Stranraer

[LNW-GW Joint]

I travel through Stranraer twice a year summer and Christmas. It will be interesting to see what the official travel arrangements are to catch the ferry from Loch Ryan. Normally I catch a train from Preston (PRE) to Glasgow Central then the 1142 service to Stranraer arrives at 1356 to connect with 1430 HSS to Belfast.

If the train was to run into Stranraer as usual they would either have make the ferry later so all the ferry passengers are bussed to Loch Ryan in order to catch the ferry or Scotrail need to re-time the train to leave Glasgow earlier which would cause a knock on effect from passengers travelling from the south.

The new ferries will run a very good timetable from 21 November:
http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/timetable-belfast-cairnryan/

from Cairnryan M-F 0345, 0730 and every 4 hours until 2330
from Belfast M-F 0330 and every 4 hours until 2330

crossing time 2h15m (ie a bit slower than the HSS but much quicker than the old boats) in two identical ships

I assume all these sailings will be accessible to foot passengers.
Just the sort of timetable Holyhead needs.

 

[phil8715]

The timings don't look too bad actually.

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Tapatalk

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The new ferries will run a very good timetable from 21 November:
http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/timetable-belfast-cairnryan/

from Cairnryan M-F 0345, 0730 and every 4 hours until 2330
from Belfast M-F 0330 and every 4 hours until 2330 crossing time 2h15m (ie a bit slower than the HSS but much quicker than the old boats) in two identical ships

I know this is a rail forum, but the reason why Stranraer. Holyhead and Fishguard are railheads is for them to serve the ferry sailings. The ferry service is the important link for travellers. It is up to the train services to co-ordinate their connection links with the ferry sailings.....not the other way around. Especially when there are coach links only too happy to perform this function.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I know this is a rail forum, but the reason why Stranraer. Holyhead and Fishguard are railheads is for them to serve the ferry sailings. The ferry service is the important link for travellers. It is up to the train services to co-ordinate their connection links with the ferry sailings.....not the other way around. Especially when there are coach links only too happy to perform this function.

Trouble is is that there's only so much the railways can do for that: stock, paths, money...

 

[tbtc]

I know this is a rail forum, but the reason why Stranraer. Holyhead and Fishguard are railheads is for them to serve the ferry sailings. The ferry service is the important link for travellers. It is up to the train services to co-ordinate their connection links with the ferry sailings.....not the other way around. Especially when there are coach links only too happy to perform this function.

There are many more "normal" passengers on trains than "ferry" passengers, maybe a fifty seat coach is more suitable for the numbers we are talking about than a five coach train (in the example of Voyagers at Holyhead).

Just because the railway was built to connect with ferries (over) 100 years ago shouldn't compel us to throw resources at this shrinking market whilst we can't meet demand on other (non-ferry) routes IMHO.

 

[harz99]

Scottish Citylink are not at all concerned with the rail service, They seem to run a coach service that connects with ferry sailings, for those travellers wishing to use that mode of transport to visit Northern Ireland. If this service was running at a loss from Edinburgh and Glasgow to Stranraer, due to very low passenger loadings. it would not be in existence.

Its actually a through service from/to Northern Ireland. In practice pax are coached to Belfast port, transferred to the ferry and then met the other side by another coach having had their luggage transferred. Very rarely if ever does the coach travel across on the ferry.

The coach (well certainly the mid morning from Stranraer and evening back from GLC/EDB) is always virtually full, mostly ferry pax and a few day trippers from STR to AYR/GLC on their womble passes (me included).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I know this is a rail forum, but the reason why Stranraer. Holyhead and Fishguard are railheads is for them to serve the ferry sailings. The ferry service is the important link for travellers. It is up to the train services to co-ordinate their connection links with the ferry sailings.....not the other way around. Especially when there are coach links only too happy to perform this function.

