• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

St Albans Abbey Platform Height & Train Interior

Status
Not open for further replies.

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
29,466
Location
UK
Having used St Albans Abbey for the first time ever last Sunday, I had to ask about why the platform is so low for the only train that uses it.

Then, upon doing some searching, I found this: http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/content/detail.aspx?releaseid=4576&newsareaid=2

Except, I didn't even notice it when I was there! And looking at the photos, yes, there's less of a gap - but it's still far from ideal.

This is the area where I boarded:

2014-02-09 15.24.25-2.jpg

And this is where the new 'hump' is (by the looks of it, much further down):

DSC_0069.jpg

To be fair; in other photos, the gap looks a lot less but I think that's down to the angle of the photos and possibly a bit misleading.

I realise from the press release that it came down to cost, but why couldn't the hump be bigger and then cover all doors, or at least one hump per carriage? For all the other doors, it's still a big step even for perfectly able bodied people.

And, I had to say that I was quite blown away by how little has been done to modernise the interior. Comfy, but heavily worn, seats - carpeting that has been patched up all over the place, and this...

2014-02-09 11.57.05.jpg

Now how expensive would it be to replace these with something, you know, not almost 13 years old..?!

However, I was impressed by the fact that it only cost £3.15 return to Watford - and the car park was empty. Literally.

Upon leaving to go to Watford, and then on our return, we had the only car in the car park - and there can't have been more than 10 people on the train in either direction. So, a very easy way to get to/from Watford and being able to park almost on the platform.

I presume it's somewhat busier in the week, but overall I was quite impressed with a line that I've never had reason to use before - but expect I'll be using again.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

John Webb

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2010
Messages
3,484
Location
St Albans
Glad you found our little branch line! It is quite busy during the week and the car park is usually quite full Mon-Fri whenever I drive past it.
The biggest problem is the lack of the passing loop that used to exist at Bricket Wood. Such a loop would allow a more frequent service. There have been proposals to reinstate it, but it is very expensive in 'heavy rail' mode, and a proposal to change the line to a light rail/tram system have failed to attract finance.

As to the age of the train carriages, I didn't think 13 years old is particularly ancient?
 

MK Tom

Established Member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
2,438
Location
Milton Keynes
As to the age of the train carriages, I didn't think 13 years old is particularly ancient?

He was talking about the map that still had First Great Eastern on it. The trains are about 25 years old. Which in train terms still isn't all that old, but the LM 321s are starting to look a tad dated. I do find it amusing they coughed up the money to repaint them but not to put up to date posters on the inside.

I took my grandmother to St. Albans before that ramp was put in and she had great difficulty getting on and off the train.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
29,466
Location
UK
At Watford Junction, the platform appears normal. So how many of the other stations along the way are like St Albans Abbey and why the inconsistency?

I know some parts of the Underground at also quite bad for steps up/down, but isn't that down to the use of different rolling stock? This line has one train!

The 321 looks very nice from the outside, but on the inside it looks like they've done virtually nothing to it:

2014-02-09 15.22.46.jpg

Don't get me wrong; the train works, it's pretty quick (bar the gap in service), and even though all the seats are worn (I didn't get a picture of the seat bases) they're comfortable. The carpet IS a mess, as in falling to bits, but it's not the end of the world. I'm really not trying to slag the service off.

But the old connection maps - that's quite odd. As in nobody has thought to stick some newer ones over these at any point in the last 13 years!

Still, on the plus side, anyone that ever thinks to venture on the train to Moorgate to see the old NSE branding, should perhaps take a trip up to St Albans Abbey to get a feel of what the railway was like shortly after privatisation!
 
Last edited:

Muzer

Established Member
Joined
3 Feb 2012
Messages
2,778
Ah, that map looks like a gem! I'll have to go there to get a detailed look at it.

Didn't expect there would be service trains with such an old map!
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
29,466
Location
UK
This 321 has LM posters.. including one to use Twitter for updates.

BTW, on both trips there was a PCSO on board. Is there usually any trouble along the line (anti social behaviour or vandalism)?

It could just be the PCSO using the line to get about, as he did alight before St Albans Abbey, but it does feel like a very isolated line.. with totally empty platforms. Goodness knows how they enforce first class!

On our trip to Watford, there were two girls making sure they knew to say they were 15 if asked and working out their date of birth. They looked at least 18!

