Southern, Thameslink & Great Northern 'Not On Strike' Details

[Capvermell]

Does anyone know if the strike on 16th March 2023 will be a complete stop of all GTR services or will there be a limited timetable. I need to travel from Brighton to East Croydon. Online timetables don't seem to have been updated yet.

Any help appreciated. Thank you.

Well it means no services at all on our line from Epsom all the way to Horsham whatever happens as it seems that our train services are regarded as dispensable and only keeping limited services going on the Gatwick Line is thought to be at all important......

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Does anyone know if the strike on 16th March 2023 will be a complete stop of all GTR services or will there be a limited timetable. I need to travel from Brighton to East Croydon. Online timetables don't seem to have been updated yet.

Any help appreciated. Thank you.

Timetables won't be uploaded until Friday. Should be the same timetable as previous NR strike days for GTR.

 

[Watershed]

Does anyone know if the strike on 16th March 2023 will be a complete stop of all GTR services or will there be a limited timetable. I need to travel from Brighton to East Croydon. Online timetables don't seem to have been updated yet.

Any help appreciated. Thank you.

There will be services, likely running to the same timetable as the last RMT strike day. You can see a list of Brighton departures on the last strike day here - there was a half-hourly service to both Victoria and London Bridge, both calling at East Croydon.

The finalised strike day timetable will likely only be published 3-4 days in advance.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

There will be services, likely running to the same timetable as the last RMT strike day. You can see a list of Brighton departures on the last strike day here - there was a half-hourly service to both Victoria and London Bridge, both calling at East Croydon.

The finalised strike day timetable will likely only be published 3-4 days in advance.

It will be in systems on Friday.

 

[Watershed]

It will be in systems on Friday.

What a luxury!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The signaller side of the strike is now off, which may change things somewhat?

Hopes of end to rail strike row as workers vote on pay offer

The new offer equates to a pay rise of up to 14.4% for the lowest paid workers.

www.bbc.co.uk

The RMT union has suspended all industrial action at Network Rail after receiving a new pay offer.

Members at the organisation, which employs maintenance workers and signallers, were due to walk out on 16 March alongside train company staff.
Members of the RMT have been striking for months in a long-running dispute over pay, jobs and conditions.

If workers employed by train companies do take part in the strikes next week there will still be disruption.
But the impact is likely to be less extensive than if Network Rail staff were also walking out.

An RMT spokesperson said: "The RMT National Executive Committee has taken the decision to suspend all industrial action on Network Rail following receipt of a new offer from the employer. Further updates will be given on all aspects of the national rail dispute in the coming days."

Network Rail chief executive Andrew Haines said: "We are relieved for our people, passengers and freight customers that industrial action in Network Rail has now been suspended. We look forward to further information on plans for a referendum."

 

[PGAT]

They haven't released the timetable yet but typically there are 2tph from Victoria to Brighton (stopping at East Croydon). I imagine it will be the same.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They haven't released the timetable yet but typically there are 2tph from Victoria to Brighton (stopping at East Croydon). I imagine it will be the same.

with the strike off it better be back to normal - the industry has been given a break and it needs to show it can deliver

 

[infobleep]

with the strike off it better be back to normal - the industry has been given a break and it needs to show it can deliver

Strike is only off with Network Rail RMT staff.

I suspect timetables won't be released on Friday as once again planners will now need to devise another timetable as this one will be scrapped.

If only they could have announced the new pay offer and/or other changes sooner, so planners didn't need to spend time devising timetables that now won't be required.

 

[BingBong50]

Many thanks for all your help.

 

[Capvermell]

They haven't released the timetable yet but typically there are 2tph from Victoria to Brighton (stopping at East Croydon). I imagine it will be the same.

What day is this strike on? Nothing about it at www.southernrailway.com and a normal train service is shown from Ockley this coming Friday and the following Friday on their train planning timetables. Or is Southern not affected by this proposed strike?

 

[Capvermell]

www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/industrial-action currently shows:-

RMT strike days - Only travel if absolutely necessary:

Thursday 16 March - See the travel advice on RMT Strike Day below
Saturday 18 March - Service availabililty will be confirmed on Friday 10 March
Thursday 30 March - Service availability will be confirmed as soon as possible
Saturday 1 April - Service availability will be confirmed as soon as possible
Day after RMT strike day

Friday 17 March - See the travel advice for day after strike below
Sunday 19 March - Service availability will be confirmed on Friday 10 March
Friday 31 March - Service availability will be confirmed as soon as possible
Saturday 2 April - Service availability will be confirmed as soon as possible

Overtime bans by Network Rail RMT members will also be in effect from Friday 17 March through to Saturday 29 April which may result in disruption.

