At least they care about equality, OBS will worsen it.
They care about themselves and only themselves. Don't kid yourself otherwise.
At least they care about equality, OBS will worsen it.
Pay who a living wage? £33k for an OBS? Worth more than a nurse, 5 years degree level training v a few months sub GSCE. Get real.
TOC apologist, better than being union dinosaur holding the country to ransom for selfish ideals.
They care about themselves and only themselves. Don't kid yourself otherwise.
You probably didn't join a union either. I think you're also confusing nursing (3 years) with the MBChB (5 years).
I am strictly neutral in this debate.
But the fact is that having a guaRd on my train assures me traveling on that train, under OBS policy, it will become a lot more unpredictable.
Virtually nobody in any line of work will want to take on more duties if we don't really have to including myself, but change happens, get over itThe drivers don't want this responsibility either. You fail to grasp that too.
One this is quite clear you are not prepared to listen to any other point of view, yet I have listened to yours. I have already said that various parties should be involved in developing this method of working, more than they perhaps have done in the past. What's wrong with that?
The fact is you are an angry little man that is incapable of finding work outside the rail industry because of your own personal failures. That is why you are so frightened and do not want to compromise.
As an outsider to the railway industry l have to say that the sort of arrogant attitude, ignoring what seem to be very valid safety concerns, that you have displayed make me think heavy investment into automated signalling systems to get rid of opinionated individuals could be a very good way ahead.
Yes l am denigrating your field of work just as you have others!
The only arrogant people are those that expect automatic sympathy, causing countless issues for passengers, based on nothing much really. You might not be able to see the bull****, I can smell it from a mile.
The resignalling is already happening, embraced in a mature way by the signalling grade.
There are those who might say detecting something that you have written copious quantities of isn't exactly rocket science...
highdyke you are/were a signaller. You clearly haven't been a driver yet you have made some pretty strong comments that I would suggest only those of us in the driving grade are able to make. Some on here seem to believe the GSMR is this wonderful infallible bit of kit. It isn't which is why emergency protection and SPT's are still in existence in the rule book and out on the ground.
Whereas you clearly think that you do despite the holes and fallacies in your input having been repeatedly addressed.Well you've clearly nothing to add, whatsoever.
Strong comments about the driving grade? Which ones. I've suffered endless personal attacks, which proves to me beyond all doubt arguments are weak.
GSM-R or mobile are not infallible no, there are SPTs still provided true. Emergency protection with detonators is still there, but by far the worst option as you well know as is almost never used on the modern railway in the age of mobile communications.
You've been out of the signalling grade for years too you claim so you aren't even able to comment on the attributes or failings of GSM-R with any element of authority.
Whereas you clearly think that you do despite the holes and fallacies in your input having been repeatedly addressed.
Opinions are like buttholes, we all have one. I am amused, particularly after 30 years of Whitehall experience, at the fact that, with very little apparent sense of your own limitations in experience etc, you rate your own so highly. You mentioned involvement in Inquiries.. let me just say that if you had taken a similar attitude in some of the Inquiries l've been involved with the QCs leading would have ripped you a second butthole...
You don't even know how axle counters work with any authority.
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You rate yourself so highly, that's the third attack you have made on me, without adding anything to this debate whosoever.
I do have the experience and authority to detect NPD though.
I was on a train involved in an incident which reinforced, to my mind, the absolute necessity for there being at least two members of staff on the vast majority of services.
The train I was on today was a traditional driver/guard operated service and shortly after departure from an intermediate station the guard came over the PA to request anyone with medical knowledge or training to make themselves known to him in the middle of the train.
Whilst the guard was able to deal with the medical emergency (helped by an off-duty doctor) the driver took the train forward to the next station where the train was promptly met by paramedics and police who removed the passenger from the train.
Whilst this was ongoing the guard was also able to keep the remaining passengers informed and liase with the emergency services (until the Network Rail MOM arrived at least) whilst, as far as I'm aware, the driver coordinated with railway control.
If this train had been truly DOO with only the driver on board then the whole situation would most likely have worked out very much differently.
The first time a member of railway staff (who could coordinate things) would have known about it is when someone pulled the emergency cord, which on the stock we were on, would have just dumped the brake meaning we would have ended up stopped in the middle of nowhere rather than an easily accessible station. Getting the message out that medical assistance was required would have taken longer. Communicating the situation to passengers would have been impossible as the driver would be busy dealing with the medical emergency situation, trying to coordinate getting the train met by emergency services and trying to keep railway control informed of what's going on.