Finally, for anyone that fancies the really scenic route - try getting to platform 11 at Watford Junction via the level access route (for wheelchairs, buggies etc). It will take about as long as the train journey itself. ;)
 

Saint66

Member
Joined
15 Dec 2013
Messages
817
Location
Herts
Considering how isolated the line is, as you say, there really isn't any issues that I can remember being reported. I suspect that it was just the PCSO using a quick method of transport.
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,162
At least yours is dated 2001.

The one I ran into two years ago on 321416 was dated December 1996. Hello, LTS Rail!

Perhaps they have updated the posters, just not bringing them forward by enough years. ;)
 

Attachments

  • DSC07452 Coach 71964 Unit 321416.jpg
    DSC07452 Coach 71964 Unit 321416.jpg
    114.5 KB · Views: 108
  • DSC07453.jpg
    DSC07453.jpg
    112.9 KB · Views: 99

Be3G

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2012
Messages
1,599
Location
Chingford
View attachment 17264

Now how expensive would it be to replace these with something, you know, not almost 13 years old..?!

Hah, that really is out of date – in a way it's worse than bb21's older example as it shows the Crosslink service which has long since ceased to exist! In an entirely unrealistic ideal world I wish it still ran actually; I could have made quite a bit of use of it in the past decade.
 

Wyvern

Established Member
Joined
27 Oct 2009
Messages
1,573
Doesnt look particularly high a step to me. Plenty of stations like that.
 

John Webb

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2010
Messages
3,484
Location
St Albans
Ah! Sorry about the 13 years old comment - was relatively early in the morning........

Re the platform height - photos in Stanley C. Jenkins book "The Watford to St Albans Branch" suggest that the platforms were high enough for rolling stock available when the line opened in 1858, but were not adjusted as coaches got bigger.

The existing platform at Watford is a replacement built in the mid-1970s, when the carpark was enlarged and the only access to the extra part was across the alignment of the branch line - so the latter was moved out of the way!
 

davetheguard

Established Member
Joined
10 Apr 2013
Messages
1,849
This 321 has LM posters.. including one to use Twitter for updates.

BTW, on both trips there was a PCSO on board. Is there usually any trouble along the line (anti social behaviour or vandalism)?

It could just be the PCSO using the line to get about, as he did alight before St Albans Abbey, but it does feel like a very isolated line.. with totally empty platforms. Goodness knows how they enforce first class!

On our trip to Watford, there were two girls making sure they knew to say they were 15 if asked and working out their date of birth. They looked at least 18!

Finally, for anyone that fancies the really scenic route - try getting to platform 11 at Watford Junction via the level access route (for wheelchairs, buggies etc). It will take about as long as the train journey itself. ;)

As for enforcing First Class, when I last travelled on the line, back in the summer, there was a member of staff on board who I took to be the Guard, and he was issuing tickets between stations. I assume this is normal, but then again, perhaps it's DOO and normally a bit of a free-for-all on the fares front? I suppose the line could be standard class only in the timetable anyway; but I haven't checked.

By the way, St. Albans is a pleasant sort of town for a day trip especially if you like history (lots of Roman history!) and old buildings. There's no less than 8 pubs in the Good Beer Guide and we had a nice lunch in one of them: The Six Bells in St. Michael's Street, in an attractive 16th C building.

Then there's the interesting branch line to Watford Jcn. on which part of the cult 1957 film "Night of the Demon" was filmed, with Bricket Wood being used in the film to catch a train to Southampton!

And whatever some people say about FCC, what an amazingly frequent train service there is to/from London St. Pancras.
 

PeterY

Established Member
Joined
2 Apr 2013
Messages
1,351
I love the Abbey line. The platform at St Albans is very low. It's quite awkward to get my bike on and off.
I still like looking at the old maps though and Silverlink posters.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
32,139
BTW, on both trips there was a PCSO on board. Is there usually any trouble along the line (anti social behaviour or vandalism)?

Anecdote: One summer Saturday 3 years ago a hoodie teenager was sitting on the platform edge with legs over the edge as the train was pulling in. So I gave him a polite but firm 'you need to get up as the driver will do an emergency stop'. No movement. Tried again, this time less politely. When the train was on the platform ramp, and the driver had stuck the anchors on, the hoodie moved lethargically, then gave me a torrent of abuse. Driver was a little shaken.

Being 6'4", I'm ashamed to say I marched over to give the hoodie the benefit of my learning from time spent with the Doncaster renewals team. Only then did said hoodie de-hood to reveal a 14 year old girl. I felt something like Mike Gatting must have done when receiving Warney's ball of the century. 14 year old girls in St. Albans don't speak like that. She must have been on day release from Watford.
 