Blame Stena, not the railway........................
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I know, that is exactly what I mean, why get the train when the coach goes direct
The total journey time will be about the same, but the coach fare will be more attractive to customers

The same issue applies on some of their other routes, there is no advantage in train journey time and usually this is the determining factor between the two
Example :
£5 by coach for one hour
£12 by train for one hour

No; the determining factor is that the coach is guaranteed to connect with the ferry and the train is not.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I travel through Stranraer twice a year summer and Christmas. It will be interesting to see what the official travel arrangements are to catch the ferry from Loch Ryan. Normally I catch a train from Preston (PRE) to Glasgow Central then the 1142 service to Stranraer arrives at 1356 to connect with 1430 HSS to Belfast.

If the train was to run into Stranraer as usual they would either have make the ferry later so all the ferry passengers are bussed to Loch Ryan in order to catch the ferry or Scotrail need to re-time the train to leave Glasgow earlier which would cause a knock on effect from passengers travelling from the south.

As I understand things if you have a rail/sail ticket you will be bussed/coached from Ayr to the new port, but if you elect to travel independently you will have to get to Port Ryan either from Stranraer or Girvan using local bus or taxi. Trains won't change for ferries and vice versa.

 

[embers25]

The new ferries will run a very good timetable from 21 November:
http://www.stenaline.co.uk/ferry/timetable-belfast-cairnryan/

from Cairnryan M-F 0345, 0730 and every 4 hours until 2330
from Belfast M-F 0330 and every 4 hours until 2330

crossing time 2h15m (ie a bit slower than the HSS but much quicker than the old boats) in two identical ships

I assume all these sailings will be accessible to foot passengers.
Just the sort of timetable Holyhead needs.

Great boat timetable but only 3 have bus connections to Ayr. There is a local bus too from Ayr that may fill the gaps but 3 a day each way is NOT an improvement.

 

[TUC]

Trouble is is that there's only so much the railways can do for that: stock, paths, money...

But what are the pathing conflicts that prevent more flexibility on this line? Yes there is single track working to build in but that aside I can't imagine there's that much other traffic.

 

[rail-britain]

But what are the pathing conflicts that prevent more flexibility on this line? Yes there is single track working to build in but that aside I can't imagine there's that much other traffic.

It's a balance between rolling stock and paths that causes the issue on this route
The timetable was quite intensive in the late 1980s, a mix of Ayr - Girvan and Glasgow - Stranraer services
In general these passed at Kilkerran Level Crossing and the dual services passed at Girvan
This results in a dreadfully erratic timetable frequency

 

[Flying Snail]

Great boat timetable but only 3 have bus connections to Ayr. There is a local bus too from Ayr that may fill the gaps but 3 a day each way is NOT an improvement.

Foot passengers are not carried on the early (03.30/03.45) and late (23.30) sailings except for the 23.30 from Cairnryan on Saturdays, for the football crowds presumably. so there are only 4 sailings that will accept foot passengers. There is no train from Glasgow arriving in Ayr early enough for the 07.30 ferry and with the connection times given a coach from the 21.30 ex Belfast wouldn't arrive in Ayr in time to catch the last train at 23.00

The rail passenger coach connection times are pretty poor towards Ireland with the coach scheduled to arrive at the port 1h35 before the ferry departs. Not so bad in the other direction with a 30min connection. This would be due to them scheduling the coach connection to use just one coach and with the ferry having a 1h45 turnaround time a long wait is inevitable.

 

[harz99]

The rail passenger coach connection times are pretty poor towards Ireland with the coach scheduled to arrive at the port 1h35 before the ferry departs. Not so bad in the other direction with a 30min connection. This would be due to them scheduling the coach connection to use just one coach and with the ferry having a 1h45 turnaround time a long wait is inevitable.

Exactly so; when you look at the connections given online by Stena some bright spark has put the 1142 ex GLC to Ayr rather than the 1130, people with luggage will love coming in on platform 4 and dragging it all over the bridge to get to the forecourt.

Equally interesting will be the new 250 mph train which leaves GLC at 1530 and gets to Ayr 24 minutes later!!

