Special needs children denied free first class upgrades

[MCW]

an article has appeared on my facebook feed and thought how disgusting it really is.

full article is here in a link, however I shall copy and paste the article for users on mobile etc. http://metro.co.uk/2013/08/13/special-needs-kids-told-to-sit-on-train-floor-as-first-class-commuters-dont-want-you-spoiling-their-journey-3922313/?ITO=facebook

Special needs children as young as four were told to sit on the floor of a train rather than in empty first-class seats because they would ‘spoil’ the ambiance of the carriage.

The youngsters from the Stage Right Theatre Group, based in South Lanarkshire, Scotland, were on their way back from a trip to the Edinburgh Fringe festival when they found standard class packed to the brim, meaning they had to sit outside the toilets.

When volunteers asked the train manager if they could move to the near-empty carriage of the CrossCountry train, they were given short shrift and reportedly told the first-class passengers ‘do not need the likes of your children spoiling their journey’.

Even though other families paying the standard fare were allowed into the more expensive section, the female manager would not be swayed.

After repeated polite requests to let them move, she is also said to have told the charity workers: ‘If you don’t stop talking to me, I will throw you all off. Then how will you get back to Motherwell?’

Rebekah Aitken, 25, who runs the group at Carluke Leisure Centre every Sunday, was clearly angered by the treatment of her pupils, aged four to 11, on the service from Edinburgh Waverley.

She told the Daily Record: ‘We were discriminated against because of the disabled kids we had with us.

‘I’m embarrassed for the kids as they were paraded in front of the passengers and made to feel like an inconvenience.

‘The train manager thought they weren’t of the standard to be allowed to sit in the business carriage but she moved other kids and parents, who had paid the same train fare, into those seats.’

Ms Aitken’s Stage Right cohort, Elaine Berry, was equally miffed by their snub, saying: ‘Their memories of what had been a brilliant day are now of her and their train journey home.’

However a spokesman for the Arriva-owned CrossCountry apologised for the children’s mistreatment, adding that it would investigate the incident.

He said: ‘We are sorry to learn of the circumstances of the Stage Right Theatre School on their recent journey.

‘We expect our staff to be polite and helpful at all times and it is extremely disappointing if their behaviour was as described. We will investigate the circumstances as a matter of urgency and will be in touch with them as soon as this is completed.

‘We would like to offer our sincere apologies to Rebekah, Elaine and all the children for the poor quality of their journey back to Motherwell.’

The children’s plight was met with disgust by campaigners, with one going by the name of Skippy McCarthy beginning a change.org petition to Scottish first minister, Alex Salmond, to investigate the discrimination.

He called CrossCountry’s response a ‘worthless apology’ that suggests ‘as time passes, nothing will be done’.

He added: ‘These children lost a day of their lives through the behaviour of an employee of this rail company but, more importantly were shown that they count for nothing.

‘Not only should they be reimbursed for all expenses incurred on that day but they should receive free annual business travel passes for a minimum of 12 months on all Scottish transport facilities.

‘As to who pays for this, they have already paid enough, having been subjected to this humiliating and belittling experience.’

saddened and furious at this kind of treatment, especially since I hae what people would class as an 'invisable' disability.

I have never had problems on cross country services myself but jeez no need for that. Personally I would sack the Train manager if it was me.

 

[asylumxl]

I really can't imagine a member of staff acting like this. Forgive me if I think some parts might be stretching the truth.

It will be interesting to see the outcome, especially if it turns out to be completely true.

 

[Darren R]

It will be interesting to see the outcome, especially if it turns out to be completely true.

Or indeed if it turns out to be completely untrue. It seems difficult to believe, in this day and age, that anyone would come out with such offensive comments. And it seems especially unlikely that someone who works in a customer-facing job would say such things. I originally trained as a journalist many years ago (before I saw sense! ) and every so often I come across a news article that sets the alarm bells ringing because the facts as reported just don't quite stack up. This is one such story. I notice that - despite the fact it happened on a packed train - there is only one quoted source. If such a long, heated and offensive conversation as this (as described in the reports) took place on a packed train, there would be many witnesses. Most of them would be offended and shocked sufficiently to intervene, and several of them likely to report it to the media or on social media. Someone would video it on their phone to upload it later.

When I did my journalistic training, rule number two of 'How to be a Journalist' was: Always treat single source stories with caution - especially when that single source is a disgruntled member of the public.

That said, of course it goes without saying that if there is any foundation to these allegations that the guilty party deserves everything that happens as a result. After thorough investigation and due process.

