Southern Railway much improved?

[PGAT]

Would just be easier to use the GX paths and stop additionally at Clapham and East Croydon

 

[blelic]

Would just be easier to use the GX paths and stop additionally at Clapham and East Croydon

Probably, and I think most people except the government would like that.

 

[modernrail]

It just seems odd to me that Southern’s mainline doesn’t really have a proper Southern service at all. Instead, to maintain the GX as an express from the airport you have a service that misses the key interchange at East Croydon.

I suppose the timetable might be clockface but in the hour I turned up there was a long gap before anything that wasn’t stopping in quite a lot of places.

Then you have a board with the GX departure on it, telling you it is a GX service and so tickets marked Southern are not valid on it, which again seems odd as it used to be Southern’s premier route. How would you have a ticket marked ‘Southern’ on it from Brighton to London on it anyway if there is no such thing. It also suggests you need a GX ticket (because it is making clear it is a GX service) and it warns you in vague terms that other ticket types might not be valid. All very, very confusing.

As an aside I also assume split ticketing does not work on the GX service because it would trigger the premium fare from Gatwick to London?

 

[andos]

I live in Oxted and have the choice of the East Grinstead to/from Victoria, London Bridge to/From Uckfield or Thameslink. Southern-wise its a game of two halves.

The Victoria service is generally pretty good and has improved in reliability. I think the 377s are among the most comfortable commuter trains in the country as long as you avoid the 3+2 seats. The only annoying thing with Victoria is a few random gaps where the service is hourly during the week - some missing trains never put back from pre-covid.

The Uckfield service on 171s is much worse than it used to be. The frequency was cut post thameslink programme (removing the half hourly shuttle) and cut even further post covid and it has never recovered. There's a two hour gap in the evening between the 2107 and 2307 which is ridiculous. I feel sorry for the people living south of Hurst Green who rely on it as it is not uncommon for people to be stuck waiting at Oxted for two hours if there is a cancellation. They also made all the trains shorter so sometimes they can be extremely crowded in the peak, although they are pretty comfortable when you do manage to find a seat. I usually avoid them in favour of Thameslink during the peak as I'm guaranteed a seat.

 

[blelic]

How would you have a ticket marked ‘Southern’ on it from Brighton to London on it anyway if there is no such thing.

As far as I’m aware the only ticket marked with this restriction (other than AP tickets) is the Daysave! Hardly worth making a big deal about not using ‘Southern only’ tickets when this is the only one to exist. Ideally, the Gatwick Express would be replaced with an equivalent Southern service, stopping additionally at ECR and CLJ though.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Ideally, the Gatwick Express would be replaced with an equivalent Southern service, stopping additionally at ECR and CLJ though.

That would not be an ideal outcome.

 

[blelic]

That would not be an ideal outcome.

For most people it would be preferable.

 

[Baji]

southern used to run a lot more services (2018) and now it seems like everything has reduced. Does southern have less drivers.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

For most people it would be preferable.

Define most people.

 

[PGAT]

southern used to run a lot more services (2018) and now it seems like everything has reduced. Does southern have less drivers.

They have to comply with the DfT’s orders to cut costs

 

[blelic]

Define most people.

Those who live in Brighton and wish to travel to the South West via CLJ. Anybody that travels between Gatwick and Victoria but pays the GX premium price without meaning to (so most that do). People that live in ECR, or those from BTN and HHE that will benefit from increased services to ECR. I can’t think of a group that would really lose out by replacing GX with a similar SN service.

 

[PGAT]

And if GTR still wanted to charge premium fares they could just bring back the Victoria - Gatwick shuttle. In fact, this is already what happens on Sundays

 

[Sonic1234]

As far as I’m aware the only ticket marked with this restriction (other than AP tickets) is the Daysave

There are a few available around Hampshire, presumably to avoid sharing revenue with SWR. But none, other than Advances, around the Brighton area.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There are a few available around Hampshire, presumably to avoid sharing revenue with SWR. But none, other than Advances, around the Brighton area.

Bonkers it matters no more which operator the revenue goes to in fact they keep telling us ticketing needs to be simplified

 

[Bald Rick]

Problem is do we even know what % of our paid NI tax actually does go to the NHS. If at least 50% of everyone's paid NI tax went directly to the NHS I'm pretty sure we'd not be talking about cuts etc.

Off topic, but if 50% of everyones paid NI contributions (including the employers NI contributions) was used to fund the NHS, then the N.h.s would be decimated.

NI contributions collected by HMRC for the U.K. in the 2022/23 financial year was £176bn.

In the same year the budget for NHS England was £153bn. NHS Northern Ireland is £8bn. The figures for Scotland (£18bn) and Wales (£10bn) both include social care as well as health, but health will be by far the largest proportion (in England, the NHS took 85% of the combined Heakth and social care budget of £180bn)

So, the NHS ‘U.K.’ costs around £185bn.

 

[Bishopstone]

Goodness, four pages in, and we’re back to the campaign for slower trains between London and the UK’s second largest airport.

Thin end of the wedge. Concede East Croydon and Clapham Junction, and the Redhill mob will want their calls (also a junction), whilst down the line, Three Bridges and Burgess Hill will make their cases as growing population centres, on the Brighton extensions.