Whether or not the second member of staff is safety critical and no matter who does the doors a second member of staff on nearly every service is vital as far as I'm concerned. My experience today just unarguably proves that.
And yes an email to the relevant TOC praising their staff will be on its way shortly.
I do have the experience and authority to detect NPD though.
Yeah right. Anyway enough of the personal attacks. Clearly the level of debate is not great here, so it's time to head someone else to spend time. No, I'm not 100% right or always right, do not know everything, and never claimed so.
There is issuex with DOO, it certainly isn't perfect. Unfortunately I don't think the issue is going to go away in the industry and I can see it dragging on and on. A great shame.
I don't mind personal attacks, such as being called an angry little man with no intellect and no prospects off the railways due to my lack of skill set.
The DOO spectre isn't going to go away, and it is a great shame, because it's not good for the industry, or it's paying passengers, and it's not progress, it's retrogressive
How is it retrogressive to remove the second employee from the train? Haven't railways always had guards?
I don't mind personal attacks, such as being called an angry little man with no intellect and no prospects off the railways due to my lack of skill set.
HIGHDYKE, you say you've been made redundant as a signaller twice, I feel sorry for you, I truly due, but your bitter, it happened to me, so screw the rest of the railway attitude shines through your every post.
You know NOTHING about being a guard or a driver other than what you have seen as a passenger or on cab ride, yet you profess to know it all.
Borrow a wheelchair for a month after OBS comes in, then your know.....
How is it retrogressive to remove the second employee from the train? Haven't railways always had guards?
I'm sorry about that, I don't actually think you are btw in reality. Maybe return for the comments about being mentally and physically deranged etc? lol
No I'm not bitter, leaving the railway was the best thing I ever did. Awful place, I do not want the shifts or responsibility, I've seen careers and lives ruined in seconds too much. I never wanted to be a driver, that's not to say I have no interest in it. I know the rules that apply to being a driver, and know or have been related to drivers. I have listened to many of their problems, some are valid, others less so, and admired their dedication. I do not know everything about their job, or ever claimed to. I understand how railways operate, the pitfalls and problems. It's not screw the railway at all, it's just an alternative point of view. A look at how things things work for another point of view which train crew do not have. Please remember DOO affects Guards, Drivers, Signallers, Platform staff.
I don't want to drone on, I have *an* opinion, not *the only* opinion. Time to let others get their points across now...
Apology accepted, but not sought or required, I bear no harsh feelings or trauma about being slagged off. I dish it out sometimes, I can take it back
I think that the best thing us railwayworkers should do is accept that mcnulty will come in and accept that very few of us will be railwayworkers, then those nasty greedy rail unions (well the rmt) will be destroyed, everyone will then be happy and have nothing to moan about.
I was on a train involved in an incident which reinforced, to my mind, the absolute necessity for there being at least two members of staff on the vast majority of services.
The train I was on today was a traditional driver/guard operated service and shortly after departure from an intermediate station the guard came over the PA to request anyone with medical knowledge or training to make themselves known to him in the middle of the train.
Whilst the guard was able to deal with the medical emergency (helped by an off-duty doctor) the driver took the train forward to the next station where the train was promptly met by paramedics and police who removed the passenger from the train.
Whilst this was ongoing the guard was also able to keep the remaining passengers informed and liase with the emergency services (until the Network Rail MOM arrived at least) whilst, as far as I'm aware, the driver coordinated with railway control.
If this train had been truly DOO with only the driver on board then the whole situation would most likely have worked out very much differently.
The first time a member of railway staff (who could coordinate things) would have known about it is when someone pulled the emergency cord, which on the stock we were on, would have just dumped the brake meaning we would have ended up stopped in the middle of nowhere rather than an easily accessible station. Getting the message out that medical assistance was required would have taken longer. Communicating the situation to passengers would have been impossible as the driver would be busy dealing with the medical emergency situation, trying to coordinate getting the train met by emergency services and trying to keep railway control informed of what's going on.
Whether or not the second member of staff is safety critical and no matter who does the doors a second member of staff on nearly every service is vital as far as I'm concerned. My experience today just unarguably proves that.
And yes an email to the relevant TOC praising their staff will be on its way shortly.