 

[Goatboy]

I wonder what the other side of the story is? I can't see why the train manager would have said some of those things - it would have served no purpose and the subsequent outcome would have been obvious.

Very easy when its one persons word against another isnt it..

 

[156478]

From my own experience from when I used to work on the railway, you need to be so, so, so careful with what you say with passengers as what is said can be taken down and used against you, then blown totally out of proportion on a complaints form or customer services phonecall from someone with a severe unjustified grudge who wants you sacked, and all of a sudden you are in front of your line manager's own manager and requiring your union rep and fighting for your job.

 

[yorkie]

Sounds like it wasn't declassified. CrossCountry very rarely 'declassify' first class, they don't seem to care how many passengers are standing or sitting on the floor, or who they are. If it was declassified then they could not have been prevented from entering.

Instead, I suspect that the 'other families paying the standard fare were allowed into the more expensive section' were given a free 1st class upgrade. Were those families upgraded after the refusal, or before? If it was before, perhaps all the seats were taken by that point?

So it may not have been discrimination to refuse entry, there's not really enough evidence to say for certain.

If the TM did say what is alleged, then that's obviously a serious matter.

 

[Silv1983]

I don't believe it for a second. When stuck up people don't get their own way: they'll tell any old tripe to the media to try and reap a sense of satisfaction - even at the expense of another human being's career. I have been victim to this for many years in a previous career as a copper.

It wouldn't suprise me if she simple said: "Sorry, first class is for first class ticket holders only". Equality when it suits....

 

[route:oxford]

There is a big difference between a "family" and a "school group" receiving a complimentary upgrade.

 

[Zoidberg]

These children lost a day of their lives through the behaviour of an employee of this rail company

How so? They were meant to be on a train. They were on a train. Sense not it makes.

 

[Starmill]

Keeping in mind that this is THE METRO. Sometimes I feel less intelligent when I put it down than before I picked it up.

However, if words like that DID come out of the mouth of a member of staff to Passengers, regardless of WHO they were, they do not, in my opinion, deserve their job.

I say again, I'm sure it didn't happen quite as the article suggested.

 

[MCW]

Or indeed if it turns out to be completely untrue. It seems difficult to believe, in this day and age, that anyone would come out with such offensive comments. And it seems especially unlikely that someone who works in a customer-facing job would say such things. I originally trained as a journalist many years ago (before I saw sense! ) and every so often I come across a news article that sets the alarm bells ringing because the facts as reported just don't quite stack up. This is one such story. I notice that - despite the fact it happened on a packed train - there is only one quoted source. If such a long, heated and offensive conversation as this (as described in the reports) took place on a packed train, there would be many witnesses. Most of them would be offended and shocked sufficiently to intervene, and several of them likely to report it to the media or on social media. Someone would video it on their phone to upload it later.

When I did my journalistic training, rule number two of 'How to be a Journalist' was: Always treat single source stories with caution - especially when that single source is a disgruntled member of the public.

That said, of course it goes without saying that if there is any foundation to these allegations that the guilty party deserves everything that happens as a result. After thorough investigation and due process.

yes I really should have taken that into consideration on Hindsight.... However, if this is true, did the other members of the public want to get involved, I have witnessed cases of drunks being abusive on buses and trains but no one from the public has dared get involved.

From my own experience from when I used to work on the railway, you need to be so, so, so careful with what you say with passengers as what is said can be taken down and used against you, then blown totally out of proportion on a complaints form or customer services phonecall from someone with a severe unjustified grudge who wants you sacked, and all of a sudden you are in front of your line manager's own manager and requiring your union rep and fighting for your job.

same could be said for any customer service job and again a good point. perhaps the scenario is a case of misinterpretation?

Sounds like it wasn't declassified. CrossCountry very rarely 'declassify' first class, they don't seem to care how many passengers are standing or sitting on the floor, or who they are. If it was declassified then they could not have been prevented from entering.

Instead, I suspect that the 'other families paying the standard fare were allowed into the more expensive section' were given a free 1st class upgrade. Were those families upgraded after the refusal, or before? If it was before, perhaps all the seats were taken by that point?

So it may not have been discrimination to refuse entry, there's not really enough evidence to say for certain.

If the TM did say what is alleged, then that's obviously a serious matter.

This is food for thought. something I just thought of is perhaps that the odd family was on a priv pass?? it has been known that sometimes they will put their own members of staff on non work days in first class to alleviate some standard class seats when its busy, could have been that???

