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Stratford (Upon Avon) Parkway

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The Planner

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I note you use the word 'currently'. Given Freightliner's expansion plans at Southampton, happening well in advance of the electric spine/redoubling of Coventry-Leamington, where are all their trains, whatever their length, going to go? At Oxford the order in which passenger and freight trains pass through has changed over the years, so nothing to say what goes on between Birmingham and Leamington won't change either, is there?
Into the upgraded loops as in my previous post. The XC and Chiltern services have little scope to move regardless even if the freight wasn't there. Whilst it is preferable to keep class 4 trains moving you will see them sat in Bordesley, Fenny, Hatton and Dorridge a lot more. Oxford and Banbury will be re-signalled in the next 3-4 years which will benefit freight even more.

And if LM really are going to run the extra services via Dorridge, not the North Warks line, it's a regrettable step and a waste of the resignalling and the extra capacity that was provided as a result in 2010.
The re-signalling wasn't a waste, it removed equipment that was becoming life expired. Don't be fooled into thinking that a vast amount of new capacity was released down there either, it in effect only added one new signal block between Whitlocks and Henley at Wood End and extended the current 6 minute headway from Tyseley to Whitlocks End instead of Shirley where the AB used to start.
 
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Cherry_Picker

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You would also need some clever passengers, to work out which train they need to catch to get home from Birmingham. Simple, reliable, repetitive timetables work best, that's why all the Birmingham suburban lines work that way. So if you must go via Dorridge, for goodness' sake keep it on a standard pattern and keep the North Warks on a standard pattern.


If you have two routes to one station then you just label it on the front of the train. There are countless examples of where this happens on the network already. How many different routes are there from Edinburgh to Glasgow? People who live on the intermediate stations seem to manage okay.

Going back to the root of the argument, there is a case for Stratford to have an half hourly service to Birmingham all day. A town that size and that proximity to Birmingham should have really, especially when it's a tourist attraction in its own right too. Extending the North Warwicks would be great, but it would give a 20/40 minute service rather than a more evenly spaced half hourly service. Extending a Dorridge terminator would give a half hourly service. Passengers from Stratford could also get to the south via Lapworth or Dorridge (it would require five miles or so of doubling back, but again this happens quite a lot elsewhere on the network)
 

jimm

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If you have two routes to one station then you just label it on the front of the train. There are countless examples of where this happens on the network already. How many different routes are there from Edinburgh to Glasgow? People who live on the intermediate stations seem to manage okay.

Going back to the root of the argument, there is a case for Stratford to have an half hourly service to Birmingham all day. A town that size and that proximity to Birmingham should have really, especially when it's a tourist attraction in its own right too. Extending the North Warwicks would be great, but it would give a 20/40 minute service rather than a more evenly spaced half hourly service. Extending a Dorridge terminator would give a half hourly service. Passengers from Stratford could also get to the south via Lapworth or Dorridge (it would require five miles or so of doubling back, but again this happens quite a lot elsewhere on the network)

Perhaps try reading my post in the context of the post I quoted, which was suggesting some extra trains via Dorridge and some via the North Warks line, ie a muddle - which train is via which route at which time? If you have glanced at the timetable, saw there's a train at xx.30 and turn up, then discover isn't not the one going the way you want, you're not going to be a happy passenger, whatever the front of the train says - which people often don't read anyway. Not everyone out there has an intimate knowledge of the way railways work and, as I said, regular intervals rule around Birmingham, so if you must go via Dorridge then make a regular interval that way and a regular interval via Henley but not a muddle at odd intervals one way, then the other. Clear enough?

I hope a half-hourly service works, but it is going to require a pretty drastic growth in custom to wash its face financially, whichever route it uses. Some more fast trains would probably help, but the only obvious way to path those is via Henley and Shirley.

And precious few of the tourists come from the north. Having to walk between Moor Street and New Street is a pretty powerful disincentive, same applies to changing trains at Dorridge. Direct trains and minimum complications are what tourists look for, that's why BR introduced the London-Oxford-Stratford trains to follow the tourist trail, and why FGW (and perhaps other) GW franchise bidders want them back.

Don't be fooled into thinking that a vast amount of new capacity was released down there either, it in effect only added one new signal block between Whitlocks and Henley at Wood End and extended the current 6 minute headway from Tyseley to Whitlocks End instead of Shirley where the AB used to start.

Never suggested it did add a vast amount of capacity, but it didn't need to, as:
a. there is the extra block section
b. All the sections are now available for use when the line is open, whereas in the past Henley-in-Arden signalbox was switched out at times, so the section ran between Bearley junction and Shirley, which meant there was unused capacity previously, never mind now.

And if I was Freightliner I wouldn't be happy about my trains being stuck in loops all day if a dmu using the line could go another way, nor would I expect them to sit there just muttering in their beer about it.
 

