SPADs and effects on employment

[Nick82]

Would anyone be able to comment on my question regarding if having a SPAD on your record would effect any future prospect on employment with another company if your looking to change TOCs regardless on catogary of SPAD and the circumstances around the incident be it depot, Shunting or maim line ect

 

[sw1ller]

Put simply - yes. It will be detrimental. However, this doesn’t mean it’s the end in terms of changing TOCs.

I would imagine trying to get in one of the big companies (virgin, Eurostar etc) would be very hard to impossible but I know others that have changed to the regional TOCs.

End of the day, 2 people go for the job, they both score the exact same in employability (keeping it simple!) and one has a SPAD but the other doesn’t........ simple really.

 

[_toommm_]

It also depends on what type of SPAD incident - category B SPAD (now known as a 'Technical SPAR') or a catgeory C SPAD (Signaller SPAR) would be more preferable than a category A SPAD

 

[Class2ldn]

If it's not a cat A then it's not anything to worry about, don't know if they even go on your record unless it's a Cat A.

 

[mitch.swiggins]

EVERYTHING goes on your record. if you have a SPAD(or any other safety of the line incident) the issue will be how much time has passed since you had the incident. if it's been years with no other incidents then it shouldn't be a problem. if it was fairly recent, or you have multiple incidents) then it could be an issue. another TOC wouldn't want to "import the risk".

 

[Class2ldn]

I've had 2 signals go back on me and passed them and they certainly are not on my record. Cat A is different but a spad b or c wouldn't affect other employment

 

[driver9000]

None of my 'cat B' (as was) SPAD are on my record nor were they ever mentioned. When you move TOC you fill in a form detailing your safety of the line record, this must be filled in fully and honestly because they will check it against your file. A cat A SPAD doesn't mean you are unemployable by another TOC but they will want to look into it especially if it is within the last 5 years.

 

[R Trevithick]

This must be different from TOC to TOC as mine show (though not specifically written as cat B spads) as a “signal irregularity” - not that any of my DTMs knew what that meant -
And as a “signal reversion”

Pretty much everything on ours even down to wring route offered - not taken

 

[MichaelAMW]

This must be different from TOC to TOC as mine show (though not specifically written as cat B spads) as a “signal irregularity” - not that any of my DTMs knew what that meant -
And as a “signal reversion”

Pretty much everything on ours even down to wring route offered - not taken

I would have thought there is a difference between what is simply logged as an incident that you have been involved with, and a "record" that might be passed on to another employer. I would bet a good few quid that, e.g., Driver9000's cat B SPADs are recorded very carefully but only for the internal purposes of the TOC.

 

[R Trevithick]

I have no doubt that you are right. I wasn’t trying to imply anyone was wrong just that even though you do not have to disclose them they still appear on your record.
I have a copy of mine and they are definitely there.

 

[mitch.swiggins]

I stand by my previous post - whether you have been fully exonerated or not, everything goes on your record. that said, I fully agree with what driver9000 said - a cat A SPAD doesn’t mean that another TOC wouldn’t take you on, particularly if it’s been a few years since the incident.

 

[bramling]

I stand by my previous post - whether you have been fully exonerated or not, everything goes on your record. that said, I fully agree with what driver9000 said - a cat A SPAD doesn’t mean that another TOC wouldn’t take you on, particularly if it’s been a few years since the incident.

There's a few myths about SPADs and the like. There will be paperwork for any kind of incident a driver is involved in, however only a Cat A SPAD would be held against the driver. Other categories of SPAD certainly shouldn't be held against, as long as the follow-up procedure was correctly applied and carried out. This does of course rely on people knowing what they are reading, which *should* be a given, but I daresay one can't always totally rely on that.

 

[ComUtoR]

I've lost count of the number of red's I've gone through due to a signal going back. NONE are on my record. My record would be very long if that was the case. I don't even think that other Cat SPADS are recorded. I could find you a historic list of every single Cat A from around 1985 onward but no others.

 

[_toommm_]

I've lost count of the number of red's I've gone through due to a signal going back. NONE are on my record. My record would be very long if that was the case. I don't even think that other Cat SPADS are recorded. I could find you a historic list of every single Cat A from around 1985 onward but no others.

They're definitely recorded - ultimately it's an operational incident (saying SPAD should gauge quite a strong reaction from anyone on the railway) and these things need to be investigated to ascertain the type of SPAD and the ultimate cause. Whether they're flagged up on ones file or not is a different matter and I'm sure every TOC handles it differently.

 

[Dieseldriver]

It also depends on what type of SPAD incident - category B SPAD (now known as a 'Technical SPAR') or a catgeory C SPAD (Signaller SPAR) would be more preferable than a category A SPAD

Cat Bs and Cs more 'preferable' largely down to the fact that the Driver is blameless... There would be absolutely no issue having a technical SPAD (I've had a few and have had absolutely no problem in gaining employment with another company) as they are not the Drivers fault.
Category A SPADs on the other hand are massively detrimental and realistically, you will potentially have issues moving TOCS for the rest of your career (obviously some drivers with Cat As on their record have moved companies but most companies would shy away)

 

[AdamL]

A small edition from me... I can’t fully remember the definitions and sub categories of each SPaD type but... SPaD Cat A is definitely recorded against a Drivers Safety of the Line Record (and would be passed to a new TOC), but other categories are not recorded as it’s irrelevant for a Driver. In fact, other category SPaDs are now referred to as SPaR (signal past at red - vice danger). Obviously, a SPaD is treated as cat A until determined it’s not - this could take a few seconds to several hours to determine what happened. A Cat A SPaD in general terms means the equipment was functioning properly and the driver made an error or for some other reason, the signal was passed without authority e.g low adhesion. Other category SPaDs are when the equipment ‘did something strange’ or the signal was put back to danger on purpose by the signaller but the Driver was unable to stop in time.

 

[GB]

The old cat D could go against you but reckon they are pretty rare anyway.

 

[_toommm_]

A small edition from me... I can’t fully remember the definitions and sub categories of each SPaD type but... SPaD Cat A is definitely recorded against a Drivers Safety of the Line Record (and would be passed to a new TOC), but other categories are not recorded as it’s irrelevant for a Driver. In fact, other category SPaDs are now referred to as SPaR (signal past at red - vice danger). Obviously, a SPaD is treated as cat A until determined it’s not - this could take a few seconds to several hours to determine what happened. A Cat A SPaD in general terms means the equipment was functioning properly and the driver made an error or for some other reason, the signal was passed without authority e.g low adhesion. Other category SPaDs are when the equipment ‘did something strange’ or the signal was put back to danger on purpose by the signaller but the Driver was unable to stop in time.

Yeah I've already posted about SPARs ages ago...