How so? They were meant to be on a train. They were on a train. Sense not it makes.

speak like yoda, you do.

 

[jon0844]

Who publishes the (London) Metro? There's your answer.

As a journalist, alarm bells started ringing straight away. Of course, Joe Public choose to believe stories that suit their views and disbelieve those that don't.

 

[MCW]

isn't it the group who own the Leicester mercury and daily mail and such like who publish the metro anyway??

 

[ModernRailways]

I posted the following onto Facebook about the incident.

What's the problem? They only had standard class tickets. Another family may have been allowed in but that's a bit different to allowing a group of 10 kids in.
The other family shouldn't have been allowed either, but who is to say they didn't pay for an upgrade?
Probably best to wait for the facts though before people start bitching.
And to add not letting 'normal' people in but allowing special needs kids in would also be discriminatory. XC are stuck in a lose-lose situation. You can't let all of standard into first!

Either way some travel vouchers and an apology will be issued. Even if the TM hasn't done anything wrong! Would be better for XC to stand their ground though if the guard hasn't actually done anything wrong.

 

[MCW]

Either way some travel vouchers and an apology will be issued. Even if the TM hasn't done anything wrong! Would be better for XC to stand their ground though if the guard hasn't actually done anything wrong.

as usual, brand damage... as you said even if nothing was done wrong by the TM, it is the case that people will still view things negatively anyway. in the long run, a few free vouchers are nothing compared to a loss of business...

 

[Temple Meads]

as usual, brand damage... as you said even if nothing was done wrong by the TM, it is the case that people will still view things negatively anyway. in the long run, a few free vouchers are nothing compared to a loss of business...

Although where train companies are concerned some people are virtually forced into travelling regardless of the company, and the views they have about that company.

 

[MCW]

Although where train companies are concerned some people are virtually forced into travelling regardless of the company, and the views they have about that company.

yeah that's true...

 

[rdeez]

It does sound slightly suspicious. Maybe a case of, as has been said, first wasn't declassified, and the volunteers simply felt they were entitled to sit in first due to the crowding in standard.

I was on an XC train the other day where two ladies had an argument with the TM because they wanted to sit with their kids in first due to crowding in standard. He patiently explained that they were welcome to upgrade, but that he couldn't let them stay there without paying extra as it would be unfair to those that had. He offered to go through the train with them and try to find them seats close together. They declined, left, and returned a short time later, this time asking to leave their children in first while they went to sit elsewhere. He explained why he couldn't allow this, repeated his earlier offer...off they went again...to return a third time, prompting the exasperated TM to say "You're clearly not listening to me". I suppose it's this kind of remark, though entirely understandable, that can be twisted and blown out of proportion into the kind of story we have here.

Having said that, if it IS true, then obviously it's disgraceful. But I can't see those words being uttered by any TM - unless they fancied unemployment.

 

[alex17595]

'Not only should they be reimbursed for all expenses incurred on that day but they should receive free annual business travel passes for a minimum of 12 months on all Scottish transport facilities.'


Seriously, I think the truth has been stretched a lot in this whole thing. No self respecting member of customer facing staff would come out with a burst like that. They probably will get compensation anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
also do you have a link?

 

[thelem]

School groups aren't exactly known for keeping quiet and staying in their seats. They would be pretty low down my list of people to upgrade. Even if it was just one or two kids causing trouble, she couldn't exactly upgrade everyone in the group other than those two kids.

The article mentions that they were disabled, but doesn't mention how their disabilities were relevant to the incident. Presumably just added to the article to get the sympathy vote.

 

[broadgage]

I am inclined to agree with those who doubt the accuracy of the reports.

As many others post, it is most improbable that a railway employee would behave as reported, especialy in front of numerous witneses (none of whom have some forward)

I suspect that first class was not in fact declassified, but that a few passengers either paid for an upgrade, or even already had first class tickets.

I recently witnessed a somwhat similar episode on a FGW HST, the train was in reverse formation at Paddington with first class at the country end.
Being short of time I boarded the end nearest the barriers and walked through the train to first.
Near the buffet was a shool party being denied access to first on the grounds that had only standard tickets.
The leader of the party complained bitterly about me "pushing through" when they had been waiting longer. The leader of the party also stated that they had greater "need" of first class seating than me.
The fact that I paid the first class fare and that they had not was not considered relevant by the school party.

 

[DarloRich]

Whilst I share the concerns of other posters that this story may not be entirely accurate or correct IF there is any grain of truth in the report it shows appalling behaviour by the on train staff that needs to be challenged.