Cherry_Picker

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Perhaps try reading my post in the context of the post I quoted, which was suggesting some extra trains via Dorridge and some via the North Warks line, ie a muddle - which train is via which route at which time? If you have glanced at the timetable, saw there's a train at xx.30 and turn up, then discover isn't not the one going the way you want, you're not going to be a happy passenger, whatever the front of the train says - which people often don't read anyway. Not everyone out there has an intimate knowledge of the way railways work and, as I said, regular intervals rule around Birmingham, so if you must go via Dorridge then make a regular interval that way and a regular interval via Henley but not a muddle at odd intervals one way, then the other. Clear enough?

Yes, but all of it is completely unfounded. Are you suggesting Brummies are too thick to understand Stratford via Dorridge and Stratford via Shirley or something?
 

calc7

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Perhaps try reading my post in the context of the post I quoted, which was suggesting some extra trains via Dorridge and some via the North Warks line, ie a muddle - which train is via which route at which time? If you have glanced at the timetable, saw there's a train at xx.30 and turn up, then discover isn't not the one going the way you want, you're not going to be a happy passenger, whatever the front of the train says - which people often don't read anyway. Not everyone out there has an intimate knowledge of the way railways work and, as I said, regular intervals rule around Birmingham, so if you must go via Dorridge then make a regular interval that way and a regular interval via Henley but not a muddle at odd intervals one way, then the other. Clear enough?

I don't follow.

If you are going to Stratford you probably won't care what route your train takes so can get either train.
If you are going to somewhere on the North Warks line, you will still get on the one at half past the hour.
If you are going to stations to Dorridge, you will still get on the same train as before.

I don't see how this situation is different to any other pairs of cities in the country with more than one route between them?
 

150001

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I agree with the previous two posts. Really you don't care what route the train takes. A trip from b'ham to Dorridge takes 22 minutes if missing TY and SH. Getting to Lapworth from Dorridge takes 4-5 minutes.

Then the trip to the Hatton cord would be I reckon about 5-6 minutes, then the trip calling all stations to Stratford takes 21 to 28 minutes. This would mean the trip from B'ham to Stratford would take from 52 minutes to around a hour. There isn't much difference to the North Warks route; Getting to Stratford on the North Warks is 50-55 minutes. Passengers really won't mind if they're going to Stratford which route they take. Passengers will also be clever enough to know that if they want Whitlocks End, they take the train saying "Stratford via Whitlocks End or Shirley!"
 

jimm

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I don't follow.

If you are going to Stratford you probably won't care what route your train takes so can get either train.
If you are going to somewhere on the North Warks line, you will still get on the one at half past the hour.
If you are going to stations to Dorridge, you will still get on the same train as before.

I don't see how this situation is different to any other pairs of cities in the country with more than one route between them?

What don't you follow? My objection is to trains running at random intervals by either route as suggested by 150001 in post No 29 yesterday Is that so difficult to understand? Is it so difficult to understand that virtually everything around Birmingham now runs at regular intervals and I don't wish to see some mish-mash of trains at odd times produced, which will be confusing for passengers?

And cherrypicker, what I'm suggesting is that all those regular interval services mean Brummies don't actually need to look at a timetable or what it says on the front of the train, because for most routes, there will be another train along shortly, just as Stratford line passengers know that for donkey's years it has been about 25 past the hour and so on from Stratford towards Birmingham and half past the hour from Moor Street.

Though if I am to believe several of you, then passengers are never confused and never get on the wrong train. Presumably all these never-confused passengers would be why London-bound stoppers at Oxford are shown as going to Ealing Broadway, because no-one wanting a fast journey to Paddington would ever get on a stopper, would they? As sure as night follows day, there will be people who see Stratford-upon-Avon on the screens/front of the train and that will be all they take in, whatever it then scrolls round to say next, even if they want Wood End, not Lapworth.

If there is to be running via Dorridge, fair enough, though I remain unconvinced by the claim that it will not affect main line capacity, but it must be a regular interval service, alternating as near as possible half-hourly at the Birmingham and Stratford ends with the existing services via Shirley and Henley.

The odd intervals produced by LM extending some Saturday services from Dorridge to Stratford did not produce happy results, with those trains soon dropped by LM - a real world example from this very route - and a very real reason for my concerns about what 150001 said. Do you all follow that?
 

calc7

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Let's imagine the Dorridge trains leave at 00, 20 and 40, and the Whitlocks End trains leave at 10, 30 (to S-u-A) and 50. Then extend the 00 to S-u-A and mark it clearly as Stratford via Dorridge. Regular intervals! Worst case scenario, those on the wrong train can get off and change at Tyseley for the one they want 10 minutes behind.
 

jimm

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Let's imagine the Dorridge trains leave at 00, 20 and 40, and the Whitlocks End trains leave at 10, 30 (to S-u-A) and 50. Then extend the 00 to S-u-A and mark it clearly as Stratford via Dorridge. Regular intervals! Worst case scenario, those on the wrong train can get off and change at Tyseley for the one they want 10 minutes behind.

So passengers could get make a mistake after all? And nice try, but outside the peaks, the Stratford services don't call at Tyseley (nor do some peak trains). And nor do lots of the Dorridge trains, including the xx.00 departures.
 