 

[Jan Mayen]

The Network Rail strike action has been called off. This will probabley change the service that is planned. (RMT strike action with GTR is still on, I believe)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Strike is only off with Network Rail RMT staff.

yup but TOC staff weren't on strike on 16th so a normal service could be run but no doubt it wont be by some operators based on the last year although i get that some don't just have the planning resources available and some are knee deep in Easter engineering work planning as well.

 

[Capvermell]

yup but TOC staff weren't on strike on 16th so a normal service could be run but no doubt it wont be by some operators based on the last year although i get that some don't just have the planning resources available and some are knee deep in Easter engineering work planning as well.

Isn't it more because the DfT and not GTR and various other train operators receive the ticket revenue so loss of ticket revenue from running less services doesn't bother them as they actually save on the staff wages they save by running a much reduced timetable and/or no services at all from Epsom to Horsham and Three Bridges to Horsham on these strike affected days.

They therefore have no incentive whatsoever to make the effort to revert to normal train service or at least to a better level of service than was planned and every excuse not to bother to make that effort.

 

[infobleep]

yup but TOC staff weren't on strike on 16th so a normal service could be run but no doubt it wont be by some operators based on the last year although i get that some don't just have the planning resources available and some are knee deep in Easter engineering work planning as well.

Ok. I lose track as you which staff are on strike in which dispute.

I guess I need a table of all TOCs and other bodies down one side and unions across the other and a mark against who is on strike against who.

Isn't it more because the DfT and not GTR and various other train operators receive the ticket revenue so loss of ticket revenue from running less services doesn't bother them as they actually save on the staff wages they save by running a much reduced timetable and/or no services at all from Epsom to Horsham and Three Bridges to Horsham on these strike affected days.

They therefore have no incentive whatsoever to make the effort to revert to normal train service or at least to a better level of service than was planned and every excuse not to bother to make that effort.

If staff are not on strike then they won't save on staff wages, unless you are referring to overtime wages.

 

[Bald Rick]

with the strike off it better be back to normal - the industry has been given a break and it needs to show it can deliver

The Network Rail strike action has been called off. This will probabley change the service that is planned. (RMT strike action with GTR is still on, I believe)

the service planned for TOCS that are still in the dispute will remain as that planned for when NR was involved (Perhaps with a couple of exceptions). This is certainly the case for GTR who will not change their plans. There’s not time to replan, and in many cases the service provided was (is) limited by TOC staff availability, not NR.

It will be available in journey planners on Friday, perhaps with a couple of exceptions.

yup but TOC staff weren't on strike on 16th

Yes they are, and always were. The 14 DfT TOCs that is.

I guess I need a table of all TOCs and other bodies down one side and unions across the other and a mark against who is on strike against who.

It’s fairly simple now. Assuming the RMT vote to settle the NR Dispute, it is ‘just’ RMT with the 14 TOCs funded by the DfT, and ASLEF with 12 of them (ie the 14 excluding SWR nor c2c, but does include island line and SWR depot drivers).

 

[infobleep]

It’s fairly simple now. Assuming the RMT vote to settle the NR Dispute, it is ‘just’ RMT with the 14 TOCs funded by the DfT, and ASLEF with 12 of them (ie the 14 excluding SWR nor c2c, but does include island line and SWR depot drivers).

I'm sure I heard 17 on the radio but I assume that is incorrect as they are counting brands as companies.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm sure I heard 17 on the radio but I assume that is incorrect as they are counting brands as companies.

yes, there is often confusion regarding Thameslink/ Southern / Great Northern / Gatwick Express. And sometimes Stansted Express, and Heathrow Express.

 

[infobleep]

Would anyone happen to know when strike timetable info might make it to places such as Travelline and/or Google Mapd? Travelline at least are not up to date yet.

 

[Capvermell]

Would anyone happen to know when strike timetable info might make it to places such as Travelline and/or Google Mapd? Travelline at least are not up to date yet.

I would stick to Google Maps who certainly do have the train running details updated before the actual strike days take place.

 

[Skimble19]

I would stick to Google Maps who certainly do have the train running details updated before the actual strike days take place.

Google Maps is not the best choice for strike days, you’re better off with TOC websites or a site like Real Time Trains on those.

On previous strike days Google Maps has had a tendency to display the odd train that shouldn’t be there. Whilst it’s fine for normal days, I’d avoid it on strike days if you’re relying on it to get somewhere, especially towards the end of service when knowing what time the last train is can really matter.

 

[MikeWM]

We were due rail replacement buses on Saturday between Ely and Cambridge. Are they likely to (a) not run at all, (b) run for similar hours to when the trains elsewhere will be running, or (c) run all day as originally planned?

 

[Capvermell]

We were due rail replacement buses on Saturday between Ely and Cambridge. Are they likely to (a) not run at all, (b) run for similar hours to when the trains elsewhere will be running, or (c) run all day as originally planned?

Its hard to know with Rail Replacement Buses as they get booked ages before during the planned engineering works and then don't always seem to be withdrawn even when the train services themselves are later cancelled.