IF the story is true in any way then it is simply appalling and unacceptable to discriminate against disabled children. IF the comments and behaviour are correct then disciplinary action must be taken. I am sorry to sound reactionary but this is 2013 and behaviour of that sort can not stand. I know this wont be popular with my colleagues but such behaviour is not acceptable and needs to be dealt with.

 

[NSEFAN]

Whilst I share the concerns of other posters that this story may not be entirely accurate or correct IF there is any grain of truth in the report it shows appalling behaviour by the on train staff that needs to be challenged.

IF the story is true in any way then it is simply appalling and unacceptable to discriminate against disabled children. IF the comments and behaviour are correct then disciplinary action must be taken. I am sorry to sound reactionary but this is 2013 and behaviour of that sort can not stand. I know this wont be popular with my colleagues but such behaviour is not acceptable and needs to be dealt with.

This is the problem when people who are butthurt go and bleat to the press. They embellish their story and distort it to portray the member of staff and train company as the son of satan. The result for this forum is a lack of trust of what is written in the press. It could actually be the whole story being told is pretty much true, but most of us on here will very much doubt that because certain papers have a history of publishing non-stories when it comes to the railways.

What is even worse is that the TOC will in many cases hand out travel vouchers and an apology, even if nothing has been done wrong on their part. This sets the precedent that if you scream loudly enough, you get what you want, which is fundamentally wrong in my view.

 

[Antman]

'Special needs' can mean just about anything and some people try and label their kids with that tag to get what they want, whether that happened here I obviously don't know.

Would anybody who has paid for first class really want their peace and quiet shattered by (presumably noisy?) kids?

Sounds like a storm in a teacup quite honestly.

 

[MCW]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
also do you have a link?

on mobile and phone it acting up at the mo, but the first post in the topic mate above the quoted article box.

Cheers

 

[YorkshireBear]

This is the problem when people who are butthurt go and bleat to the press. They embellish their story and distort it to portray the member of staff and train company as the son of satan. The result for this forum is a lack of trust of what is written in the press. It could actually be the whole story being told is pretty much true, but most of us on here will very much doubt that because certain papers have a history of publishing non-stories when it comes to the railways.

What is even worse is that the TOC will in many cases hand out travel vouchers and an apology, even if nothing has been done wrong on their part. This sets the precedent that if you scream loudly enough, you get what you want, which is fundamentally wrong in my view.

That makes us look like we always defend railways... but it is just so many non stories.

Remember that Scotrail one where that woman complained about her daughter being left at night on her own when actually she just made it up....

 

[MCW]

Here is another thought.

Lets go with the kids are disabled. Now if there is any ounce of truth in the article, it could be the case that these kids are autistic at which point I would say that's why they can be noisy, they don't always realise what they are doing! On the other hand, kids who are dyslexic, have ADHD or behavioural issues can be listed as 'Special needs' and 'Disabled' as the way things are classified in this area has been blown out of all proportions by people who do not understand such impairments.

 

[DarloRich]

This is the problem when people who are butthurt go and bleat to the press. They embellish their story and distort it to portray the member of staff and train company as the son of satan. The result for this forum is a lack of trust of what is written in the press. It could actually be the whole story being told is pretty much true, but most of us on here will very much doubt that because certain papers have a history of publishing non-stories when it comes to the railways.

What is even worse is that the TOC will in many cases hand out travel vouchers and an apology, even if nothing has been done wrong on their part. This sets the precedent that if you scream loudly enough, you get what you want, which is fundamentally wrong in my view.

I agree, however I trust you also agree that discriminating against disabled children is also unacceptable. IF ( and a big if) that is true it is not acceptable.

 

[edwin_m]

It is possible that the family in First had already complained (justifiably or otherwise) about the behaviour of this party and the train manager had upgraded them as a way of dealing with the problem?

You read that it's a good idea to look and behave in a certain way if you want to be upgraded on a flight (for those flights that still have the option!) and I'm sure if the TM chose to upgrade some people to alleviate overcrowding or some other problem they would choose people least likely to offend those who had paid the full first class fare. If that is what happened then it would pay to be discreet and diplomatic as there is a lot of potential to cause offence.

 

[NSEFAN]

I agree, however I trust you also agree that discriminating against disabled children is also unacceptable. IF ( and a big if) that is true it is not acceptable.

Assuming that the story is completely true, then yes it is a terrible way to treat people. My point was more that, since this section of the press has a reputation for not letting facts get in the way of a good story, that I am inclined to believe that what's written is more likely rubbish, either in part or in full.