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Staff down tools at Manchester Victoria following assault 19/12/2019

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8J

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I'm reading reports online and on social media that Northern dispatch staff at Manchester Victoria have downed tools following an assault on a member of staff. Northern are informing that disruption is due to an Operational Incident.

There was already disruption due to a points failure at Rochdale and a broken down train on platform 13 at Manchester Piccadilly.

The railway in this part of the world is at crumbling point. Firstly I hope that the member of staff is OK and that the person/people involved are caught!

More on twitter and other forms of social media.
 
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syorksdeano

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I'm just reading about this.

Can't blame the staff for walking out, and I'm quite surprised it hasn't happened before now
 

Kendalian

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Yes it’s another meltdown around Manchester tonight. I’m on the 1731 from Piccadilly currently 32 down. Overheard radio message that Victoria now closed. Can’t verify obviously
 

geoffk

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I'm just reading about this.

Can't blame the staff for walking out, and I'm quite surprised it hasn't happened before now
Completely wrong to blame station staff for the situation and even worse to assault one, however frustrated we all are by the current mess. I've been from Halifax to Leeds today and a few cancellations, some late running mostly I think due to staff training issues.
 

syorksdeano

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Completely wrong to blame station staff for the situation and even worse to assault one, however frustrated we all are by the current mess. I've been from Halifax to Leeds today and a few cancellations, some late running mostly I think due to staff training issues.

When I said I'm surprised it hasn't happened before, I meant the staff walking off.

The amount of times I have seen the way some customers speak to the staff, if they had spoken to someone in a pub they would have found themselves on their butts
 

Llama

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It did happen maybe twelve months ago very late one night (just before midnight) after a large group of youths had been sent to Victoria from Piccadilly, by the time they got to Victoria and were told that they had missed their last train they became very abusive so the staff rightly withdrew themselves.
 

The_Train

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Staff are absolutely in the right to down tools (if that's what's happened of course) if they are becoming subject to physical assaults and it's the utter gutter-trash that committed this act that should be the focus of people's annoyance if this has caused them delays to their journey.

I'm sure there is absolutely no-one within the rail industry who heads to work with the sole plan to cause as much disruption as possible. It happens and it happens because we are trying to run a modern train network on archaic infrastructure and yet when we, as a country, plan new build railway systems to meet the modern demands there is uproar about it from certain quarters.

In the main (and there are always some exceptions to the rule), railway staff especially those on the front line on platforms do the job to the best of their ability in difficult circumstances and should NEVER be subject to verbal or physical assault by scummy people who think they have a right to act in any way they like
 

Llama

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The platform dispatch staff at Victoria are generally very good at what they do and especially considering the crowds of people of a certain disposition that they have to deal with all too regularly.

However the lack of action taken to protect the dispatchers (and other staff) and as you say the gutter behaviour of certain members of the public have been allowed to go on for too long. Three weeks ago I heard that a member of staff at Victoria was pushed towards the track in front of a train. It's less than three years since a passenger was killed at Victoria by a Metrolink tram after being pushed towards it by another passenger after an altercation. I've lost count of the number of trains I've seen recently having to be taken out of service due to being a biohazard after some individual has vomited all over. The common denominator is usually drink &/ drugs.
 

nuneatonmark

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There is no excuse for assault or abuse, it cannot be condoned. However, does it mean that all staff have to walk out? I am assuming that is what happened? All the public see are incompetent railway company management who seemingly cannot plan or execute any significant change successfully, staff that have contracts that do not represent reality e.g. Sunday not being a 'working' day and unions who 'seem' to take great pleasure in striking as much as possible due to spurious 'safety' issues which magically disappear when more money is offered. Looking in from the outside, there is no one who really comes out of this with any credit. Network Rail, TOCs, Unions, they are all rubbish and the public are the ones that suffer and the staff at the 'coalface' too, such as this incident. I appreciate that some of it is a 'perception' and everyone can probably point a finger at everyone else, but it really is a complete omni-shambles at the moment and no one seems to be able to do anything about it.
 

Darandio

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However, does it mean that all staff have to walk out? I am assuming that is what happened?

Why shouldn't they?

Bear in mind that they have been putting up with this for quite some time now due to the poor train service provided, this isn't only a nod to passengers to tell them they won't put up with abuse, this is also a nod to management to tell them they've had enough and won't tolerate any more.
 

Llama

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Of course they all needed to walk off. There aren't that many of them on duty anyway, they are extremely vulnerable to abuse in their roles.
 

Aivilo

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To my knowledge this was the second incident this evening so staff collectively went to a place of safety
 

2L70

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When I said I'm surprised it hasn't happened before, I meant the staff walking off.

The amount of times I have seen the way some customers speak to the staff, if they had spoken to someone in a pub they would have found themselves on their butts

Quite often i've felt i would be safer behind a bar serving on a Saturday Night than a train or platform around 8-10pm.
 

Kite159

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Of course they all needed to walk off. There aren't that many of them on duty anyway, they are extremely vulnerable to abuse in their roles.

They are public facing who have had to deal with delays/cancellations to not only Northern but to TPE services, some members of the public are idiotic and see them working hard as "easy" targets to direct abuse, knowing even if they are caught by the police, the courts won't punish them.

It's "Christmas Party" season, so the number of drunks increases this time of year. :(
 

Skymonster

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Good argument for implementing driver dispatch (done from the protection of the cab) and making the platform dispatch staff redundant perhaps!

DUCKS FOR COVER - THE ABOVE WAS A JOKE!