In Jan and Feb 2022 when Southern decided not to run trains south of Dorking to Horsham after 7pm on weekdays due to Covid driver shortages the evening rail replacement bus services still ran on those weekdays that they had already been booked for months ahead because train services would originally have been due to run those days and hence be replaced by buses if they didn't run due to the engineering works.

This meant I could still come back late from London on the small number of days in Jan and Feb 2022 that rail replacement buses ran on weekday evenings down to Holmwood, Ockley and Warnham.

 

[infobleep]

Google Maps is not the best choice for strike days, you’re better off with TOC websites or a site like Real Time Trains on those.

On previous strike days Google Maps has had a tendency to display the odd train that shouldn’t be there. Whilst it’s fine for normal days, I’d avoid it on strike days if you’re relying on it to get somewhere, especially towards the end of service when knowing what time the last train is can really matter

The thing is I wished to combine buses with trains.

 

[MikeWM]

GN appear to have removed all the Ely-Cambridge rail replacement buses from the timetable for Saturday at some point in the last 24 hours. How helpful of them.

There's still an hourly GA and an hourly XC bus in the planners - are they likely to survive? And if they do, they're likely to be severely overcrowded :-/

--

Edit a day later : different GN buses have now appeared. Half-hourly from about 0730 until around 2100 - so not as good as a general Saturday, but rather better than the 'usual' strike service when the last time you could leave Cambridge was before 1730. GA and XC buses still there too.

 

[bicbasher]

We've been left with no RRB's on Saturday at Forest Hill and stations between New Cross Gate and West Croydon. London Overground aren't running any trains on the whole ELL/SLL this weekend with the plan being that the 2tph Southern service would operate between London Bridge and Victoria serving the busier stations, but it never runs on strike days.

As Southern are responsible for RRB's south of New Cross Gate, there's absolutely nothing, although London Overground already arranged RRB's between New Cross Gate and Dalston Kingsland and Canada Water to Clapham Junction. Why the responsibility for the West Croydon/Crystal Palace section wasn't transferred to London Overground/Arriva Rail London I don't know?

 

[infobleep]

Given there is engineering works closing London Victoria, to East Croydon, ca I travel via the London Underground this Saturday or are they not allowing people to do that due to the strike?

The engineering works page says this:

No Gatwick Express / Southern trains to / from London Victoria on Saturday 18 March
Date:
18 March - 18 March 2023 11:59 PM
Routes affected:
Gatwick Express / Southern services to / from London Victoria
Engineering work is taking place at Clapham Junction, closing all lines between Clapham Junction and London Victoria.
No Gatwick Express trains will run. No Southern trains will run to / from London Victoria.
Trains that usually run between Brighton / East Grinstead / West Croydon (via Crystal Palace) and London Victoria will be amended to run to / from London Bridge instead.
Industrial action is planned for 18 March, more information on this can be found here.
Check before you travel:
You can plan your journey using the National Rail Enquiries Journey Planner

Planned Changes to Train Times | Southern Railway

See if there are any improvement works planned for the Southern network that will affect your journey.

www.southernrailway.com

They link through to National Rail Enquries and that eventually leads to this page

Changes to train times​

Last updated:
Description

Welcome to the Official source for UK trains | National Rail

You've found the gateway to Britain's national rail network. The portal to rail travel, including train times information, fares enquiries; promotions; and ticket info.

m.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[JonathanH]

Given there is engineering works closing London Victoria, to East Croydon, ca I travel via the London Underground this Saturday or are they not allowing people to do that due to the strike?

Where are you hoping to use the underground on your journey? How does it help with a journey between Clapham Junction and East Croydon? Surely it depends on the ticket held.

If you have a ticket not normally valid on the underground, and you believe there to be ticket acceptance in place, you will need to make your case to the barrier staff.

 

[infobleep]

Where are you hoping to use the underground on your journey? How does it help with a journey between Clapham Junction and East Croydon? Surely it depends on the ticket held.

If you have a ticket not normally valid on the underground, and you believe there to be ticket acceptance in place, you will need to make your case to the barrier staff.

Train from Clapham Junction to London Waterloo. Underground from London Waterloo to London Bridge and then train to East Croydon. Alternative is walk to London Blackfariers.

I've done it two or three times this year so far during engineering works and it is what they recommend as a route.

This time they are suggesting the underground for the Shepherds Bush engineering works, which is on Saturday and Sunday but nothing for the London Victoria one.

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So on Twitter, today [Saturday], via the Southern Twitter account, if I could go via London.

Eventually they said I would need to check with SWR and although they were included in the Tweet I've heard nothing back. So far just silence. So I still don't know if ticket acceptance is allowed. I did point out that I beloeve it is Southern [technically GWR] who arrange this.

Actually I have now found the Tweet confirming ticket acceptance. Twitter usnt great at times for locating replies. This is great news.