Like I said before Stena aren't really interested in foot pax.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a balance between rolling stock and paths that causes the issue on this route
The timetable was quite intensive in the late 1980s, a mix of Ayr - Girvan and Glasgow - Stranraer services
In general these passed at Kilkerran Level Crossing and the dual services passed at Girvan
This results in a dreadfully erratic timetable frequency

I did a back of fag packet exercise not long ago, and there are enough passing places between Ayr and STR to run a clockface 2 hourly timetable between these points only.

However it would use more crew and unit resources than at present and therefore fails the test of being cost neutral to the status quo. Not only that but there is also the problem of blocking the through roads at Ayr whilst waiting next departure.

 

[4SRKT]

Not only that but there is also the problem of blocking the through roads at Ayr whilst waiting next departure.

Although I really doubt that blocking one of these is a problem in any sense.

 

[harz99]

Although I really doubt that blocking one of these is a problem in any sense.

Erm, the train depot is the wrong (Girvan) side of the station and there is freight traffic to consider............

 

[kylemore]

It's a real shame but I think we have to accept that the rail/ferry passenger business between Scotland and Ireland is finished.
Nobody comes out of this well, Scotrail, Stena the Scottish Govt have all conspired either through deliberate policy or incompetence or indifference to kill this traffic.
The switch of terminals cheered on by the unthinking Scottish Govt is the final nail in the coffin.
What next for the Stranraer line though?
I can't see much of a future for it, the car won the argument for local tranport needs long ago with any residual non car requirement taken care of by both local and longer distance bus services, it pains me to say it but the rail service is irrelevent

 

[phil8715]

From where I live, I have a choice because I could go Preston to Liverpool by train and catch the Liverpool to Belfast sailing that takes 7 hrs, or go from Preston to Crewe and catch the Holyhead train to Holyhead for the sailing to Dun Laghaoire or Dublin Bay, but I would then need to catch a dart to Connolly Street for the Enterprise to Belfast then the Derry or Portrush service to Ballymoney. Or go from Preston to Glasgow for the 1142 to Ayr for the coach to Loch Ryan to catch the connecting ferry to Belfast.

Or I could do the Eurolines service from Manchester to Belfast Europa Bus Station.

 

[CarterUSM]

It's a real shame but I think we have to accept that the rail/ferry passenger business between Scotland and Ireland is finished.
Nobody comes out of this well, Scotrail, Stena the Scottish Govt have all conspired either through deliberate policy or incompetence or indifference to kill this traffic.
The switch of terminals cheered on by the unthinking Scottish Govt is the final nail in the coffin.
What next for the Stranraer line though?
I can't see much of a future for it, the car won the argument for local tranport needs long ago with any residual non car requirement taken care of by both local and longer distance bus services, it pains me to say it but the rail service is irrelevent

You summed up my feelings on it perfectly.

 

[bkhtele]

From late November does anyone know if sail rail ticket London to Belfast ticket will it be still be valid from ayr to stranraer by train ignoring the Stena bus and taking a taxi stranraer to Cairnryan?

 

[harz99]

From late November does anyone know if sail rail ticket London to Belfast ticket will it be still be valid from ayr to stranraer by train ignoring the Stena bus and taking a taxi stranraer to Cairnryan?

I don't profess to know for sure; but I would think the answer is no, as the rail section of the revenue from the ticket would be for a much shorter journey to Ayr.

And if doing that method you will need to know the local taxi phone numbers or have prebooked a taxi to connect. There is not a rank at Stranraer Station. Also when on the train mobile signals are very intermittent until you reach Dunragit, some 7 minutes from Stranraer.

 

[TUC]

've been searching on-line for Rail and Sail tickets after the Cairnryan move and they're not showing tickets as available. My understanding-as reflected above-is that they would still be available, albeit by joining the coach at Ayr. Has anyone managed to buy one as yet?

 

[harz99]

've been searching on-line for Rail and Sail tickets after the Cairnryan move and they're not showing tickets as available. My understanding-as reflected above-is that they would still be available, albeit by joining the coach at Ayr. Has anyone managed to buy one as yet?