Jollycam

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...passengers from Solihull, Dorridge, etc. have to go into B;ham first, wait for a Stratford service and then have a long trip down through Shirley.

Is doubling back via Birmingham a valid route? Tyseley and Warwick Group are the appropriate routing points unless you get the single direct daily train.
 

150001

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It is valid I think; I've never done it but I would change at Tyseley as long as the Stratford wasn't too long after my train got in from the Chiltern mainline. Would it be possible to have those kind of times as it varies on whether trains stop at Lye etc. before Birmingham and coming from the south it could depend on the Small Heath and Tyseley stop. My only complaint at Dorridge is that there is no trains from 46 to 09, which if you miss the 46 is slightly annoying!
 

Jollycam

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I would suggest that it isn't valid. Note that the example in the routing guide stating that a Stratford to Solihull ticket is valid via Birmingham is a little out of date as Stratford Group, Tyseley and Warwick Group routing points have all been added since.

There is an easement allowing a doubleback from Birmingham Moor St if travelling to/from Tyseley, however it isn't worded to suggest that travelling beyond Tyseley activates the easement. Changing at Tyseley would be a pain though given that it's only generally served by 1tph to each line and it could actually be quicker to walk between Spring Road and Acocks Green.
 

Cherry_Picker

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Time for a bump just to report that work is now well under way. There are no structures in place yet, but you can see from the train as you go by exactly where the new station will be.
 

GazUk

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Thats one rather long ramp to get to the footbridge for wheelchair/pushchair users isn't it? Or are my eyes playing tricks on me again?
 

MidnightFlyer

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Nope, your eyes aren't! Similar exist at most new / redeveloped stations: Charlbury, Honeybourne and Kelvindale all come to mind that are well in excess of 100m.
 

GingerSte

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I believe there is a limit on the gradient the ramps can have, hence the length.

1 in 20 for normal applications, with limited availability of 1 in 12 in special circumstances (IIRC). You also need to have 1800mm (minimum) landings every 6m (again, IIRC), for people in wheelchairs who get tired.

For a typical footbridge, allowing 5 metres change of height, you need 100 metres of ramp, and 15 landings (excl top and bottom), giving 127 metres of ramp. That's at each side of the footbridge so call it 250 metres of ramp in total.
 

SprinterMan

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Nope, your eyes aren't! Similar exist at most new / redeveloped stations: Charlbury, Honeybourne and Kelvindale all come to mind that are well in excess of 100m.

Whitlock's End and Prestatyn also have them, useful they may be, but by god they look bizarre.

Adam :D
 

jimm

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It gets round DDA compliance without the whole life costs of providing lifts!

And most of the places they are used, eg Stratford Parkway, Charlbury, Honeybourne, are semi-rural, so lift towers would stick out like a sore thumb in the landscape - Charlbury is in an AONB.

PS: Sprinterman, Whitlocks End has a series of ramps at ground level which come down from a road bridge over the line, not one of these footbridges.
http://www.shakespeareline.com/images/whitlocks_end_station1_v.jpg
 

GazUk

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Hi all

I used the parkway station yesterday to travel into Stratford town itself, there were loads of car park spaces there (my car was the only one there!) access to the station is not too bad as I can testify to as I was pushing my son about in his buggy.
The only gripe was it is an un-maned station, no ticket kiosk but there are oyster type scanning type thingys and there is 1 ticket machine, which typically was out if order and there was no other place to buy one from, did ring LM up to ask what to do and they said to buy a ticket off the conductor when boarding, it's only a 4 min journey from the parkway station into Stratford and was I approached by anyone asking to see my tickets or buy some? The answer is no, and there are no gateline staff or barriers at Stratford upon Avon!
 

tsr

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The answer is no, and there are no gateline staff or barriers at Stratford upon Avon!

That doesn't mean you shouldn't attempt to buy a ticket at the destination. I presume there was some way of doing so at Stratford UA?

I'm not saying you didn't pay, mind! Also, I do agree that it's disappointing that there's just one TVM.
 

Gathursty

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Stratford Parkway looked quite pristine on Friday at about midday, very quiet except for the workmen installing cycle rails.
 

GazUk

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That doesn't mean you shouldn't attempt to buy a ticket at the destination. I presume there was some way of doing so at Stratford UA?

I'm not saying you didn't pay, mind! Also, I do agree that it's disappointing that there's just one TVM.

Tickets were sorted out on arrival, but honestly we could of travelled between the 2 stations without tickets and no one would of been any wiser! Regarding the ticket machine when i spoke to the gent of the phone at LM i did say it was a pretty poor show that there was only one machine, i did scour the station for another,but there wasn't one! And just for reference (unless they are all like it!) the machine only accepts card payments and nothing else, i am sure the ones at VT stations allow you to use cash!

Regarding the footbridge, i said a few posts back i thought it looked pretty long, and i've got to say its not too bad at all,tis easy getting up,over and down again :)
 

pt_mad

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Went through the station by train on Saturday, and only one car there!!! Nobody got on or off :D


Is the station aimed at capturing A46 traffic or Stratford - Bham customers who wish to park outside the town?
 
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