Urban Gateline

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2011
Messages
1,651
There are no First Class fares for Watford Junction to St Albans Abbey, except strangely enough a 7 day season ticket!

The line is operated by a Driver and a Conductor, definitely not DOO. Unfortunately most of the stations on the line have no ticket issuing facilities (only St Albans Abbey and Watford North have a TVM) and the stations are quite close together so it is difficult for the conductor to constantly walk the whole train after every stop!

The raised platform at St Albans Abbey is likely to be for easier ramp interface to get Wheelchairs onto the train as the accessible coach is normally the front coach. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread about difficulty of stepping on or off the train, if you ask the conductor they will likely help and even put a ramp down if needed.

I agree the trains are dated, but they seem to be efficient for use on that line, for the short journey comfort is not essential. It is a busy "feeder" service into and out of Watford in the peak times when it connects with trains to and from Euston. (I know as I've seen the crowds come off it in the mornings from the live CCTV feed!)

At certain times of the evening there is a security guard on the Abbey line services just to deter anti-social behaviour and possibly assist the conductor if they are brave enough to check tickets on the last few services!
 
Last edited:

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
8,064
Location
Herts
Used by about a 1000 passengers a day - 321's live on as cheaper than a 350 ! (a shame that the tram scheme and the passing loop options were "unaffordable")

It is a bit of a "free railway" - especially as with Oyster from Watford Jct, there is a tendancy for the savvy users to try and bunk the branch , and then tap in at the Junction. Very pleasant line overall
 

Urban Gateline

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2011
Messages
1,651
It is a bit of a "free railway" - especially as with Oyster from Watford Jct, there is a tendancy for the savvy users to try and bunk the branch , and then tap in at the Junction. Very pleasant line overall

Yes that is my suspicion too, however that could easily be avoided if all the standalone Oyster readers were removed (or simply switched off), forcing passengers to go to the Gateline where they must show a ticket to get to the other side to "touch in" to start their Oyster Journey!
 
Last edited:

Jordy

Established Member
Joined
9 Jun 2005
Messages
8,465
Location
WCML South
Which would prove particularly unpopular with those holding valid tickets wanting to interchange between the Abbey and Euston services, and cause even more congestion at the gateline!
 

Yew

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2011
Messages
6,879
Location
UK
One would hope the stock is in line for a refresh or refurbishment soon though..
 

ChiefPlanner

Established Member
Joined
6 Sep 2011
Messages
8,064
Location
Herts
One would hope the stock is in line for a refresh or refurbishment soon though..

From memory - the 321's were given a bit of attention in / around 2000 , so they are now looking a bit weary internally to say the least ! Probably wait and see what happens when the next batch of LM 350's appears ......
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
31,148
Location
Fenny Stratford
Moan about the platform and train interior yet compliment the price - could there be a correlation? ;)

( at least we got an exterior repaint and internal refresh on our 150’s on the other London Midland SE branch! ;) )
 
Last edited:

Tibbs

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2012
Messages
894
Location
London
Yes that is my suspicion too, however that could easily be avoided if all the standalone Oyster readers were removed (or simply switched off), forcing passengers to go to the Gateline where they must show a ticket to get to the other side to "touch in" to start their Oyster Journey!

Sledgehammer to crack a nut perhaps?

It would also massively inconvenience those (like me) who, travelling Northbound, change at Watford Junction from stations along the DC line.

At that point I suspect that those who hold season tickets would simply not touch out at Watford, depriving revenue between the zonal limit of their ticket and Watford.
 

Urban Gateline

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2011
Messages
1,651
Sledgehammer to crack a nut perhaps?

It would also massively inconvenience those (like me) who, travelling Northbound, change at Watford Junction from stations along the DC line.

At that point I suspect that those who hold season tickets would simply not touch out at Watford, depriving revenue between the zonal limit of their ticket and Watford.

True, there is no ideal solution, maybe having TVM's put in at all stations on the Abbey line and making it part of the penalty fare scheme with occasional RPI stings when a train arrives?
 

Urban Gateline

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2011
Messages
1,651
A very sound idea

Doubt it would happen though as FCC are not considering Oyster for St Albans city station either! Anyway it wouldn't solve the problem of fare evading on the Abbey line as passengers could still just only touch in at Watford Jct if they wanted to.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
20,712
Location
West of Andover
I will swap your 321s for some glorious Pacers ;)

I'm hoping to get this branch line in next weekend when travelling around the London Midland network on a Great escape ticket
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top