Not tried to buy one, but if you go into the Stena Line web site and find the rail/sail page it does quote for say, Belfast-GLC via the new port and coach and rail connections so try them.

 

[4SRKT]

On the Stena website after the change Rail and Sail tickets to Belfast are ONLY available from Scotland (£27 single). Travel is via Ayr, although it doesn't say you can't use the train to Stranraer and make your own arrangements. You could walk it in some cases, and on a nice day with a light backpack this would be quite pleasant.

More worryingly, there are no Rail and Sail tickets showing from Scotland to Dublin or Rosslare. The only options are Scotland > Northern Ireland or England/Wales > Republic of Ireland.

Irish Ferries SailRail tickets are still available between Dublin and all stations in GB though.

 

[harz99]

Travel is via Ayr, although it doesn't say you can't use the train to Stranraer and make your own arrangements. You could walk it in some cases, and on a nice day with a light backpack this would be quite pleasant.

I doubt many people will fancy the near 6 mile walk from Stranraer Harbour to the new terminal at Old House Point!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Travel is via Ayr, although it doesn't say you can't use the train to Stranraer and make your own arrangements.

Unlikely that the rail portion of the ticket will be valid for travel beyond Ayr though.

It would probably be safer to book rail and ferry separately if wishing to go via Stranraer.

 

[4SRKT]

I doubt many people will fancy the near 6 mile walk from Stranraer Harbour to the new terminal at Old House Point!!

I'm sure not, but I would do so on a nice day if I had a couple of hours to get from Stranraer rather than pay for a taxi and then spend ages festering. Equally, not many people, walkers or otherwise, will go via Stranraer at all after 20th Nov

 

[harz99]

I'm sure not, but I would do so on a nice day if I had a couple of hours to get from Stranraer rather than pay for a taxi and then spend ages festering. (

Aye; that may be but you made a suggestion for others and didn't mention the distance involved which is not very helpful.

There is another option of a local bus 358/360 which runs every 2 hours through most of the day and takes about 12 minutes, however as you said not many ferry pax will be using Stranraer and the train service when the new port opens.

 

[4SRKT]

Aye; that may be but you made a suggestion for others and didn't mention the distance involved which is not very helpful.

I doubt anyone will have taken it as a serious suggestion TBH. Those who know my antics will realise that I don't always do the most obvious things, in order to save money or to reduce boredom. I recently suggested someone walk from Waterloo to Euston to save some money and kill some time, and that was perfectly serious. I often walk between London terminals if I've got time (will be doing so later today, but then it's only Kings Cross to Euston........).

 

[tbtc]

Whilst reading a document recommended by DaveNewcastle, I noticed this little stat:

the average loading between Girvan and Stranraer is only 11 passengers per train (2009/10 figures) and this is likely to reduce further with the closure of the Stranraer Ferry Terminal towards the end of 2011

Page 29 - http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/publicationsdocuments/IIP Scotland.pdf

Doesn't bode too well for the future of the line...

 

[yorksrob]

Aren't the trains currently rather poorly timed for Local residents visiting the rest of Scotland though ? Surely it's worth trying to develop the local market.

 

[tbtc]

Aren't the trains currently rather poorly timed for Local residents visiting the rest of Scotland though ? Surely it's worth trying to develop the local market.

Chicken and egg, I guess.

With such low numbers, the stock is going to be based more around the needs of the Kilmarnock/ GSW part of the route.

 

[Liam]

It's such a shame to see a once major port reduced to a complete backwater. Remember up until about 20 years ago Stranraer had a direct sleeper service to Euston. The line South of Girvan will probably close within the next 10-20 years.

 

[ashworth]

Aren't the trains currently rather poorly timed for Local residents visiting the rest of Scotland though ? Surely it's worth trying to develop the local market.

The fares on the route are very expensive for local journeys. Was on holiday near Barrhill a few years ago and didn't use the line because of inconvenient timings and high fares.