or the year before, I forget when it was) was threatened, a very, very limited service of 1/2 an hour at all main stations, no trains at smaller stations to allow 8/12 car operation and station staff everywhere with queuing systems in place.
     
    Last edited: 24 May 2016
  20. Squonk

    Squonk Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    12 May 2016
    Location:
    SE London
    This image was recently posted on a facebook group and accurately depicts the in cab monitor image from a 377 on a sunny day,

    so who fancies becoming a train driver and playing the roulette wheel of DOO ?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 25 May 2016
  21. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

    Messages:
    9,361
    Joined:
    27 Feb 2011
    The North Downs Line isn't intercity though. Could they have made partial friends with the DfT and run some as DOO.

    Not that I want them to mind you.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Tapatalk had one for this forum but it's gone now. However those without Tapatalk couldn't see it. I imagine most people don't use Tapatalk to access this forum either.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I go to a small restaurant in Guildford called Olivos. They regularly wins local customer service awards. I wasn't aware it was run by hedge fund managers!

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: 25 May 2016
  22. DarloRich

    DarloRich Veteran Member

    Messages:
    23,364
    Joined:
    12 Oct 2010
    Location:
    Work - Fenny Stratford(MK) Home - Darlington
    You know he means large national/international chains.
     
  23. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

    Messages:
    9,361
    Joined:
    27 Feb 2011
    How did it end up in the driver's contracts in the fist place?

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
     
  24. HLE

    HLE Established Member

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    27 Dec 2013
    If it were me, that would be a call to control and the signaller to say I cannot leave X station because I cannot tell whether it is safe to dispatch or not.
     
  25. 313103

    313103 Established Member

    Messages:
    1,595
    Joined:
    13 May 2006
    I gave an answer yesterday with regard to this question See post 2409.
     
  26. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,094
    Joined:
    1 Dec 2013
    We tell the signaller and then go back and lock each carriage out individually and then report it to southern at the end of our duty. Imagine how long a 12 car would take!
     
  27. Squonk

    Squonk Member

    Messages:
    20
    Joined:
    12 May 2016
    Location:
    SE London
    I agree and I would do the same, and I accept that that image is probably worst case situation but for the benefit of those outside the business this is the kind of equipment we have to work with, I sometimes get the impression that people think we have large wide screen panoramic monitors with HD resolution and get a view far better than any Conductors eyes, the truth is a long way from that i'm afraid, modern technology isn't always better.
     
  28. HLE

    HLE Established Member

    Messages:
    1,258
    Joined:
    27 Dec 2013
    Huge waste of time. Probably costs more in delay minutes than a guards monthly wage.

    But even if the doors are locked out - it still isn't safe to dispatch.

    Really does show how much we take for granted up here
     
  29. tsr

    tsr Established Member

    Messages:
    7,376
    Joined:
    15 Nov 2011
    Location:
    Between the parallel lines
    I've done it, several times, in various places. And then had to go back to perform the train safety check from the correct dispatch position.

    Allow at least 10 minutes... could be waaay more if the porter switches are sticky or there's a door fault as well...
     
  30. RichardN

    RichardN Member

    Messages:
    429
    Joined:
    29 Nov 2013
    The tunnel isn't between Strood and Gillingham, so unlikely I'd think.

    They might actually mean "to Gillingham via Strood" and use Strood to Gillingham as a shorthand, of course.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page