Seriously, there is no excuse for assaults but unless there is evidence of repeated acts and systemic failure of Northern to deal with the situation then everyone walking off the job and causing even more chaos for thousands (with the risk of further inappropriate action against other staff) is over-reaction.
 

Skymonster

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Why shouldn't they?

Bear in mind that they have been putting up with this for quite some time now due to the poor train service provided, this isn't only a nod to passengers to tell them they won't put up with abuse, this is also a nod to management to tell them they've had enough and won't tolerate any more.

Still causes huge problems for thousands more passengers, which risks an unsavoury few taking their anger out on some other poor sod whether on the railway or elsewhere.

If management are not taking action to protect staff (not just posters saying abuse won’t be tolerated, but what about staff having small cameras like some police so their is evidence and pushing assaults through the courts) then this is one area where the union should be involved, rather than wasting time over issues like DOO.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Visible police presence is the answer. In my neck of the woods all major stations regularly have 1-2 BTP on the gateline and we don’t really have a big antisocial problem! I’m staggered that Man Vic doesn’t have at least this on a daily basis.
 

Djgr

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Hmmm. Maybe two sides to the story.


A witness has spoken of what she saw happen at Manchester Victoria this evening that led to the staff walkout.

She said all trains were suspended after a man shouted at a member of staff.

“The man had just recently had an operation on his foot and he had a 10 week old baby.

“He was placed on three wrong trains and then when the right one came, he was on the wrong platform, so when he asked a member of staff to help him they said get a job.

“He went up to one of the workers and told them what had happened and what the delay was.

“All he said was he wasn’t happy, he has a newborn baby and has been passed from pillar to post.

“He did shout but so did the majority of us who have been waiting to get out of the station.”

She said staff then decided to stop working and British Transport Police were called to the incident.
 

fishtastic

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Absolutely unacceptable to have violent incidents towards staff or other passengers, full stop.

Am I suprised it happened at Victoria, no. Nor would an incident at platform 14 at Piccadilly suprise me either.

The delays at Victoria are shocking, and some of the decisions made there seem to be designed to annoy passengers. The one that used to always get me was the 6.30pm Northern stopper to Liverpool, it would pull out if the siding onto platform 3 at around 6.15pm sit there with the doors locked until around 6.28/29pm with passengers getting more and more agitated. I'd always assumed it was because it needed a guard or something but if someone told me it was the staff having bets on whether they could start a fight or cause someone's blood pressure to cause a heart attack, I'd probably accept it as a possibility.

Some of the decisions made on the railways at the moment seem to be a social experiment on how angry people can be made before violence breaks out. A lot of it comes from the disjointed nature of the current system....

What's that your travelling towards Barrow to get the last train out, your train is going to miss it's connection by 5 minutes, do they hold that train, nope. FU, you can wait 30 minutes for a taxi and the take the best part of an hour to travel the 30 minutes it takes by train. This didn't happen under BR.

Your train is cancelled, you need to make a connection, can I have authorisation to travel on another service, no FU.

Train cancelled, need to get a replacement bus, where's the bus going to go from? Any signs? Any staff taking passengers to the location? Any staff directing passengers? No, FU.

I know the above sounds extreme, but the current system has no accountability, if you can find someone they generally point the finger elsewhere, it's always another TOC, or software that doesn't do what it has been doing for the last 20 years.

I travel a lot and so have a good handle on what to do if there's issues. Most people don't, and get basically no useful assistance or information. We have a system were people are happy to hand out penalty fares when listening would be more helpful. One of my members of staff tried to buy a ticket for the next train but the TVM wouldn't sell it so he gets on, no conductor, tried to buy at MCV and yadada penalty fare. Now I know that what happened there is the train was coming soon and it was too late for an advance fair, greyed out that train and the software is too useless to just offer a peak single or something. I've explained to him how to avoid this in the future buy picking the 2nd train and trying to get a day or return. But you can see why the public get frustrated.

Labour had one decent policy and that was nationalising the railways, very popular with the public. I think people understand what's wrong and don't think anything other than radical surgery will fix it.
 

Skymonster

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Well that (Djgr’s comment), if true, certainly puts a different complexion on things...
 
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Llama

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Knowing the amount and vile nature of abuse consistently directed at the platform staff (and others, traincrew cop for it too) I would be very, very surprised if that account (if true) is actually what happened/caused the walkout.
 

js1000

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Apparently it wasn't an 'assault' from someone who was there. Somewhat aggressive individual unhappy with the service. Staff, already frustrated with the chaos through Manchester on a daily basis, decided they had enough and temporarily downed tools. The aggressive passenger was the 'straw that broke the camel's back'. All very odd - and not fair on staff who are being put in difficult situations on a daily basis at Manchester Victoria and Piccadilly. Network Rail and the DfT have a lot to answer for.
 
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Skymonster

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If a staff member really did say “get a job” then it’s the staff member that should be in trouble, not the passenger...
 

js1000

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If a staff member really did say “get a job” then it’s the staff member that should be in trouble, not the passenger...
Hardly surprising though. Don't condone it but could understand if a passenger swore at a member of staff out of frustration due to the constant delays so wouldn't be so harsh on the member of staff if they said that. Let bygones be bygones. But I imagine the staff are absolutely fed-up of the delays they have to deal with on a daily basis at Victoria, Piccadilly etc in an already stressful environment. Cramped platforms, overcrowded trains, consistent delays - patience is wearing thin on the staff side too now. Something has to be done sooner rather than later.
 
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