If all the famous thespians who used the Brighton Belle in the ‘60s were still alive today, they’d be turning in their graves.

 

[yorksrob]

Off topic, but if 50% of everyones paid NI contributions (including the employers NI contributions) was used to fund the NHS, then the N.h.s would be decimated.

NI contributions collected by HMRC for the U.K. in the 2022/23 financial year was £176bn.

In the same year the budget for NHS England was £153bn. NHS Northern Ireland is £8bn. The figures for Scotland (£18bn) and Wales (£10bn) both include social care as well as health, but health will be by far the largest proportion (in England, the NHS took 85% of the combined Heakth and social care budget of £180bn)

So, the NHS ‘U.K.’ costs around £185bn.

If you increased NI take to £185bn and reallocated it to the private sector as compulsory insurance, you would transform public finances beneficially in a second

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Those who live in Brighton and wish to travel to the South West via CLJ.

Does that outrank the number of people wishing to travel to Victoria?

Anybody that travels between Gatwick and Victoria but pays the GX premium price without meaning to (so most that do).

Considering the loadings of normal Southern-branded services compared with GX loadings, that won't be "most people"

People that live in ECR,

Do they not have enough capacity at present?

or those from BTN and HHE that will benefit from increased services to ECR.

Does those travelling from BTN to ECR outrank the number of people wishing to travel to Victoria? Do the people from Haywards Heath not cope with the 8tph to ECR?

 

[modernrail]

There are a few available around Hampshire, presumably to avoid sharing revenue with SWR. But none, other than Advances, around the Brighton

Goodness, four pages in, and we’re back to the campaign for slower trains between London and the UK’s second largest airport.

Thin end of the wedge. Concede East Croydon and Clapham Junction, and the Redhill mob will want their calls (also a junction), whilst down the line, Three Bridges and Burgess Hill will make their cases as growing population centres, on the Brighton extensions.

If all the famous thespians who used the Brighton Belle in the ‘60s were still alive today, they’d be turning in their graves.

Goodness, four pages in, and we’re back to the campaign for slower trains between London and the UK’s second largest airport.

Thin end of the wedge. Concede East Croydon and Clapham Junction, and the Redhill mob will want their calls (also a junction), whilst down the line, Three Bridges and Burgess Hill will make their cases as growing population centres, on the Brighton extensions.

If all the famous thespians who used the Brighton Belle in the ‘60s were still alive today, they’d be turning in their graves.

No we are not. Keep the GX as a GX. It has turned into a not GX. It has turned into a Brighton to London service, it is a GX no longer. It sets off from Brighton as a Southern service in GX colours and then becomes a GX service at G. At Victoria it sets off as a hybrid GX/Southern service and at G becomes a non-GX. GX fares only exist between G and Victoria.

Meanwhile customers from Brighton are denied interchange possibilities that used to exist, reducing the usability of some of the services, making the overall service less attractive.

The BB guys would be turning in their grave at the Brighton Express stopping at a down at heel, 2nd rate and overcrowded airport and at being forced to board a train upon which first class is not an armchair but the same chair as all the others.

 

[43066]

If you increased NI take to £185bn and reallocated it to the private sector as compulsory insurance, you would transform public finances beneficially in a second

You’d probably also massively improve the standard of care, as has been the experience elsewhere.

Nowhere else in the developed world has chosen the same funding model as the NHS. There’s a reason for that…

 

[ThameslinkUser]

possibilities

It is 1 possibility (Clapham Jn) and that can be resolved with 1 additional same-platform change. Not exactly onerous.

 

[modernrail]

It is 1 possibility (Clapham Jn) and that can be resolved with 1 additional same-platform change. Not exactly onerous.

My personal view is that it is absolute nonsense that no Brighton service stops at the biggest interchange station on the Southern Network. Nonsense.

Southern seem to agree with me this week.

 

[43066]

at the biggest interchange station on the Southern Network

Is that not Clapham Junction?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

My personal view is that it is absolute nonsense that no Brighton service stops at the biggest interchange station on the Southern Network. Nonsense.

Noted, but I personally disagree. Having been commuting on the 1As you've mentioned this week, I've yet to see someone travelling further than East Croydon when going to/from Clapham Junction.

 

[PGAT]

Is that not Clapham Junction?

It is Clapham Junction

 

[modernrail]

Noted, but I personally disagree. Having been commuting on the 1As you've mentioned this week, I've yet to see someone travelling further than East Croydon when going to/from Clapham Junction.

You must have bloody good eye sight if you are managing to track every single person on every single train you have caught this week. Give MI5 a shout - they need people like you!

 

[ThameslinkUser]

You must have bloody good eye sight if you are managing to track every single person on every single train you have caught this week. Give MI5 a shout - they need people like you!

As opposed to your thermal imaging satellites tracking the trains' passengers?

 

[43066]

It is Clapham Junction

I misread that sorry - in which case I agree with @modernrail

 

[PGAT]

In fairness, rough passenger load data can be found on the Southern website

 

[modernrail]

If a crack hourly Brighton Belle with stock worthy of the title is an option though - to be clear, I am extremely up for that and will happily take my chances jumping out at Clapham Junction.