Staff members when TOCs change

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pt_mad

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What happens to front line members of staff when TOCs change?

Say for exampe in December Virgin lose West Coast to first. Do all dispatcher, guards, ticket sellers etc transfer to first?

What about management? Would team leaders and the next rank transfer?

I presume higher level staff wouldn't be moved. At what level would redeployment stop?
 
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swt_passenger

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Transfer of Undertaking Protection of Employment regulations.

It applies to all employees, across the board, whatever position in the organisation.

What it basically means is that 99.9% of people stay in their existing jobs, whoever they are. If any managers leave it is down to their personal preference, they cannot be forced out either.
 

ainsworth74

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In simple terms everyone goes to bed one day working for VWC and the next day wake up and are working for First West Coast (or whoever).

TUPE is the series of rules that regulate the treatment of staff in situations like this. Just google TUPE.
 

pt_mad

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ahh ok. But what about senior management. I mean surely if the DFT don't want a TOC back then they won't want the same managers running the new franchise.
 

swt_passenger

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ahh ok. But what about senior management. I mean surely if the DFT don't want a TOC back then they won't want the same managers running the new franchise.
As I said earlier, as long as they are employees, they have the same right to transfer as everyone else.

TUPE is not just there for what would usually be referred to as 'the workforce'.
 

Oracle

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In that case the old employers have to make the employees redundant, and/or dish out loads of dosh for ending their contract. The new employers take on anybody subject to their existing conditions. That means that years of service, and all the benefits or burdens that attaches thereto, are taken on by the new employers.
 

pt_mad

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In that case the old employers have to make the employees redundant, and/or dish out loads of dosh for ending their contract. The new employers take on anybody subject to their existing conditions. That means that years of service, and all the benefits or burdens that attaches thereto, are taken on by the new employers.
I see so that top guy at Virgin, is it Chris someone? He will go to whoever gets the next WCML contract? So he may run First West Coast if they get it?
 

pt_mad

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Sorry about all the questions.

So what about when National Express lost east coast. Even top management stayed on with direct rail?
 

Bald Rick

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The new franchise company must take on all employees of the old franchise company.

In practice, some or all of the top team of the franchise are often employed by the owning group rather than the company set up to run the franchise, so these people usually stay with the owning group.

Where the MD and directors are employed by the franchise company (as was the case for the last franchise to change hands) then the new franchise company is obliged to take them on. However you can expect the individuals concerned to keep loyal to the owning group if the latter wants to keep them, say for future franchise bids. Similalrly, those that choose to transfer will normally only do so if the new franchise company wants them; if they elect to transfer when the new company has made it clear they are not part of future plans then on day 1 they would have a 'tea no biscuits' conversation followed by a quick trip to a recruitment consultant.

Also it's Chris Gibb at Virgin. Chris Green left years ago.
 
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D1009

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Transfer of Undertaking Protection of Employment regulations.

It applies to all employees, across the board, whatever position in the organisation.

What it basically means is that 99.9% of people stay in their existing jobs, whoever they are. If any managers leave it is down to their personal preference, they cannot be forced out either.
Depends what you mean by forced out. They can and do usually have a restructuring, meaning that they have to apply for jobs in the new organisation because they are not the same, and can become surplus to requirements and be offered redundancy.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I see so that top guy at Virgin, is it Chris someone? He will go to whoever gets the next WCML contract? So he may run First West Coast if they get it?
If he wants it and they want him. People like him can usually get whatever job there is going.
 

185

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From what I've seen a couple of times, generally business as usual unless the franchise is altered / merged with another.

ATOC passes are not reissued with the new operator name on until they expire in June. Occasionally preparations are made before the change date such as new uniform ordering and major changes to back office staff and management.

Additionally, when a franchises changes from FirstGroup to another company the staff are usually out drunkenly celebrating <D
 

34D

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If he wants it and they want him. People like him can usually get whatever job there is going.
If he is employed by the entity that is being transferred, then "if the new TOC wants him" is irrelevant.

Additionally, when a franchises changes from FirstGroup to another company the staff are usually out drunkenly celebrating <D
Which has happened all of twice? First North Western (which partially became First TransPennine) and First Great Eastern? Doubtless I'll now get shot down in flames for forgetting another one.
 

Eagle

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Which has happened all of twice? First North Western (which partially became First TransPennine) and First Great Eastern? Doubtless I'll now get shot down in flames for forgetting another one.
Anglia Railways. Their parent company, GBR, was bought out by First a year before that franchise ended. (GBR also owned GBRf, obviously, and most of Hull Trains.)
 

KA4C

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What happens when franchise holders change? As has been said staff get a new tie, name badge, DVD's to watch and someone re-inventing the wheel
 

dk1

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What happens when franchise holders change? As has been said staff get a new tie, name badge, DVD's to watch and someone re-inventing the wheel
Exactly ;)

Greater Anglia have even said they are not going to even bother attempting Harmanisation between old Anglia/GE/WAGN crews, after NX failed to get this agreed in 8 years. I dont blame them.
 

michael769

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What can sometimes happen, in other industries is that the very senior execs are (in legal terms) employed by the parent company rather than the subsidiary and so fall outwith TUPE. It kind of makes sense and in some cases the execs will have worked on the franchise from well before the ToC even really existed.

I see no reason why that would not be the case for ToCs.

In reality for the really good execs I suspect both the parent company and the new ToC might be looking to make them job offers....
 

AndrewP

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As already said the TUPE regulations mean that nothing immediately changes for staff. Just turn up for work as normal unless specifically told not to.

Many big companies in service industries see TUPE as one of their main recruitment methods and manage it very well (it can be a very cheap way of getting good, experienced staff).

The key to any successful transfer is communication - tell potential transferees what is going on, how it will affect them and above all be honest otherwise corrosive rumours will start to spread and gain momentum.

Finally working with unions can be a great help with TUPE. Engage with them early and they will help you look after the individuals affected - key as this affects people's lives.
 

Jobsworth

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Don't confuse managers with directors. They are different animals. Managers are employees whereas directors are board appointments on different terms and conditions. Not sure if they are covered by TUPE in any form but I suspect not.
 
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