Standing in First Class

[Eeveevolve]

(although on TPE the constant walking through First Class is only due to the bad design of the train).

Yeh. By that logic, if I am sat in standard coach A, to go to the toilet I would have to disembark and get back on to use the toilet.

 

[island]

I have occasionally (very occasionally) heard requests on Virgin, and East Coast, that passengers with Standard Class tickets should not walk through First Class to disembark (or embark) the train. So other TOC's enforce this as well - at least at times.

Heard that one on a late-running Virgin up train recently; they said it was because it was delaying them setting up the place settings for the return down service.

 

[tannedfrog]

Automatically no, he paid for a first class ticket and travelled in first class (tickets are authority to travel not a guarantee of a seat).

Interestingly I saw a huge EMT poster recently which said that First Class ticket holders have a "guaranteed table", nothing about "guaranteed seats" though!

 

[All Line Rover]

Interestingly I saw a huge EMT poster recently which said that First Class ticket holders have a "guaranteed table", nothing about "guaranteed seats" though!

Where was that? That's definitely interesting!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . I saw a huge EMT poster recently which said that First Class ticket holders have a "guaranteed table" . . . .

presumably some of the print was less than huge, and added something along the lines of "subject to availability"?

I'd agree, though, that a claim such as "Guaranteed, subject to availability" isn't saying much.

 

[tannedfrog]

It might have been Derby station but it's here as well and no mention of availability that I can see
http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/AboutUs/Documents/EMT028DES-WEB.pdf

 

[DaveNewcastle]

From the foot of the penultimate page of text: "Whilst we aim to offer the advertised service, we apologise for any inconvenience caused if we are unable to do so."

 

[Skymonster]

EMT seem to enforce this as well. I was on a late running train to St Pancras and was in danger of missing my FCC onward to Three Bridges. I know they run every 15 minutes, but I had a meeting to attend and thought I'd give it a shot anyway. I walked down to the front of the train to the first coach (1st class) to bail there. En route I passed a member of EMT staff talking to a few other passengers. A couple of minutes later she approached me right at the front and said "now I've just asked you nicely not to stand in the first class vestibule, but you've done it anyway". This really got my goat, both because it's utterly ludicrous not to allow people to disembark from a first class vestibule, and because she hadn't spoken to me at all.

A bit of discretion when there's mitigating circumstances is probably appropriate, but in general good on EMT - I've experienced them do it a few times on HSTs, stopping people from standard pushing past the buffet/kitchen into first, often shortly before arriving at stations. Passengers often do it just to get to whatever part of the train going to be nearest their station's exit, and if that happens to be first they trail on through. It gets quite irritating when volumes of passengers push through First, sometimes selfishly and inconsiderately bashing their bags into passengers sat in first, or sometimes talking to each other loudly and generally disturbing the peaceful nature of the carriages. And if you want to go to the toilet just before a station like Wellingborough or Kettering you sometimes have to forget it if the standard class malitia have moved to doors in first that it just happens to be convenient for them to alight from. First carries a fare premium, and part of that IMHO is not having the First carriages treated as corridors by standard class passengers. The one plus of the 222s is that in first you can sit in the frontmost/rearmost car, which isn't a through route to entry/exit doors.

 

[ALEMASTER]

There is also the fact that often staff are carrying food and drink in the first class area and standard passengers wandering around can be quite disruptive to this service

 

[wintonian]

So looking at the flip-side, Lets say that first class is rammed, but there's space in standard, would a person on a first class ticket get penalised for travelling in standard?

The T&C's for Interrail tickets explicitly states that you must travel in the class of accommodation on your ticket, not doing so leaves you open to having the ticket withdrawn with no replacement per the T&C's

There is also the fact that often staff are carrying food and drink in the first class area and standard passengers wandering around can be quite disruptive to this service

I was boarding at Reading last year on one of the rammed Friday dinner services to Penzance, I had a first class ticket but on trying to board I was shouted at by the guard who pointed in the direction of standard class where I was told to board, I obliged and got in the staffs way as they were trying to serve dinner by moving past the kitchen to take my seat in first class.

Also I had a first class LM ticket once and ended up sitting in standard as I found the seat more comfortable and hardly anyone was one the train.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It might have been Derby station but it's here as well and no mention of availability that I can see
http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/AboutUs/Documents/EMT028DES-WEB.pdf

I noted later in that leaflet it says....

"....with large comfortable seats which have a guaranteed table...."

....which I read as "all [First class] seats have a table" (which they do), but not actually saying a passenger is guaranteed a seat or table. However, the earlier mention of a guaranteed table isn't quite so clear.

 

[wintonian]

I noted later in that leaflet it says....

"....with large comfortable seats which have a guaranteed table...."

....which I read as "all [First class] seats have a table" (which they do), but not actually saying a passenger is guaranteed a seat or table. However, the earlier mention of a guaranteed table isn't quite so clear.

Hmm yes its the seats that are guaranteed a table not the passengers.

and what do EMT do with that strange coach where half is first class and the other half standard, when its standing room only?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I thought that coach was declared standard only in MML days after lots of people were being 'caught in first class'.

 

[Mike395]

I thought that coach was declared standard only in MML days after lots of people were being 'caught in first class'.

It was, and this continued for a short while after EMT took over the franchise too, before making it back into a 1st Class only area

 

[Michael.Y]

On my first First 1st Class bash (work that out!) on Saturday, I boarded at NWP, alighted at SWA, and didn't see a single member of ticket staff. The Customer Host checked my ticket was valid when I went for free vittles, but no-one else. Also, because some broad had hijacked the table upon which I had reserved my seat with every imaginable section of the Saturday Telegraph plus HER free vittles, I sat at a different table to the one I had reserved. Would this have been a problem in an otherwise empty carriage?

 

[Flamingo]

FGW have signs saying that you cannot stand in a 1st class vestibule; must admit I would find this a bit if I was still a guard but some TMs enforce rigorously.

Yes we do

I've had too much **** from commuters going to Reading who are too bloody lazy to walk down the train to find seats, or who chose to run at the last second for a train when they could have caught one five minutes later, to have anything other than a zero-tolerance policy.

First class passengers pay a large supplement for the extra comfort. From a business point of view, we have to ensure as far as possible that they enjoy the journey so they continue to pay the extra.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Also, because some broad had hijacked the table upon which I had reserved my seat with every imaginable section of the Saturday Telegraph plus HER free vittles, I sat at a different table to the one I had reserved. Would this have been a problem in an otherwise empty carriage?

Most guards wouldn't have given a monkeys.

I remember being in a similar situation some years ago, with the exception that I dared to ask to sit in my reserved seat and consequently got a lecture from the guard who apologised to the other person, even though he had picked the only reserved seat in the carriage to sit on.

 

[Flamingo]

On my first First 1st Class bash (work that out!) on Saturday, I boarded at NWP, alighted at SWA, and didn't see a single member of ticket staff. The Customer Host checked my ticket was valid when I went for free vittles, but no-one else. Also, because some broad had hijacked the table upon which I had reserved my seat with every imaginable section of the Saturday Telegraph plus HER free vittles, I sat at a different table to the one I had reserved. Would this have been a problem in an otherwise empty carriage?

Of course, the CH might have said to the TM "Don't worry about that guy who got in at Newport, I've seen his ticket".

Regarding the seat, if you had approached the train-crew, they would gave either asked the lady to tidy up, or found you an alternative seat in the same accommodation as you had booked.